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Discussion Starter · #61 · (Edited)
this is a blanket statement that isnt necessarily true. large populations of ANY microfauna can and will stress frogs to death. i have witnessed it first hand.

just something to consider.

james
I meant a threat as for their well being, as in the mites attacking or feeding on the frogs.
I know about the dangerous of stress and there isn't even enough springs in there for the frogs even to get stressed and I haven't seen anymore mites.
I meant as in they won't feed off the frogs like predator mites.

Live food running around in an animals enclosure will stress them out this applies to a lot of herps and other things.

Yes I knew that, you are just nitpicking.
 

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I meant a threat as for their well being, as in the mites attacking or feeding on the frogs.
death of an animal is death regardless of cause. its important to remember that your threads are public and available for others who may be having a similar issue. your satisfaction related to the question being answered is secondary to the plethora of other users who may find this thread in an attempt to seek answers to their questions as well.


I know about the dangerous of stress and there isn't even enough springs in there for the frogs even to get stressed and I haven't seen anymore mites.
its very easy to stress frogs to death with microfauna. and without having kept dart frogs, i cant see an accurate way to determine what is or isnt enough (in terms of population size and density) to cause fatal levels of stress.


you are just nitpicking.
im stating an important consideration that could potentially help other members who stumble on this thread and read
Either way spider mites or grain mites aren't a threat.
. which may or may not be the case. in fact there was a recent thread where a new hobbyist introduced 3 otherwise healthy frogs to a vivarium with too much microfauna and they died within 24 hours. this is important information, whether or not you choose to see it that way is unrelated to the importance of the dissemination of correct and useful info.


james
 

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Discussion Starter · #65 ·
I prefer to think of it as correcting misinformation. It's not about you. It's about other people reading the thread.
Once again I meant as in a threat as in harming the frogs.
Yet they are a problem if there is a bunch of them.

Trust me not all the posts you all make are perfect either lol.

Now just drop it
 

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Can we just have a mod bring the final word of, "we'll never agree", and close this one out? In the end, if it were spider mites, questions were answered, if it were grain, etc mites... again questions have been answered...

JBear
Dragon. I like you, and I know you are simply frustrated beyond belief. But at this point, you are forcing this battle. Really. Let it go. If another flareup occurs, post pics, and ask again. I just think you are commiting forum suicide the more you push on this.

JBear
 
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Discussion Starter · #68 ·
Dragon. I like you, and I know you are simply frustrated beyond belief. But at this point, you are forcing this battle. Really. Let it go. If another flareup occurs, post pics, and ask again. I just think you are commiting forum suicide the more you push on this.

JBear
um I dropped the mite subject and directed it to the springtails.
Trying to change topic.
I'm not forcing anything lol. I didn't ask them to come around keeping up the convo about fungus and mites.

I simply posted an update saying they are gone and I hope they don't show back up.

I'm not pushing the subjects lol they are.
 

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um I dropped the mite subject and directed it to the springtails.
Trying to change topic.
I'm not forcing anything lol. I didn't ask them to come around keeping up the convo about fungus and mites.

I simply posted an update saying they are gone and I hope they don't show back up.

I'm not pushing the subjects lol they are.
I was honestly looking to help you avoid the "targeting". To move on, and create a new thread. If you are asking about isos in that thread and you are bashed/targeted, you will know it is in fact personal.

I think it is pretty clear Dragon's posts were picked apart, and he was lampooned in a way. I don't think it is fair. So what, he held an opinion...?

JBear
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 · (Edited)
I was honestly looking to help you avoid the "targeting". To move on, and create a new thread. If you are asking about isos in that thread and you are bashed/targeted, you will know it is in fact personal.

I think it is pretty clear Dragon's posts were picked apart, and he was lampooned in a way. I don't think it is fair. So what, he held an opinion...?

JBear
I'm not even trying to make myself a target I really don't have too cause that's all I am to them.
I's like they are the little old man from the gorge of eternal peril/scene 24 and they are looking for any little mistake to toss me into the gorge.
I have noticed that I am not being 100% and I am giving them room to pick things apart. I shall try not to....but I can't be perfect.
I can't be perfect and shouldn't expect to be perfect lol.

