[alex111683]

What have been your guys' experience when buying very proven pairs in terms of them breeding when you got them? I have heard that once PDFs start breeding they shouldn't be moved. I am more interested in the dendrobates species perticularly tincs. But any insight would be appreciated.

 

[motydesign]

I bought a pair of proven escudos, and I haven't even heard a chirp in the month I've had them. I am not invading their privacy, and trying to be patient. That being said it's hard to know if you are getting a pair? And if you KNOW and seen for your self, I've moved a pair from a tank on 6/15 and I now have a froglet oow in the new tank yesterday

 

[Markw]

I bought a proven group of vittatus. 5.5.0. They only took about a month or so to throw their first clutch. I had calling within a week. I don't know if this is abnormal, ut that's my only experience on the subject.

Mark

 

[davidadelp]

I bought a very proven pair of azureus about a month ago and havent gotten any eggs, seen any mating behaviors or calling. It is aggervating i do know that!! but patients is what is key i guess which i have very little of lol

 

[Julio]

Tincts usually take a few months to settle down.

Pumilios usually will breed within a week of being in a new tank if conditions are right.

 

[Zoomie]

The Leucs took 6 weeks to lay after being moved three times due to an enclosure failure. They are a young pair that had only thrown 4 clutches previously.

The Bakhuis won't be here for two more weeks so I can't speak about them.

 

[billschwinn]

Something to keep in mind , just because a pair breeds for one owner does not mean they will breed for another. These are live animals and not machines, keep that in mind.

 

[PeanutbuttER]

Okay, so not a proven pair. However, I did buy a proven male to put in with a previously suspected female azureus. Calling within maybe 2 minutes of being together and eggs within a matter of days. I bought the male locally from another frogger kind enough to part with him, which may make a difference since there was no shipping stress.

 

[Dizzle21]

Bought a probable pair of Bakhuis from proven group when i went to pick them up at the pomona reptile show they had already laid a clutch in the cup they were in but turned out to be infertile. put them in a temporary 18x18x18 exo for 2-3 weeks nothing. just placed them in a 10g this week and have had 2 clutches of eggs so far. 2 clutches in a week. also im running my mister more often so the tank is staying more moist compared to the exo.

 

[joshsfrogs]

The barometric change from shipping can jump start or stop breeding.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[illinoisfrogs]

I'd add this caveat as well, if the "Proven Pair" is several years old, they may be not producing anymore, and unscrupulous people will sell them off as "proven". If you really want proven pairs, a very reliable source is Patrick Nabors at saurian.net

 

[MSteele]

i have had mixed results,,, i had a proven pair of cobalts that never laid for me and i had a proven female introduced to my male and on the same day i had eggs. and the eggs were all good, i think i have close to 8-0 tads off these guys to date.

 

[DCreptiles]

Iv purchased proven pairs in the past and some have bred for me like clock work and some have not. I always ask to see photos of their previous set up. I noticed that if the frogs come from a tank that is larger, wetter, and has more cover and moves into a much less elaborate enclosure they will be unhappy with the conditions and put a hold on breeding. Once discovering that my set up might be a bit to simple for them I change some things around sometimes add or subtract something to copy their previous conditions and they start right up.

i think its all about reaching a level of comfort and happiness. if something isn't broken don't fix it.

 

[Steve88W]

My pair of Azureus from Patrick Nabors started breeding within an hour of being introduced to their new tank.
First clutch was fertile! (3 morphed out)

 

[NVfrogger]

I purchased a proven pair waited and waited never heard any calling or saw any eggs. Months later I put another male in the tank and the "proven pair" tuned out to be two females, now isn't that just amazing?

 

[Dartfrogfreak]

While I personally have never bought a proven pair before,Ill back up some things that other people have said.

Quote from Bill Schwinn
Something to keep in mind , just because a pair breeds for one owner does not mean they will breed for another. These are live animals and not machines, keep that in mind.
I agree with differences in setup including temps and humidity plus feedings. Just because they breed for one person doesnt mean they will definitely breed for the next

Quote from Julio
Tincts usually take a few months to settle down.

I agree here. Dendrobates tinctorius can take some time to settle. Especially the females.
That said I had a pair drop a clutch the same day I brought them home.

Quote from Lincolnrailers
I'd add this caveat as well, if the "Proven Pair" is several years old, they may be not producing anymore, and unscrupulous people will sell them off as "proven". If you really want proven pairs, a very reliable source is Patrick Nabors at saurian.net
I disagree with this to a point.
For the most part dart frogs will breed till up until they die. HOWEVER....they may not breed well. They may lay less eggs and less often.
Also to my knowledge. Patrick does not sell proven pairs unless he has changed that?


Todd

 

[GregF]

I also got a "sexed" pair of tincs from Patrick Nabors at Saurian. They were courting the same day I added them to my new viv. But I'd imagine it depends on a lot of factors...shipping trauma, viv conditions, feeding, etc...

 

[frogmanroth]

Something to keep in mind , just because a pair breeds for one owner does not mean they will breed for another. These are live animals and not machines, keep that in mind.

Yeah, I have had some for 3 years and no breeding(real sad face)Have another nice pair almost 15 months later got 1 froglet. Some may never breed for you. Doesn't mean jack though, there are some things we just can't always provide.

 

[holidayhanson]

I paid a pretty penny 5 years ago for a proven pair of azureus from a very reputable breeder. The two frogs were very distinctly different in body shape and they certainly spent many days together in the coco hut and chasing each other around. They just never seemed to produce eggs and only rarely could I hear the male calling.

A few weeks ago I noticed my female was acting strange. I watched her closely and discovered she was calling.... She is a he I guess.

So, before you shell out the big bucks, understand there is a difference between "proven" and "sexed" pairs.

 

[tclipse]

I purchased a proven pair waited and waited never heard any calling or saw any eggs. Months later I put another male in the tank and the "proven pair" tuned out to be two females, now isn't that just amazing?

I paid a pretty penny 5 years ago for a proven pair of azureus from a very reputable breeder. The two frogs were very distinctly different in body shape and they certainly spent many days together in the coco hut and chasing each other around. They just never seemed to produce eggs and only rarely could I hear the male calling.

A few weeks ago I noticed my female was acting strange. I watched her closely and discovered she was calling.... She is a he I guess.

So, before you shell out the big bucks, understand there is a difference between "proven" and "sexed" pairs.

Situations like that are one of the few topics that really get me legitimately pissed in this hobby.

Those are things I would personally give negative vendor feedback for if the seller didn't fix it ASAP (obviously you guys couldn't, just speaking in general). A proven pair is a proven pair and stuff like this really irks me.... it's COMPLETELY shady and really is a huge load of BS. Even if the seller did compensate me, I still wouldn't buy anything from that person again and would make it a point to share the story liberally.

Pretty much the only thing that isn't 100% lying is when two frogs are taken from a proven group and sexed- but then they shouldn't be advertised as a proven pair, so it's still utterly weak sauce and still deserves compensation IMO.

Buying a probable pair is a different issue, as there is room for discretion & error..... in "proven pair" cases, it's total dishonesty and bad business practice.

When buying proven pairs, I personally think holding off on feedback until you're convinced they are at least male/female is the way to go. If the seller was truthful, he gets his positive feedback anyways, albeit with a bit of a delay. If he lied, he loses quite a bit of business. It's one of the few ways (along with spreading the news) we can combat indecency and the selfish idiots who feel like they can get away with it.

As sad as it is to say, without incentives for doing right and punishments for doing wrong, there will always be some bad apples out there ready to backstab a fellow hobbyist for a few extra bucks. F*** that, and shame on the fools who pull crap like that.