[Taron]

I am curious if any one is currently working with any species of atelopus? I am not interested in acquiring them just curious how people are housing them and what breeding has occured if any. I know several zoos have bred them with ease.

Thks in advance
Taron

 

[Ed]

The ones the Zoos have bred "easily" were hand collected and handled in a way to allow for maximal care and minimal stress on the animals so case is in no way appliciable to the ones we get in the hobby at this time. This appears to have made a huge amount of difference compared to the ones that come in through the pet trade. The ones that have come in through the pet trade are extremely male heavy (ratios of more than 10 to 1 are not uncommon), typically have little or not fat reserves (sufficient to handle completing egg deposition successfully), and often look like thier face was run through a cheese grater. If you are really really lucky you may stabilize half the frogs you get which means you may have to purchase 30 toads to get one stable female. It can take more than six months to fully stabilize the toads and even then the females are prone to prolapsing the eggs and dieing during cycling or retaining the eggs and dieing.. so in reality you need to aquire even more to try and get a stable female...

Ed

 

[JoshH]

I kept several species in the past and can definately attest to what Ed is saying about the "cheese grater" look...it seems the hardest part is getting ahold of properly handled toads. I have no doubt that many could be successfully worked with by experienced keepers now, esp since vivarium habitat recreation is much better then it was ten to twenty years ago.

Atelopus spumarious/hoogmoedi - recieved 10, only 4 or 5 arrived alive, had them for many months, all males that came in in horrible condition. Eventually died out, but did pretty well considering how they came in.

Atelopus balios - Received two, which I believe may have been an actual pair. Came in with minimal to no damage in an Ecuadorian fish/amphib shipment, possibly under a Peruvian document, these did well for several months, however the tank was likely kept too wet at the time as they always hung out at the top and "basked" under the light. Definately did not seem to mind the heat...but with no information on species, source, or captive care I didnt exactly have alot to work with in terms of setting them up.

Worked with Atelopus zeteki briefly at a public institution, wild caught confescated specimens were highly stressed and quickly perished, captive born and longterm captive toads were quite the opposite and actually pretty hardy.

 

[Ed]

Atelopus spumarious/hoogmoedi - recieved 10, only 4 or 5 arrived alive, had them for many months, all males that came in in horrible condition. Eventually died out, but did pretty well considering how they came in.

The last male I had I understand is still doing well in his new home.. Thier long term survivial really depends on how they come in and then are acclimated. I spent almost a year acclimating the ones I got.

Atelopus balios - Received two, which I believe may have been an actual pair. Came in with minimal to no damage in an Ecuadorian fish/amphib shipment, possibly under a Peruvian document, these did well for several months, however the tank was likely kept too wet at the time as they always hung out at the top and "basked" under the light. Definately did not seem to mind the heat...but with no information on species, source, or captive care I didnt exactly have alot to work with in terms of setting them up.

Locality can be important as both on the population and species levels may come from dry forests or wetter forests. This determines how they need to be kept. For example A. spumarius is found in drier upland forests and only descends to the streams to breed.

Worked with Atelopus zeteki briefly at a public institution, wild caught confescated specimens were highly stressed and quickly perished, captive born and longterm captive toads were quite the opposite and actually pretty hardy .

Even the original collected animals were hardy.. One pair produced fertile eggs during the plane flight back into the US.

Ed

 

[Taron]

Sounds like a project amphibian.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[stemcellular]

The last male I had I understand is still doing well in his new home.. Thier long term survivial really depends on how they come in and then are acclimated. I spent almost a year acclimating the ones I got.



Ed

Yup, he is a happy, fat, little fella.

 

[Ben E]

just happened to notice that some folks are listing "spumarius" for sale again....a little bit pricier than what they used to cost.

 

[stemcellular]

where are you seeing them listed?

 

[edwing206]

They're on kingsnake Ray.

 

[Tony]

where are you seeing them listed?

kingsnake.com Classifieds: Atelopus Spumarius(Harlequin toads) First Legal imports from Suriname!

 

[stemcellular]

FINALLY! haha

 

[stemcellular]

I'm going to be working out a group order for those interested in working with this species. PM me if interested.

 

[ghettopieninja]

just happened to notice that some folks are listing "spumarius" for sale again....a little bit pricier than what they used to cost.

I have noticed this as well, will try to get the source tonight or tomorrow. I emailed Dutch Rana recently as they import them from time to time in Suriname shipments inquiring about their condition upon arrival, sex ratios, etc. They said that the animals usually came in in fine condition with little in the way of injuries/rubs but they had problems with Pseudomonas infections but with treatment they have lost very few after several imports. They also said they have produced eggs and tadpoles but as of yet no froglets. I have worked with zeteki and various in Panama and the US and can attest to their hardiness and usual willingness to breed, especially with zeteki. I have also worked with limosus (2 forms) and glyphus. I have observed amplexus from both but nothing more. I do know that limosus froglets were recently produced however. I would be very interested in perusing the possible availability of spumarius (as well as barbotini).

 

[ghettopieninja]

wow with in the time it took me to write my reply this kingsnake business popped up. cool!

 

[stemcellular]

PM me. I'm working out a deal for a large order in the hope of a captive management program.

 

[Ben E]

I have worked with these little guys a bit both in my private collection and at ABG. They are not easy to get to breed after they have been in captivity for a couple years. Lots of amplexing even lots of clutches of infertile eggs. We had some partial fertilization and resulting tads seemed weak to me when compared to zeteki. I have spent a lot of time speaking with a fella that worked in the Brownsberg park (he was our intern) and he said that he has seen the collectors pulling these toads from the park. He told me you would never see these Atelopus near the streams accept when they were breeding. He thought that females stayed by the water year long but hidden, and that the males would journey into the woods and return to the streams just to breed. I used to have a folder with a lot of great climate information but I think I left all this stuff at ABG. I still speak with my connection at Brownsberg from time to time so I could probably get some good detailed habitat/timing info for insitu natural counterparts. I will send him a message now and see if he has seen any activity in the streams. I think the best bet is to throw these things into breeding situation immediately if they are healthy enough.

here was a breeding tank i had set up. Water level and flow rate could be changed around.

 

[markpulawski]

hey Ray did you buy them all, I noticed the add is gone? Man I was hoping to drive up and pick up a pair.

 

[JJuchems]

The ad is back-up. I called and left a voice mail. I would like a pair.

 

[JJuchems]

Thanks to this tread I busted out. Harlequin Frogs: A Complete Guide. Does any one know if any other good books?

I guess Weds homework can wait another day.

 

[Ed]

I have worked with these little guys a bit both in my private collection and at ABG. They are not easy to get to breed after they have been in captivity for a couple years. Lots of amplexing even lots of clutches of infertile eggs. We had some partial fertilization and resulting tads seemed weak to me when compared to zeteki. I have spent a lot of time speaking with a fella that worked in the Brownsberg park (he was our intern) and he said that he has seen the collectors pulling these toads from the park. He told me you would never see these Atelopus near the streams accept when they were breeding. He thought that females stayed by the water year long but hidden, and that the males would journey into the woods and return to the streams just to breed. I used to have a folder with a lot of great climate information but I think I left all this stuff at ABG. I still speak with my connection at Brownsberg from time to time so I could probably get some good detailed habitat/timing info for insitu natural counterparts. I will send him a message now and see if he has seen any activity in the streams. I think the best bet is to throw these things into breeding situation immediately if they are healthy enough.

Hi Ben,

I've spoken with some field researchers and they reported finding the females widely dispersed in the forests away from the water and only approaching water when they are ready to ovulate, much like what is seen in other Atelopus species.


Ed