As I have said before thanks for not being oblivious to what they do.
There may be hope for compassion and empathy on Dendroboard.
We are the seeds and hopefully the compassion and empathy will spread.
We are the PDF baby boomers and when we get to their status(senior member) we know we will handle things a lot better.
Ya know I have always wondered how people can be so rude and abrasive yet they are surrounded by such beautiful frogs and vivariums and they look like they are doing pretty well financially and are content with their lives yet why are they so rude, grumpy, and bitter. What is the point of vendettas and just simply trying to annoy me.
It baffles me.
If this is what a PDF elite is or having all the answers and experience then I don't want it. I will keep my honor, dignity and integrity thank you very much :)
People like them push others away from the hobby.
Frogging should be a happy go lucky experience not a badgering dramafest lulz


Take care JBear :)
 

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please review the thread and recognize that the only posts not relating to the topic are your comments directed towards the "they". (who, unlike yourself have remained on topic and made no comments relating to the poster, but rather to the post and its content)

james
 

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I'm not even trying to make myself a target I really don't have too cause that's all I am to them.
I's like they are the little old man from the gorge of eternal peril/scene 24 and they are looking for any little mistake to toss me into the gorge.
I have noticed that I am not being 100% and I am giving them room to pick things apart. I shall try not to....but I can't be perfect.
I can't be perfect and shouldn't expect to be perfect lol.

As I have said before thanks for not being oblivious to what they do.
There may be hope for compassion and empathy on Dendroboard.
We are the seeds and hopefully the compassion and empathy will spread.
We are the PDF baby boomers and when we get to their status(senior member) we know we will handle things a lot better.
Ya know I have always wondered how people can be so rude and abrasive yet they are surrounded by such beautiful frogs and vivariums and they look like they are doing pretty well financially and are content with their lives yet why are they so rude, grumpy, and bitter. What is the point of vendettas and just simply trying to annoy me.
It baffles me.
If this is what a PDF elite is or having all the answers and experience then I don't want it. I will keep my honor, dignity and integrity thank you very much :)
People like them push others away from the hobby.
Frogging should be a happy go lucky experience not a badgering dramafest lulz


Take care JBear :)
Listen, I appreciate that, but I am out.

Best to you.

JBear
 

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Discussion Starter · #73 · (Edited)
please review the thread and recognize that the only posts not relating to the topic are your comments directed towards the "they". (who, unlike yourself have remained on topic and made no comments relating to the poster, but rather to the post and its content)

james
I am not perfect. Get over it.
Do you go around targeting others that make mistakes as well, nah it tends to be me more than others and trust me there is plenty of mistakes on here to correct.
Everyone should know that too much microfauna can lead to stressing the frogs before they even start culturing or feeding.
Then correct me and then move on and not have a convo with people on my thread and be boastful about the corrections...this applies to Doug as well cause he is here simply instigating especially since I wasn't even addressing him lol.
Point was made and correction was made no further comments were needed besides by the wo people in the convo which was me and you..
Anyway like I said everyone should know about too much fauna stressing out the frogs before you culture or feeding, especially if they do their research correctly.

There are lots of gaps and things left out in care sheets and the how to threads.
I don't see this mentioned much and I guess you are right that it needed to be mentioned.
 

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My comment was polite and specifically addressing the statement that mites cannot be a threat.
Either way spider mites or grain mites aren't a threat.
It is a public forum and as such I do my best correct misinformation so that others do not stumble over it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #75 · (Edited)
My comment was polite and specifically addressing the statement that mites cannot be a threat.

It is a public forum and as such I do my best correct misinformation so that others do not stumble over it.
Someone has already addressed it. You are here just instigating.
I think a simple like would have sufficed but noooo you had to reply after that.

I have a bad lumbar sprain and I am doped up on pain pills and I can't sleep. Lmao I'm bound to make mistakes.
James corrected me and there was no need for you to chime in just like I was just talking yet you chimed in again.

Anyway I think some of you have my "Find all posts by DragonSpirit1185" link book marked cause I don't see you correcting very many but as soon as I slip up bam it's always the same 3 people and if it is just one the others aren't far behind liking and thanking your post lol..
Can you say habitual, obsession, and badgering?
I usually only see Ed going around and correcting others.

Let me make this plain as day:
The context I put it in and how I know I meant it was me saying that I know they aren't a physical threat.
There is a difference between physical threat and psychological threat.
Physical:
phys·i·cal/ˈfizikəl/
Adjective:
Of or relating to the body as opposed to the mind.

High microfauna populations would make them feel stressed that would be psycological.

