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Discussion Starter #1
I figure I'd make a new thread on this very topic.... basically a continuation from the pumilio morph discussion.

I would like to start a new discussion on which dart frogs breeding lines can be mixed and which ones should not be mixed...

Correct me if I am wrong but species like imitator which locality is from a small region is basically one natural morph/line and different breeder's breeding lines can be "interbreed".

However, what do you think about ventrimaculatus? There are several locality data: Peru and Brazil. Mixing different breeder's breeding lines could create, what Randy said, "mutts" or "pet grade" (was: "hobbyist strain").

I guess I would like to know what people opinions on that...


SB
 

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There are also French Guyana Vents (though that might be the Brazil Vent).

I've wondered the same thing (which lines can be "mixed") on the Vents.

The two basic variants I've seen are the Grey Leg vs the Blue Leg. I wonder if that translates to the locality.

I've also seen another type of Peruvian Vent that in no way could be mistaken for the type of Vents we're talking about here.

s
 

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If you guys can figure this one out, I'd be thrilled. I question the blue legs/ gray legs thing though. I got a couple girls from Scott many years ago and many people who saw them or saw pictures asked me where I got the beautiful blue-legged vents and I heard lots of comments about how blue the legs are. Sorry to say but one of the girls has gone to the great beyond but the other survives and has the prettiest gray legs. I'm sure it was the Scott mystique that gave her the beautiful blue legs and I don't have that special touch. Anyway, even if there were some genetic differences between populations and leg color, I'm inclined to believe that age or husbandry can modify the color enough that it isn't a good diagnostic tool.... dang it. Oh, and these are the "French Guiana" that I've also heard are suspected as actually being Brazilian. Regardless, many of the "lines" were originally labeled as French Guiana and my suspicion is that they've already been pretty well mixed up. However, I've also heard some people guess that some problems with getting pairs to breed could be caused by a mismatch of frogs from different populations. That's hearsay as far as I'm concerned but, if true, could mean that the frogs have managed to keep their lines true despite our mismanagement.

I was interested to see "hobbyist strain" used to indicate a substandard line. I would argue that all of our frogs are hobbyist grade or less. To me, a hobbyist grade frog is one that retains enough wild characteristics that we can't distinguish them from wild caught frogs (which includes having no knowledge of genetic pollution or selective breeding in the line) but these frogs lack sufficient locality data to make them suitable for conservation breeding. In other words, we might have a good idea where they came from but we can't pinpoint the location with certainty. Another requirement of a conservation grade frog would be documentation of the frogs complete pedigree to verify that it has derived from genetically pure stock without selective breeding. And finally, the lowest grade would be "pet grade" which could be mutts, hybrids, designer lines or what have you. So is "hobbiest strain" being commonly used to indicate substandard lines?
 

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My bad... in killiefish world, they use "aquarium strain" for naming fish with no collection data or even hybrid...

I guess I meant to say "pet grade"...
 

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steelcube said:
My bad... in killiefish world, they use "aquarium strain" for naming fish with no collection data or even hybrid...

I guess I meant to say "pet grade"...
Well I'm not sure my use of the term "hobbyist grade" is the best either since not all hobbyists are concerned about maintaining wild types.
 
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