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Ants as feeders?

14K views 75 replies 17 participants last post by  Ed 
#1 ·
Just curious if anyone on the site had any experience in Keeping an ant colony as feeders? If so how do you keep/culture them? Where did you get a queen? This might not be a realistic thing, if not let me know why.
Reason I'm asking is I've read that ants are a main food source in the wild.
 
#9 · (Edited)
I study ants. If you find a species, that doesn't sting, that is very un-aggressive, specific ant species may be perfect as feeders...
HOWEVER, and this is a major however, many people, use poisons to get rid of ants, you need to make sure none of your neighbors do or that could kill your frogs. Furthermore, many species of ants are highly agressive and could potentially hurt a dart frog, so if you can't be sure the ant doesn't sting, spray lots of Formic Acid or have a bad bite you shouldn't use it.
As for a few surviving and setting up shop. Not going to happen. Ant workers cannot set up a new colony without a queen, they are usually infertile, or if fertile, only lay male eggs which they cannot breed with (there are always a few exceptions, but the vast majority of ant species follow these rules). I have fed ants to darts before (long time ago and not to my current frogs), and it is amazing the different reaction you get when compared to them hunting fruit-flies.
Saying all that, I wouldn't feed them ants unless you are completely aware of what you are doing and only a few at a time.
 
#11 ·
I wouldn't know where to tell you to get ants, obviously not from your backyard since the risks are too great.

I think it can be done and I completely agree with you. If your frog misses some they would not be able to reproduce and take over your tank.

The only problem I see is finding a good species that is suitable for this kind of thing (feeding PDFs) and maintaining a healthy colony.
 
#12 ·
There are several smaller species that would be perfect, some types of Lasius, Leptothorax, mild mannered Myrmica, but you would just need to make sure they were the proper kind. I am actually setting up an ant farm of Lasius neoniger and will probably see the reaction my R. imitators have to these small and very non-agressive ants (they actually run away leaving their brood behind when you disturb their nest). However, I am in Alberta, Canada so I can't tell you what ant species from your area would be good. If you have the ability to find a perfect ant species all for it, I just don't want people to make a mistake and have them lose some frogs.
 
#13 ·
Thanks to those that didn't flame me for my ideas. Some people are quick to speak with little valuable info to speak of. If you could glasious keep me posted on your success. What I'd like to do is set a farm up myself as another source of food and so I can watch the ants. I've always like ant farms and would like to have another for dual purpose. Will you be receiving a queen ant? If so where did you get it from?
 
#15 ·
I got my ant queen from collecting her in the wild. She just started laying eggs.
antscanada.com has good ant farms and stuff. Plus I believe they have a link to a trading system for actual colonies in North America.
I think ants farms are awesome (and though I study ants I haven't had the greatest luck with them haha) and even if you don't use them as feeders they are still fun to have!
 
#18 ·
I will also point out most of the posts I can find about ants on this site are about ants invading a terrarium, especially the house pest Monomorium pharaonis, the Pharaoh Ant. It is a major house pest and breeds fast and in large numbers can easily take down a frog. They also like warm moist environments and easily breed in vivs. I am sure in the southern states there are even more ants that can do this, and anyone with ant problems should be aware that ants in the house could possibly do this. Furthermore If you ever find ants in the house, you should deal with them as it often means there is another type of issue allowing them to use your house as a habitable environment.
 
#19 ·
It is illegal in the USA to transport ant queens across state borders without specific permits by the USDA. Attempting to transport ants without a permit is highly frowned upon by the goverment.

One of the things to keep in mind is that you really have to use a very docile ant as the frogs are trapped in an area with a bunch of pissed off ants when you sprinkle them into the tank... In the wild, the frogs move around and pick off foragers without alerting the colony.
If you can figure out a way to introduce them without pissing them off, people have used Tetramorium caespitum.

I would avoid any of the ants in the Monomorium genus as they tend to be a hard to control pest.... and in my experience not accepted by the frogs.

Ed
 
#20 ·
It is true, ants should not be shipped. The thing on antscanada.com is for people to find other ant keepers in their areas (I wasn't specific enough). And yes Monomorium species can be a bad pest. I also agree only a few ants at a time would be best .
 
#23 ·
I swear I was going to ask this same question yesterday. I remember keeping an ant farm when I was younger. I believe they were a species of harvester ants that didn't sting. What I would do before I added them to the farm to keep the from scattering all over the place was put them in the freezer for about a min. It doesn't kill them but they would go to "sleep" and wake up when they warmed up. They never came with queens though and you can't setup a successfulcolony without one.
 
