[Ed]

Also had to do with losing a St Lamasi, heightened effect for the speices/morph of frog. A lot of this goes back to a guy that once said you can't ID frogs from a picture , bugs though not as variable can also be quite difficult to ID.

A good understanding of how stress impacts an animal points towards the possibility of it occuring... There is good data out there that indicates that depending on the stress (repeated, one time, chronic) there are differences in how the animal can respond to it. Severe stress can not only increase corticosteroid levels and suppress the immune response, suppress reproductive output, but cause death. Stressors that are relatively the same day to day typically result in habituation to those stressors but stressors that can vary widely in intensity can cause death (see Health and Welfare of Captive Reptiles (Amazon.com: Health and Welfare of Captive Reptiles (9781402004032): Clifford Warwick, F.L. Frye, J.B. Murphy: Books) for the full explination). In the case mentioned above we have a froglet which was just shipped. Depending on the time out of water, we could have stress from metamorphosis(which already suppresses immune function) added to stress from shipping, stress from being placed into a new enclosure without any of the cues that allow for territorial recognition (visual, olfactory), and stress from microfaunal interactions. It isn't possible to decouple one stress from these situations and claim it couldn't have been x it must have been y as all of the stressors create a synergistic impact on the animal. It is also incorrect to attempt to equate this to a frog in the wild as the impacts are an apple and orange comparision (as an example, a frog in the wild while having stresses on it, those tend to be the same day to day, and are probably not causing the same increase of corticosteroids as the newly shipped froglet).

Some comments,

Ed

 

[markpulawski]

Actually I gave him some tads so it was not a shipped froglet but good points all Ed, so many variables not to mention the viability of a froglet that nature may have selected to eliminate.

 

[james67]

that was one of the instances i was referring to mark. thanks.

shawn, im not singling out a member (i replied to the thread and am subscribed, i check back and respond like i do with any other thread) in fact ive been very careful to word my responses in a delicate way with this particular user so as not to offend him.

also, when talking about microfauna related stress being a non-life threatening issue i said:

which may or may not be the case.

my response was not an attack in any way, rather it was in reference to my own personal observations. i would ask you if, then you would place a frog into the booming culture that has less microfauna than the leaf litter? of course not. animals in small enclosed spaces react differently than those in the wild, to many stressors, like microfauna or temperature variation. both of which are deadly at different ranges in captivity(IME).

james

 

[JimO]

I'm just relating this for information purposes.

I gave two G&B auratus froglets to a friend and after about a week in their viv, my friend decided to feed them some springs. When he put the springs in the viv, quite a few fell on one of the froglets. The froglet went crazy, flopped around, had what looked like a seizure and died, all within 15 minutes. I was on the phone with my friend as it was happening because he called for my help as soon as it starting going mad. Perhaps it's rare or perhaps that particular frog had issues that caused it to be ultra sensitive to stimuli, but that is an accurate account of what happened.

 

[Ed]

Actually I gave him some tads so it was not a shipped froglet but good points all Ed, so many variables not to mention the viability of a froglet that nature may have selected to eliminate.

Thanks for the clarification Mark.. It is still a good indication that the stressors still can't be decoupled.

Ed