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I would follow those TSA instructions, except the "talk to the airline" part. They do not need to know I am carrying live harmless tropical frogs on their plane.
 

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Phase panels used this time of year would have to be in the liquid phase. I'm pretty sure than any Phase change materials will be confiscated and disposed of.
You can only have 3.4 oz of liquid and I'm pretty sure the .4 is an allowance for the container, which means 3 oz of ANY liquid, paste, or gel. (We had a small size jar of peanut butter which was confiscated.)
A Phase 22 gel pack has approximately 6 ozs of liquid, and a Phase 22 panel has approximately 10 or 11 ozs of liquid. Both are too large and will be taken.

I like the idea of bringing empty bottles and a thermometer. After checking through TSA, fill the bottles with water set to about 75 degrees, and put it all into a cooler or insulated box. You could also just wrap it all in clothing for insulation and put in into your carry on bag.
 

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I would follow those TSA instructions, except the "talk to the airline" part. They do not need to know I am carrying live harmless tropical frogs on their plane.
I agree. If the species is legal, and TSA has cleared them as not being any sort of security risk, I would not mention it to the airline. Fill your legal and safety requirements and that should be all that is necessary.
 

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Thanks Brian! That seems like it should be too difficult just take them out of the carry on and go through metal detector. I will have to maybe print off what you said from the TSA website so that I can have it on me if they question it.

I've been talking with a TSA rep at my work about this issue. Does anybody know how many oz of liquid is in the phase panels/packs and if any of it is considered hazardous? Basically it has to fall under the 3-1-4 LGA policy (Liquids, Gels & Aerosols). I'll copy/paste it below:



And this is the current TSA regs on traveling with pets:



You should also check with an airline rep first to see if they have any sort of prohibitive policy as well. Still trying to get in touch with another rep to check on a few other things...kinda hard to get a direct answer from them...even talking to them face to face :p
 

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I agree. If the species is legal, and TSA has cleared them as not being any sort of security risk, I would not mention it to the airline. Fill your legal and safety requirements and that should be all that is necessary.
Would you carry any type of paperwork as proof the frogs are legal?
 

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Would you carry any type of paperwork as proof the frogs are legal?
No, TSA will not look into whether or not they are legal. They will be concerned about safety. It is simply our responsibility not to attempt smuggling illegal animals.
If we abide by the law, and allow TSA to do their thing and make sure there is no national threat, then that should be enough to fulfill our legal requirements.
 
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Maybe you could pack them with some fruit flies for thermal mass. I few months ago I took a fruit fly culture home with me. The TSA had to run in through separately. I warned here that it was maggots and flies so she didn't freak out.

My mom has worked for the TSA since it started so if you have any specific questions (phase panels etc) I can ask her.

As for the Airline, from what I can tell you are not allowed to bring anything other than approved animals on the plane. If for some reason they find out you have frogs (from calling etc) then they can force you to leave them. I am sure they would never notice but just be aware that there is a very slight chance you could lose all your frogs.
 

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I have never seen airlines doing carry on checks. I have seen TSA doing checks at the airline gate. That would suck since you'd probably have to take the frogs out in front of airline's staff.

... just be aware that there is a very slight chance you could lose all your frogs.
I wouldn't say that. I would say there is a chance of you spending more money than you originally intending to - you can send them via Cargo.
 

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I agree. If the species is legal, and TSA has cleared them as not being any sort of security risk, I would not mention it to the airline. Fill your legal and safety requirements and that should be all that is necessary.
I am going to bring up the point that if you purchased the frogs and are transporting them or are taking them to sell, you are engaging in interestate commerce and the Lacey Act comes into play.....

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Ed
 

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I am going to bring up the point that if you purchased the frogs and are transporting them or are taking them to sell, you are engaging in interestate commerce and the Lacey Act comes into play.....

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Ed
Does that mean I can "legally" only buy frogs in California, where I reside?

§ 3372. Prohibited acts

It is unlawful for any person--

(2) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce--
What loopholes have people found in order to do things legally?
 

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I am going to bring up the point that if you purchased the frogs and are transporting them or are taking them to sell, you are engaging in interestate commerce and the Lacey Act comes into play.....

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Ed
The TSA nor the airlines care about the Lacey Act. It not in their jurisdiction unless its called upon. And 99.9% of TSA agents dont know what Lacey even is.
 

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No, as long as you are purchasing legally aquired frogs... It is only illegal to transport them if
1) you are failing to correctly mark the box etc
2) you are purchasing frogs that were smuggled or otherwise illegal (like castenoticus)
3) are meeting the requirments of California to transport wildlife into or out of the state (if there are any)

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If any of you have concerns or questions about flying with frogs send me a pm - I work for tsa and just helped a member recently who was taking some frogs with him to the east coast. All liquids and gels and aerosols are allowed to size limit of "3.4" fl. ounces. not 4, not 5, not 10. We have some exceptions but not when it comes to transporting animals. - Please don't stick your frogs in the x-ray. The x-ray is very gnarly and wouldn't send any animals through it.


Anything asking about pat downs and other procedures I'm ignoring. I'm only answering your questions about the frogs since I don't want to see or hear of them going through an x-ray.
 

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The TSA nor the airlines care about the Lacey Act. It not in their jurisdiction unless its called upon. And 99.9% of TSA agents dont know what Lacey even is.
While it isn't in thier jurisdiction...if something does happen it is going to be under federal jurisdiction which means a greater chance that USFW will end up being involved then you are looking at significant potential fines and jail time for failing to comply.

Simply mark the carry on container with live harmess frogs and carry an invoice inside of it. Small amount of precaution to be be safe.

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While it isn't in thier jurisdiction...if something does happen it is going to be under federal jurisdiction which means a greater chance that USFW will end up being involved then you are looking at significant potential fines and jail time for failing to comply.

Ed
For you folks who don't believe Ed - guess what he's right. If your prepared for a very unpleasant time and nasty fines, I would do just as he said. I have a few friends in USFW that always tell me of what people tried to sneak on board. 1/2 those stories end with jail time.
 

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I am going to bring up the point that if you purchased the frogs and are transporting them or are taking them to sell, you are engaging in interestate commerce and the Lacey Act comes into play.....

Some comments

Ed
Thanks, Ed. I did not realize the Lacey Act still applied if transporting in person, rather than shipping them.
 

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Thanks, Ed. I did not realize the Lacey Act still applied if transporting in person, rather than shipping them.
Any form of interstate commerce if it crosses... or import/export... sales, purchase, barters, trade.... the whole schmear

Ed
 

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I asked this question to a neighbor who works for Shenandoah Valley Reginal Airport security. He doesn't work for the TSA but works with them and his response was that it was up to the TSA agent who is checking you.

Basically he said if you are a belligerent person, you're gonna have issues. If you are up front with them and not suspicious, they'll let you through as they are ultimately concerned with the passenger safety.

His opinion is that most TSA agents won't bother with frogs but if they were snakes you probably wont be let on the plane, most likely because of the stereotypes people get from snakes.

Bottom line is package them correctly so they can be easily checked if needed, and allow nothing to make someone nervous. I agree with the "dont tell the airline" statement. Once you get past the TSA, they don't need to know.
 
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