#29 ·
Well Im gonna go smoke some crack....thought this was something yall should know...... Some things are better kept behind them closed doors! ; )

Seriously... Is someone feeding mini spiders to their frogs now too? Hmmm...how bout roach larvae....?
 
#30 ·
Quotes found using 'search', just some things to think about..

In my experience feeding ants is not a good idea. I have fed a couple different types and the frogs did seem to like them but they wouldn't eat them all and the remaining ants would set up colonies or scent trails to bring in more ants. Too many ants equals dead frogs. I have had the unpleasant experience of loosing a few frogs to ants. In fact the ants that killed my frogs were the argentine ants. Just thought I would relate my experience. If you do choose to feed ants, use caution as Brent stated.

Brad
I would put a little peanut butter and sugar in a jar and leave it near their hill to bait them in. Then you can carefully transfer the jar to a frog tank. This way the ants aren't rialed up to where they may be releasing formic acid, pheromones, and generally P.O.ed to where they want to sting everything in sight. Just remember that frogs in the wild tend to snap up ants as they are calmly going about their daily business - unlike something like an anteater which tears in and generally ticks the ants off in the process of feeding. Whatever you do, never collect ants with an aspirator (a.k.a. pooter) unless you want to go to the hospital to get a new pair of lungs.

I'm not entirely sure why there is so much interest in feeding out ants to the frogs as it isn't necessary and ants are a poor quality food item...

Ed
Yeah, those harvester ants will kill a dart frog in a heartbeat. Might as well try feeding them killer bees. Every been stung by one of those dudes? I have and it ain't fun. A friend of mine witnessed a toddler who sat on a harvester ant mound. They had to rush the kid to the hospital. Luckiliy they don't send enough ants with those ant farms to be dangerous but they are pretty aggressive predators.
fyi-
Our local store had a colony off ants move in one day and take over a small viv. The ants swarmed the frogs and killed them. I would not introduce anything that has or might attract ants into your build.
A friend of mine just lost a gorgeous pair of breeding escudo due to the same type of ants. Pull the frogs immediately.
Man.... search rocks ;)

There are other people who have had luck feeding ants, but unless you can ID them yourself, you're playing with fire IMO.
 
#31 ·
To the nay Sayers. I searched this topic already. I'm looking into the correct species to feed, not just any ant. They can not set up a colony and only a couple will be added at a time. You can think what you want but variety in diet is important. Ants are a nutritious source of food high in protein and folic acid. It's a main source of food in the wild.
I will be trying in the future once I get my hands on a queen or two and start a colony outside of my vivs. I'll let everyone know how it works out.
Open your minds a bit. Some of you act like there's only one way and certain death impedes if any other is tried.
 
#32 ·
To the nay Sayers. I searched this topic already. I'm looking into the correct species to feed, not just any ant. They can not set up a colony and only a couple will be added at a time. You can think what you want but variety in diet is important. Ants are a nutritious source of food high in protein and folic acid. It's a main source of food in the wild.

Where did you get the data that the ants were nutritious and high in protien? I would like to see the reference.

Ed
 
#33 ·
It's been stated in many programs I've watched. There are animals that live almost 100% on ants and termites. They are also considered nutritious for humans to eat. I'll also be dusting as I feed them.
What makes a fruit fly more nutritional? They're both insects. Aren't they made of the same thing? Why is this such a horrible idea? These will not be an ant that can sting, bite or eat my frogs.
All the quotes from the search are irrelevant. The talk about wild caught ants or harvest ants which are not any species I'm looking to feed. They can't colonize as some geniuses on here think. And they can't call their ant buddies to come eat the frogs.
 
#35 ·
All the quotes from the search are irrelevant. The talk about wild caught ants or harvest ants which are not any species I'm looking to feed. They can't colonize as some geniuses on here think. And they can't call their ant buddies to come eat the frogs.
1) The only way you're going to get a queen is from catching one in the wild, it's already been mentioned that it's illegal to ship across state lines and the chances of finding one for sale in-state are very low.

2) Dead frogs don't tell lies. All it takes is one ant to escape and leave a trail, since you'll be almost 100% be using wild caught ants from your area, it's very feasible to think that an ant of the same type from a different colony could cross paths with that trail, and it's all downhill from there. Feel free to explain how there are multiple accounts of viv invasion resulting from a few individuals.

3) You came here for advice, insulting the people on this board is not how you get help from them. A real "genius" is someone who joins a board, asks for help, and then starts spewing nonsense and calling names when he doesn't like the answer he gets. This is where I tell you to shove it, and find your own way.
 
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