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I've been through the PDF care sheets and I still have questions. If there is no "preferred" habitat listed, should I just assume they're terrestrial? Is there a definitive list of arboreal species out there? And finally, almost every single species of PDF I've read about can be found up to at least a meter or two off the ground in the wild. Some go much, much higher. Given the size of our vivariums, wouldn't any PDF we keep utilize all parts of the enclosure, high or low?

Steve
 

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Most of the arboreal species are smaller and able to climb more easily, like thumbnail species. However, there are always exceptions, such as the Fantastica group, which are more terrestrial thumbnails.
It is an interesting point about even terrestrial frogs climbing a bit off the ground. However, I still notice that they tend to stay on or near the ground if they are a terrestrial species most of the time. I think if you built a viv that was 8 feet tall and 20 feet wide, they would climb up more like you noted in the wild. However, I would never put a pair of tinctorius in a 20 gallon vert because mine barely leave the ground in their 20 gallon.
Bryan
 

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I believe the definition of arboreal (inasmuch as it refers to darts) is anything that significantly utilizes area more than six feet above the ground.

Many of your terrestrial frogs (leucs, galacts, auratus, thumbnails) will use most of the height you give them, but they are perfectly comfortable with little height in the tank (except perhaps the leucs that just love to climb). Tincs and terribilis are the only frogs I've seen that don't use _that_ much arboreal space (but will still climb).

The importance for knowing if a frog is arboreal or terrestrial is so you know how to design your tank. Yes, techincally most of the frogs will utilize most of the space you provide for them (even the vertical space). However, arboreal frogs, let's say imitators, should be provided with more vert space than a terrestrial frog, let's say leucs. It doesn't have to do with "how high should I build my vivarium," but "if I'm working with only 20 gallons, does my frog need as much floor space as I can provide, or as much height as I can provide?"

There is no rule of thumb regarding arboreal/terrestrial. Not all the caresheets have been written up, or are up to date, however there is information around the board. If you do your research for the frogs you plan on working with you'll be able to find out.

Most of the arboreal species are smaller and able to climb more easily, like thumbnail species. However, there are always exceptions, such as the Fantastica group, which are more terrestrial thumbnails.
This is true of some fantastica clade frogs, like the reticulatus and the lowland fantasticus, but not quite so true of other fantastica clade frogs like the benedicta.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
OMG! I can't believe I spelled "arboreal" wrong in the post title. Sorry 
 

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This is true of some fantastica clade frogs, like the reticulatus and the lowland fantasticus, but not quite so true of other fantastica clade frogs like the benedicta.
Or even all populations of R. fantastica--I have talked with someone who has done research on canopy-dwelling amphibians, and fantastica is considered to be a pretty arboreal Dendrobatid, at least with its deposition sites.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So, is there a list that distinguishes between "true" arboreals and those that utilize the canopy occasionally, say for deposition sites?

Steve
 

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So, is there a list that distinguishes between "true" arboreals and those that utilize the canopy occasionally, say for deposition sites?

Steve
Are you sure there aren't reccomendations on whether to keep them in horizontal or verticals? Look at the general care section...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re: Arboreals?

Are you sure there aren't reccomendations on whether to keep them in horizontal or verticals? Look at the general care section...
"...Quinquevittatus can be kept similarly to other members of their species group and terrestrial thumbnails. They will use both the floor and the upper reaches of the tank..."

The above was taken from the Quinquevittatus care sheet. Sounds to me as if this is a terrestrial species, not arboreal. It just so happens that they use all areas of the tank. Most all care sheets carry recommendations for tanks; I'm interested in what is an arboreal vs. terrestrial species and whether or not there is a comprehensive list available differentiating known PDFs as such. If not, looks like I've got to make one. :)

I'm also postulating that, in the wild, the opportunities for terrestrial species to change elevations are more readily available than in a 20G long vivarium. I'm thinking that, supplying an availability of easily navigable changes in elevation in a vivarium will cause even the most terrestrial of captive species to move throughout differing levels of the tank.

Again, that's just my theory.

Steve
 

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Your probably not going to get a very concrete answer then, in the wild even tincs climb trees taller than any vivarium we could ever hope to build...
 

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I've seen vivs taller than 8 feet. That extends well beyond the 2 meter definition for terrestrials that I quoted earlier.

To the OP. Your frogs will use arboreal tank space. I've even seen terribilis crawl 24" up....
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I've seen vivs taller than 8 feet. That extends well beyond the 2 meter definition for terrestrials that I quoted earlier.

To the OP. Your frogs will use arboreal tank space. I've even seen terribilis crawl 24" up....
Which, I suppose, gets me to the real question of this thread...Can we as hobbyists do a better job of tank design for PDFs? I was reading a paper (have to find a link) that was speaking of enrichment for tincs and leucs using a hollowed out coconut filled with pinhead crickets. The pinheads make their way out of the shell through the three "eyes" of the shell that have been drilled out. They come out irregularly, which stimulates the frog's hunting instinct.

We all know darts can be very territorial. if we build our vivs with an eye towards usable space throughout the entire tank, the darts should be more enthusiastic about moving through all areas of the tank. This too should be enriching for them as they search for, and defend their "territory".

Maybe this is pure speculation. Maybe an idea like this will only work in huge systems; 10 and 20 gallon tanks being too small to make this work. I don't know. I can only presume that the closer to nature we can build a viv, the better off the inhabitants will be.

Steve
 

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Which, I suppose, gets me to the real question of this thread...Can we as hobbyists do a better job of tank design for PDFs? I was reading a paper (have to find a link) that was speaking of enrichment for tincs and leucs using a hollowed out coconut filled with pinhead crickets. The pinheads make their way out of the shell through the three "eyes" of the shell that have been drilled out. They come out irregularly, which stimulates the frog's hunting instinct.

We all know darts can be very territorial. if we build our vivs with an eye towards usable space throughout the entire tank, the darts should be more enthusiastic about moving through all areas of the tank. This too should be enriching for them as they search for, and defend their "territory".

Maybe this is pure speculation. Maybe an idea like this will only work in huge systems; 10 and 20 gallon tanks being too small to make this work. I don't know. I can only presume that the closer to nature we can build a viv, the better off the inhabitants will be.

Steve
Don't we already do this, by trying to create plateaus and such?
 
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