Arguments Concerning Water Features

2278 Views 38 Replies 18 Participants Last post by deboardfam, Jul 22, 2011

Jduane

Discussion Starter · Jul 21, 2011 (Edited)

Hi, i've been seeing people argue over wether or not frogs appreciate water features, and most people say it is a waste of in-tank space, i personally do not agree, in the wild, rainfall can create a ''drip wall'' that comes down and forms a pool, that frogs in turn use, many hobbyists (un)knowingly create this, in a ten gallon tank, a waterfall can take up as much as a quarter of the tanks space,when established as a mound, or ''tree'' even, but if you do it right, a water feature can take up almost NO space in the tank, a false bottom filled with water, and a pump in the back of it behind the background can make access to the pump and visibility two great combinations, whereas in a ''mound'' people say that kind of project should be not used at all, or saved for a different tank, people say that the frogs don't ''care'' or that they're "just as fine/better off without it" i do not believe this to be true, do you honestly think this is not created naturally in the wild? why shouldn't this also appear in our tanks, im sorry if you feel as if im ranting, but i am honestly tired of people posting construction journals, and you @$$holes posting blatantly "lose the water feature, ETC". if you don't agree, don't put them in your tanks, it is a simple remedy, instead of acting like teenagers, one of which i happen to be.
I hope this arises some thought into your minds, thanks, Jasper.

p.s ( im talking about large tanks)

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

deboardfam

· #2 · Jul 21, 2011

LOL this is going to be a fun thread..

This is very vague.. as in this isnt specific to any type of frog.
From my understanding a lot of the frogs we keep in the hobby arent found near water. They lay in broms etc. That tends to come up in the "#23Hole" comments that are given out to these newbs. Do you ever notice that EVERY newb, and I mean EVERY newb wants to come on here and immediately add a water feature. Its like the first thing they think about, the actual frogs as a second thought. I will admit I was the same way. My venture into this hobby started as a paludarium. Unlike many other newbs, I researched what I could put in with such a water based tank. Realized there wasnt much. Ventured toward darts. Researched more, then dropped the whole water idea.

Not that I am for or against water features. Nor know that much about the hobby as well. I am just observant of what others put.I would totally put one in a large tank, but it isnt for a 10vert or anything smaller than a 18" thick tank in my opinion. I think it is more of the focus as the issue. Anyway..

If education is really your cause, then you should do a little more research. I have a feeling this thread will end up in the dome.

/rant

Will wait for someone with more knowledge of specific species to chime in.

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Wallace Grover

· #3 · Jul 21, 2011

Just because a frog uses it doesn't really justify including it in your tank. It's mainly not recommended because well-designed water features are hard to execute and provide many elements that can become problems later on (particularly if you are new and, along with trying to master the basics, have to deal with a water feature too)...

Jduane

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jul 21, 2011

deboardfam said:
LOL this is going to be a fun thread..

This is very vague.. as in this isnt specific to any type of frog.
From my understanding a lot of the frogs we keep in the hobby arent found near water. They lay in broms etc. That tends to come up in the "#23Hole" comments that are given out to these newbs. Do you ever notice that EVERY newb, and I mean EVERY newb wants to come on here and immediately add a water feature. Its like the first thing they think about, the actual frogs as a second thought. I will admit I was the same way. My venture into this hobby started as a paludarium. Unlike many other newbs, I researched what I could put in with such a water based tank. Realized there wasnt much. Ventured toward darts. Researched more, then dropped the whole water idea.

Not that I am for or against water features. Nor know that much about the hobby as well. I am just observant of what others put.I would totally put one in a large tank, but it isnt for a 10vert or anything smaller than a 18" thick tank in my opinion. I think it is more of the focus as the issue. Anyway..

/rant

Will wait for someone with more knowledge of specific species to chime in.

Mate, im not being specific to any kind of frog, and i don't consider five years to be a ''newb'', alright? no, the frogs the majority of us keep are not ''pond'' frogs, and yes, i do agree that the thing that most mesmerizes people IS water features, but im just saying they aren't bad, the only thing i continually see is people having TOO MUCH of a water feature, the thing im saying is, water features are like junk food, they're nice to have, but in moderation.

Please Read Over This Thread before you make another comment like this, you're entirely right, but that isn't what im saying here... of course a large water feature would be bad in a 10vert. but if it ran up the back under a false bottom, that wouldn't be bad at all, if there is only about a one inch water area, you can still have a water feature, you just make only that part useable.
I hope you understand what im saying and this doesn't become a thread where it gets out of hand.

Jduane

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jul 21, 2011

Wallace Grover said:
Just because a frog uses it doesn't really justify including it in your tank. It's mainly not recommended because well-designed water features are hard to execute and provide many elements that can become problems later on (particularly if you are new and, along with trying to master the basics, have to deal with a water feature too)...

