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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Picked up a sexed adult pair of Azureus last weekend from LLL reptile, and sent in fecals to be examined by Dr. Frye, and they came back with Coccidia. I'm really disappointed, but very glad I quarantine all new purchases. The shop won't give me a refund even though I bought them 5 days ago, but they're going to buy them back for wholesale. I don't know really whether to be pleased that I'm getting some money back or upset that they're knowingly buying frogs for resale that have Coccidia.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm sure you're aware that Coccidia isn't curable in darts, and several types of it are fatal. I really don't feel like owning frogs, especially breeding adults, that carry that kind of disease burden. And I certainly don't want to take the chance of introducing that to the rest of my collection that are all completely healthy.
 
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This is horrible. Are they wanting the frogs back to test themselves or for resale? If they want them back for resale then we as hobbiest need to take action and let other people know. Either way they should give you a full refund. This attitude pisses me off. You should post this on every forum you know.
 

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I wonder, if this purchase was made via Charge Card, if a case could be made for purchasing a "defective product" and asking the credit card company to reverse the charges?

s
 

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If these frogs have it, their whole collection might be infected. This is another instance where a fecal exam has saved an entire collection and these aren’t even W/C or Farmed. What concerns me the most is that they want the frogs back. The frogs should be destroyed or sent to a lab for studies. Sorry about your loss. Call your credit card company and try to get the charges reversed and report them to the better business bureau.

-Blake
 

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Well I thankfully have never had coccidia in my darts but I think that coccidia may be treatable in darts. Walker and Whitaker (Dr from NAIB) post the use of this drug in their therapeutics for use in amphibians. They use the same treatment in cats and dogs as they do in amphibians. Trimethoprim/sulfamethozalone can be given orally every day to every other day for up to 3 weeks. I have never talked to the dr. frye about this matter but i remember reading a post on kingsnake in which rich frye posted to check with the vet and he thought to treat every other day...or something along those lines. Coccidia can burden a frog tremendously but I would check with dr. frye again because the trimeth-sulfa may be an option for you. Hope this helps.

Ryan
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
They bought the frogs back from me for half of what I had paid. They have a policy of not refunding purchases of amphibians, but I think these can be considered pretty extenuating circumstances. I'm going to wait a few days and see if they go back up for sale in the shop. If so, I'll be filing a complaint with the BBB, and I'll definitely be posting this elsewhere.
 

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Dane, I am so sorry to hear that. Let me see if I understand this, you bought diseased frogs for a retail price, but they are offering to take them back for wholesale as if they were buying them from you initially????
You would think that they would offer your money back and then some just to try to get you to keep your mouth shut. Man that is bad, Scott has a good recommendation, give it a try. But it does not always work. Luckily as Blake said you had them tested, because there are still a lot of people who do not.

Ryan, Wright and Whitaker (Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry) post that the animals treated with Trimethoprim sulfamethozalone daily for 7 - 14 days improved clinically but the infection was still found on subsequent necropsy. My book is over a year old so maybe some more progress has been made with this treatment since then. I thought that once an animal was infected they could be treated but it never went away, plus the enclosure was contaminated and had to be disinfected with a bleach solution. Basically I thought once you got it in your collection the animals were done, and the primary concern was stopping it from hitting the rest of you frogs, but again I could be wrong.
Ed
 

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Ed and Dane-

I believe what Ryan said was that " coccidia may be treatable in darts," and it is. There is a difference between treatable and curable. The drugs listed will suppress the Coccidia but not cure it. I have unfortunately dealt with this parasite in the past with chameleons. It is contagious, and measures should be kept not to infect others, however in treating, I was able to suppress symptoms enough so that the chameleon actually lived out a normal life cycle. Just wanted to clear things up..Ryan can correct me if I am wrong. Unfortunately I bet you if everyone ran fecals on their frogs they would be surprised to find that many may harbor parasites. They can come in on food items, soil from plants, the plants themselves, and from imported frogs. I would be a bit upset as well, but honestly am surprised that they even bought the frogs back. I had a negative transaction with a company in CA who actually sent me the wrong chameleons and they refused to do anything ( I had my credit card put a stop payment and things turned out in my favor)...Good Luck!
 

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That is what Dane should be doing - assuming it was a credit card trx.

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AQUAMAC said:
... I had a negative transaction with a company in CA who actually sent me the wrong chameleons and they refused to do anything ( I had my credit card put a stop payment and things turned out in my favor)...Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Yes, LLL is a Ca. based retail store, both of their locations are about 20 min from me, and I will certainly be pursuing this further. I wasn't aware that there was an actual criminal code in place to prevent this kind of thing, but that's major ammunition I can use. Hopefully I'll have time this weekend to stop by and see if the frogs have gone up for resale. I'm sure I'm just as upset about this as anyone. With the possibilty of potential transferrence to the rest of my collection from wandering fruit flies, I'm going to have to flush 3 vent tads that had dead flies in their cups, and get everything screened individually for Coccidia in a few weeks.
 

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I believe that parasite loads and other junk that is found in our collections is the hobbies dirty little secret ! I have been testing all of my collection for a few weeks and I'm rather displeased w/ the results . I keep a uber clean frog room and wash between tanks ect.. Almost all have somthing !!
Alot of frogs have been purchased from rather big breeders and guess what , they all have somthing . To say the least I 'm shocked ! I believe that as hobbiest that we start to demand tests on all purchases . But that is a pipe dream . I personally know of lots of keepers that really do not want to know and believe that a breeding happy frog is a good one . But would you as a responcible hobbiest pass on a frog to another if you know that somthing is wrong w/ the frog . As for that reason we a stuards of these rare spiecies should do what we can to insure overall health and not pass it on to others or atleast inform them of the negitive impact that could possibly be spred to their collection.
Quarantten procedures are fine and compleatly nessary but I think a responcible breeder should be informed and inform the buyers .
I really fear a backlash from saying that my own collection has but is being treated for parasites but in the future I will test treat all frogs leaving my room bound for others or at the very least inform .
Other breeders will probally think that I am going a little over kill but woulden't you be pissed if what happened to Dane happend to you ?The sad fact is it probally has you just don't know it yet !
Dr. Frye just tryed to point this out a year or so ago and look what happened to him . If we demand that our frogs are tested and sick frogs are not cycled throughout we will inturn raise the standards to a new level . I believe it would be for the positive for us and husbandry our practices .
Thoughts ?
Darren Meyer
 
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