Anyway the nitpicking correction has been made let's all move along now.
If you keep replying no one will see the correction haha


Originally Posted by DragonSpirit1185
Um I found the research after the thread was posted.
I said I know it isn't fungus and they wouldn't have it.
They were trying to force there opinion on it being fungus yet I know what I saw and it was webs.
They were the ones not listening to me. Trying to tell me what I saw when I know what I saw lol.

Either way spider mites or grain mites aren't a threat.

Now please drop it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by james67
this is a blanket statement that isnt necessarily true. large populations of ANY microfauna can and will stress frogs to death. i have witnessed it first hand.

just something to consider.

james


Ladies and gents.....please don't think that just because the mites do not pose a physical threat that the frogs aren't in danger.
Too many mites or any microfauna can be a psychological threat and can cause them stress and it will kill them.
I knew this before making the statement since I have had herps all my life so I meant they wasn't a physical threat.
Plus I have already stated that I have seen no more mites and there wasn't many seen at all so there was no need to mention a psychological threat.
You did however need to know that too many around them as James and I said can can kill them.
 

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I just don't get it...

You..

Ask questions...

Argue about most answers you are given...

Give out bad info...

Then argue about how you are correct ...

Find out your wrong ...

Give excuses why you were wrong...

Family issue, sick, pain meds...

Everyone that corrects you is bashing you...

Has to have the last word, but everyone else needs to drop it...

Thinks highly respected people in this hobby are big meanies and out to get you...

Thinks your going to make the hobby better when your an "old-timer"...

I don't know, maybe its just me, but first I think you have to actual be in this hobby to make it better. Because most of what you have said so far has potential to harm peoples hobby.


But to your point about psychological stress, yes stress is psychological but its the physical factor(s) that causes stress. Like the mites or springs crawling all over them not just the frog looking at them and getting stressed to death...


A bewildered Casper
 

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i have seen first hand frogs die of stress related to microfauna. stating that it will be fine isnt entirely accurate. they might be ok, but they might not.

i doubt seriously that what you have are spider mites. its more likely that the web like things that your seeing are mycelium and completely unrelated to the mites.

james
Honestly, but I do not think this it true.

A single handful of leaf litter in CR/ Panama/ Peru teams with microfauna at a density to rival your best springtail culture boxes.

If there was some anecdotal case of someones frog dieing after introduction to a tank, and there is a lot of microfauna, you can not make a cause and effect assumption. What a new arrival has never died without microfauna??

Never have I suspected a frog to have been 'overwhelmed' by mites/isopods/springs etc. Never.

NOW, the rest of this BS back and forth pissing match between members who clearly dont like each other has to stop. The entire forum is full of the same handful of members who seem to enjoy picking/ nitpicking/ commenting to the contrary and outright targeting each other.
 

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Shawn James was referring to a St Lamasi I gave him a couple of years ago, it went into a tank heavily laden with springs, seemed to stress, whither quickly and then die. He asked if I thought it could be related to the numerous springs in the enclosure and I thought certainly it could...a bunch of bugs crawling on a baby frog could easily stress it to a point of no return within a couple of days.
There likely were other factors involved as well but that was not known. A healthy active hunting froglet should be able to elude microfauna but confined to a tank tons of mites may have the same effect, I have seen mite outbreaks that look like the plagues of Egypt.
 

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James wasnt the only one to make this incorrect assertion Mark....no offense to him.

I just click quoted that post to reply to the thread. I could have clicked on many more/ or strung them all together like so many people seem to enjoy doing here....lol


1. The frog in question was young. Young frogs die sometimes no?
2. The frog in question was shipped. Frogs die after shipping stress no?
3. The frog in question was just put in a new enclosure....new temps...new humidity....new keeper.....tossed/photographed/sprayed/force fed and .... well sure, it had to share it's space with some bugs too....

So, the variables involved are so many that the mites/ springs ect were likely a coincidence....not a cause. Guilty by association with a dead frog I say ;-)

Anyway, point is.....folks cant just make blanket statements about good or bad....IMO....

And.....since its never happened to me....I see it as untrue in my little utopia :D:D, my bug filled utopia.....

Best,
 

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Also had to do with losing a St Lamasi, heightened effect for the speices/morph of frog. A lot of this goes back to a guy that once said you can't ID frogs from a picture , bugs though not as variable can also be quite difficult to ID.
 
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