If you're new to the hobby there are a lot of things you shouldn't do...... im not talking about doing it for your first build, im talking about an established tank.

deboardfam

· #6 · Jul 21, 2011

I never once said you were a newb.. and I completely understand what your saying and it makes sense. I think it is just the way the information was presented. Your right. And we agree. I think the abbrasiveness is due to the repeat threads of people having a 10g tank.. and at least 50% of it being a pond and they would like to keep a pair or trio of tincs. Just like you said. Its one of those situations where if done right like you say would be fine, where it takes no space but newer people take it out of hand. I think its just easier to say no though than to constantly explain the needs of the animal though. True hobbyist who are for the better of the animal are just tired of the threads and telling people that they are doing it wrong.

Cheers... lets get a beer

Reactions: 1

GRIMM

· #7 · Jul 21, 2011

Pretty nasty tone to start a thread with. Calling people assholes when they only have the frog's health and well-being in mind. I dont see anyone bashing any of your beginner threads, so Im not sure why you are so angry. I only see welcoming advice and friendly posts....

Water features arent useless, but yes moderation is key when trying to provide the best possible habitat for darts. Pretty much end of story imo.

Reactions: 2

Jduane

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 21, 2011

Speaking of tone, grimm, im talking about the way they say it, people are of course open to express there opinions, but have you seen the way some people do it? im just trying to get my point across, if i seemed at all angry, i apologize.
I appreciate Your willingness to participate in a "rough" discussion.

Logqan

· #9 · Jul 21, 2011

Well I have nothing much to add but when I first started one of my first tanks had a drip wall type feature with a small pond that was maybe 2x3 inches and not even an inch deep. It was in a 20g long and it worked out great and my female auratus used it all the time. The other frogs in the tank never bothered with it. I scrapped the tank in time because of complications with the pump and the way I set it up. I haven't since made a real water feature for darts but hold no negative feelings toward them. If you are going to do it, do it right.

On another note a friend of mine who is a desert lizard breeder tried his hand at darts and made a 55 gallon with a water feature that was probably 10 inches wide by 10 inches long and about 3 inches deep. I told him that was too much and he was taking away from their space but he like it. 3 of his 4 frogs died in that water feature and he finally admitted it was a bad idea and gave away the last frog.

Like previously mentioned small or size appropriate water features can work but you for sure need to do your homework and probably better to go smaller than larger. Not saying a water feature can't be done but they are for sure better left to the pond/stream species of frogs.
Logan

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JakkBauer

· #10 · Jul 21, 2011

I agree with both points. Trying to add a big pond is silly but if you check out my build it has a small water feature going through a canister to filter and the space is 100% usable. Done right its fine I think as long as it is accessable for repair or it may just dry up.

I think Jduane is calling out all the people who immediately post "loose your water feature" like they are some form of elite. It is pretentious attempt to display some form of superiority over the new builder. Instead if just making that statement these people should take the time to explain why or maybe figure out if they are dealing with someone capable of making the feature work instead of shooting down their ideas immediately.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

johnyrocks

· #11 · Jul 21, 2011

deboardfam said:
LOL this is going to be a fun thread..

This is very vague.. as in this isnt specific to any type of frog.
From my understanding a lot of the frogs we keep in the hobby arent found near water. They lay in broms etc. That tends to come up in the "#23Hole" comments that are given out to these newbs. Do you ever notice that EVERY newb, and I mean EVERY newb wants to come on here and immediately add a water feature. Its like the first thing they think about, the actual frogs as a second thought. I will admit I was the same way. My venture into this hobby started as a paludarium. Unlike many other newbs, I researched what I could put in with such a water based tank. Realized there wasnt much. Ventured toward darts. Researched more, then dropped the whole water idea.

Not that I am for or against water features. Nor know that much about the hobby as well. I am just observant of what others put.I would totally put one in a large tank, but it isnt for a 10vert or anything smaller than a 18" thick tank in my opinion. I think it is more of the focus as the issue. Anyway..

If education is really your cause, then you should do a little more research. I have a feeling this thread will end up in the dome.

/rant

Will wait for someone with more knowledge of specific species to chime in.

You have the same amount of posts as me, and I agree with you and my first was a paludarium. Are you my lost bro?

johnyrocks

· #12 · Jul 21, 2011

I must say, my very first tank had a water feature that convered half the tank. I ripped that apart. My current tank has nothing like it, but I must say a large water feature is a waste but if you have suppose a drip wall and 1/2 in of gravel hidden it's not taking up any space, but it's still a water feature. I'm not to crazy about your tone, please think about what you're going to say and think about it BEFORE posting, alright? Starting a post and calling people assholes when you probably don't know that much about the hobby as them. What you've done is you're trying to just get people to get upset, while you think you're proving a point. Shame on you.

boabab95

· #13 · Jul 21, 2011 (Edited)

it completely depends on the frogs...

for darts like tincs, terrib, pumilio, thumbnails, I think a water feature IS completely pointless AND a waste of space... UNLESS you want them [tincs, terribs] to tank raise their young, in which case a small water area [whether in the corner, or along the front] would be fine...

on the other hand, darts [ and toads and other amphibians] such as reed frogs, anthonyi, trivs, leucs, etc... which are often found along streams, or in swampy habitats, will be fine with a small *trickle* of water and a pond [1/3 for trivs, less for leucs and anthonyi] would be totally fine, and maybe beneficial [i've heard that people find anthonyi breed more near moving water, but not like niagra falls moving water, but enough to break the surface]...

obviously arboreal frogs that really only require broms for water, i dont see a point of of having a water feature.

