Dendroboard banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys Im brand new to the forum and fairly new to frog keeping, though I've kept reef tanks for a long time so I am familiar with the level of care required to keep a healthy miniature ecosystem. Im actually breaking down an sps tank atm in order to start a 65 gallon pdf viv. I know that most froggers are against keeping diff species in the same viv. but I have read several testimonies of people keeping auratus and variabalis together in larger vivariums.

I would like to keep a pair of variablis and a pair of bronze auratus in the 65 gal. If this is a really bad idea please let me know. If I cant do this then I would be happy with 4 variabalis. I plan on getting mated pairs either way to minimize female-female or male-male aggression.

Am I way off base thinking I could mix the two species? I would keep them in 20L's in pairs but I have the tank already and I really want to do a larger viv. I know mixing morphs is really frowned upon in this hobby but I really want some different colors in the tank and I dont plan on selling juvs anyway so diluting the bloodlines isnt really a concern to me.


Please Please Please help me out here. This is going to be a long term project and I am in no rush to get the frogs. I am going to plant the viv. seed with springtails and wait until moss has covered the ghostwood and the tank is well cycled before adding frogs. I would really like to get some different colors in the tank whether its a mix of species or morphs. variabalisAt the end of the day all i care about is that the frogs are healthy and the vivarium does well, so if that means just keeping a single species then so be it.

Thanks in advance! I look forward to being a part of this community and this fascinating hobby!
 

· Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks thats good to know...

What about variabalis with ventrimaculata? Its my understanding that the latter is more arboreal and with a heavily planted 65 gal i think an established pair of each should have room to claim their own territories right? Im looking to get mated pairs to reduce the likelihood of crossbreeding, but since this is my first foray into thumbnails I wanna do it right.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm not looking to start a fight or even a debate on the viability of mixing species... if its a bad idea i wont do it.

I am a beginner when it comes to keeping pdf's, but I learn fast and Im comfortable taking on a challange provided theres information to be had, but I also dont want to bite off more than i can chew.

Would a group of imitators be better to start of with than variabilis? It seems like there is a great deal of intrapopulational variation with imitator sp. which would give me the different colors I am looking for and I have heard they do well in groups... any thoughts on say 4-6 imitators in a 65 gal?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Bryan thanks for all the info. Even in my reef I only keep species from australia so I'm really not a fan of just slamming different species together from all over the place... Ill def look into pumillio. Is it just Bastimentos than can be kept together or is it all the different morphs of pumillio that can be kept together? I wouldnt plan on rearing the young anyway, so I assumed most would be eaten.

The more I read, the more I find myself drawn to imitator sp. They seem like a bold, active frog and the colors of the Tarapoto are near indistinguishable from variabilis (close enough for me anyway). There seems to be a lot of intrapopulation variation in the Chazuta and Varadero strains. I plan on getting the frogs from understory and Im sure if i asked them for some different varients of the same strain they would be willing to oblige. Is it possible to keep different regional variations of imitator sp. together or would it lead to the same hybridization issues? It seems as though the origin of many of the imitators available today is a little blurry anyway.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
James-

What I waas getting at is that cetain lines of imitator seem to have a lot of variation within that line ie. Varadero, chazuta etc.

So if I wanted to keep a tank of 4-6 Varadero it is possible that those frogs will not be identical. I have a pair of cobalt tincs atm and although I was assured by the guys at black jungle that they are both suriname cobalt tincs they look quite diff. from one another.

as far as thumbs go would imitator sp. be a good species to start with? I have no problem keeping a group from a single lineage, Id just choose a lineage that has some variation within that regional morph.

I understand the desire of hobbyists to preserve regional strains from the point of view of maintaining genetics for sale/trade purposes, but I dont understand the moral arguement I saw mentioned. It is extremely unlikely that any of the frogs bred in the US will ever make there way back to the wilds of South America and even less likely they would survive.

The only true moral arguement would be for leaving these frogs in the jungle where they can breed and pass on their genetics or die as nature sees fit. Any breeding facilitated by man is a perversion of of evolution. Frogs that would probably have died in the wild for w/e reason be it a genetic defect that makes them more vulnerable to predation, or disease, or interspecies competition etc survive and pass along their dna in captivity distorting the natural processes that determine a species' evolutionary path.

Obviously noone on this site can really make that arguement since all of us keep these frogs in glass boxes isolated and thousands of miles from their point of origin, but I do understand from a collector's point of view why you would want to preserve a lineage, but its not for some altruistic purpose, its for the same reason that you dont stick a mickey mantle rookie card in your bicycle spokes!


so anyway lol... are imitator sp. good thumbs to start off with?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
WOW James!!! Thanks thats exactly what I was looking for. Now the trick is going to be finding the different varients and verifying their provinance.

Do you know anyone actively breeding them?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Looking at all the different huallaga variants and just how different they are, I would be willing to bet that there was some sort of human intervention that played a role there (i.e. a smuggler lost a crate of misc. frogs in the canyon). The fact that the variation applies not only to color but to pattern as well points to some kind of hybridization. But, if all pdf hobbyists are concerned with is protecting regional variation, and I can gaurantee that the frogs I get are from huallaga, then they are exactly what Im looking for


Thank you very much for bringing this strain to my attention... Theyre perfect for what I would like to do.

Btw I am an evolutionary anthropologist, which is why I find all this talk of lineage and variation so fascinating
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top