I'm currently setting up a 120 split for leucs and anthonyi [there is glass seperating them!] and have a pond in the front on both sides, as they are found closer to streams.

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Woodsman

· #14 · Jul 21, 2011

A small soaking dish is all that is needed for most species.

Richard.

frogfreak

· #15 · Jul 21, 2011

Woodsman said:
A small soaking dish is all that is needed for most species.

Richard.

True, but boring and a pain to keep an eye on.

I think every tank should have some kind of small pool of water for the frogs. Mine all have a bit of water and the frogs use it on a regular basis. I don't know where the idea of having water feature in a tank was a bad idea. They are amphibians after all.

Reactions: 3

Woodsman

· #16 · Jul 21, 2011

Hi Glenn,

D. tinctorius (the species I work with the most) is a terrestrial species and isn't found near water. They find curled up leaves and hollows with water to deposit tadpoles, but that's about it.

I also have too many tanks now to make water features something I would want to deal with. Otherwise, I think they are fine if people want to choose them.

Take care, Richard.

frogfreak said:
True, but boring and a pain to keep an eye on.

I think every tank should have some kind of small pool of water for the frogs. Mine all have a bit of water and the frogs use it on a regular basis. I don't know where the idea of having water feature in a tank was a bad idea. They are amphibians after all.

frogfreak

· #17 · Jul 21, 2011

Hi Richard

I know that you work with primarily Tincs, as do I. I'm not saying to go back and add water features to a hundred tanks either. That said, my Tincs use the water all the time, especially when breeding. I think if you have the opportunity to add a small sunken corner with some water, go for it. It's just a bonus for the frogs.

Reactions: 2

Jduane

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 21, 2011

JakkBauer said:
I agree with both points. Trying to add a big pond is silly but if you check out my build it has a small water feature going through a canister to filter and the space is 100% usable. Done right its fine I think as long as it is accessable for repair or it may just dry up.

I think Jduane is calling out all the people who immediately post "loose your water feature" like they are some form of elite. It is pretentious attempt to display some form of superiority over the new builder. Instead if just making that statement these people should take the time to explain why or maybe figure out if they are dealing with someone capable of making the feature work instead of shooting down their ideas immediately.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Right, Thank you for being constructive with your words and not misinterpreting it.

Jduane

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jul 21, 2011 (Edited)

johnyrocks said:
I must say, my very first tank had a water feature that convered half the tank. I ripped that apart. My current tank has nothing like it, but I must say a large water feature is a waste but if you have suppose a drip wall and 1/2 in of gravel hidden it's not taking up any space, but it's still a water feature. I'm not to crazy about your tone, please think about what you're going to say and think about it BEFORE posting, alright? Starting a post and calling people assholes when you probably don't know that much about the hobby as them. What you've done is you're trying to just get people to get upset, while you think you're proving a point. Shame on you.

Alright, what's wrong with you? first you tell me to ''watch my tone'' then you say the majority of people im calling out know more about the hobby than me?
is it because i just joined the board? stop discriminating based on my forum time if that's what you're doing. i have plenty of experience with reptiles/amphibians.

hopefully all of you will calm down on the tone thing, i just become tired of people blatantly saying ''get rid of the drip wall/etc." if it looks good and doesn't take up too much room, i honestly don't care if the frogs use it or not, as long as they have ample space it's not a problem, it adds to the tank, don't you like creating beautiful things? if you think a water feature is pointless, maybe you should keep your frogs in a shoebox with some sphagnum moss, im not trying to be harsh, but really, practice what you preach before you go on ranting about someone else's tone, i hope you get whatever problem you have with me calling people who do this sort of thing assholes, but honestly you're being one.

-Jasper.

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Jduane

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jul 22, 2011

Alright, what i mean in this thread is this.

-water features are okay. Just Give The frogs ample space, they also don't want to be drowned in water, but even in a 10 gallon, a drip wall going down the back can do no harm if done right.

- Please Stop commenting on threads blatantly saying ''get rid of the drip wall''
, please give reason so that they can know why you think they should do it, and if they don't BACK OFF.

-this thread was not meant to be harsh in any way, i was just angry at the massive amounts of people saying this, and i get stressed out easily, i apologize to anyone i offended.

If somebody makes a mistake and doesn't listen to you, please just let them mess up, they should realize there mistake soon enough.

Please don't let this turn into a hate thread, the majority of you are adults, Handle yourselves Like one.

-jasper

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