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Well, it appears that the pumilio shipment should be arriving as scheduled, and that I will be examining all of the imports. I have been contacted by many individuals (and so has Glen) that would like me to pick out their frogs. I am not recieving any compensation for this service, but am happy to provide it. I will not pick frogs for anyone if the frog does not meet my approval. This is not a guarentee of long term success, but I will do my best.

Because of this, many people have asked me to pick them out a pair or pairs. I can not guarentee that I can do this with perfect or near perfect accuracy. Which brings me to my point...

Does anyone here have good firsthand guidelines to sexing pumilio. I am looking for accurate information and suggestions. I know certain things to look for, and calling is a dead give away. If you have solid information please give me advice. Please do not respond if your are speculating or have heard something from a friend of a friend.

Thank you. I hope this will help promote the captive breeding of some outstanding, beautiful, rare frogs. Thank you for your time.

Dr. Frye
 
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Look at the throat. Males will have a darken vocal sac and the female will not. This is about the only way you can tell that I know of besides calling ;)

Have fun on the trip,
 

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David,

Wow....this is not an easy question to answer. I also do not envy your job of having to sex so many frogs - I think that your task will be a hard one.

The only way I have been able to determine sex with pumilio is by observing their behavior. Since all of these frogs have been 'farm raised' I think it will be a safe assumption they have all be exposed to the same environment, therefore my suggestion should not expose the frogs to something they haven't already been exposed to.

Place a group of frogs in a tank and watch for breeding behavior. When you observe the behavior, pull that pair out. Continue with this process until you have determined the sex of all the frogs. I know this is more time consuming, but I think it is reliable.

In addition, I have noticed with the pumilio we had (which you now own) the males seem to be more timid and hide more. There is also the size difference with the females & the males but I don't know how reliable that will be since the frogs will be stressed.

I have also been considering using another method, but I do not know how practical it would be. I have thought about taking pictures of a frog's toe pads at a high resolution and then opening the photo on the computer. You should be able to zoom in on the toes. If there is enough differentiation between the male\female toe pads in the pumilio, you might be able to use this method to sex the questionable frogs.

Good luck,

Melissa



Dr. Frye said:
Well, it appears that the pumilio shipment should be arriving as scheduled, and that I will be examining all of the imports. I have been contacted by many individuals (and so has Glen) that would like me to pick out their frogs. I am not recieving any compensation for this service, but am happy to provide it. I will not pick frogs for anyone if the frog does not meet my approval. This is not a guarentee of long term success, but I will do my best.

Because of this, many people have asked me to pick them out a pair or pairs. I can not guarentee that I can do this with perfect or near perfect accuracy. Which brings me to my point...

Does anyone here have good firsthand guidelines to sexing pumilio. I am looking for accurate information and suggestions. I know certain things to look for, and calling is a dead give away. If you have solid information please give me advice. Please do not respond if your are speculating or have heard something from a friend of a friend.

Thank you. I hope this will help promote the captive breeding of some outstanding, beautiful, rare frogs. Thank you for your time.

Dr. Frye
 
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Once again, I am not planning on sexing every frog there, but I will try to pick out animals that people request. If someone asked for a pair, I may be able to pick that out, and I may not. I will not guarentee the sex of these frogs. I will not even consider mixing any of the pumilio together - that is asking for a disasterous contamination.

What I was looking for on this thread were good suggestions from people who have had good luck/skill sexing the frogs.
 

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Dr. Frye,

If you reread my post, I put a disclaimer in the paragraph before which stated:

Since all of these frogs have been 'farm raised' I think it will be a safe assumption they have all be exposed to the same environment, therefore my suggestion should not expose the frogs to something they haven't already been exposed to.
Maybe I didn't go into enough detail, but from what I have been able to learn about the 'farm raised process' is each frog is not raised individually, but in a group enviroment. I did not say, toss all the morphs in one tank and go from there, give me a little credit. If you reread my post, my suggestion is based on the assumption all contamination has already taken place.
I will not even consider mixing any of the pumilio together - that is asking for a disasterous contamination.

What I was looking for on this thread were good suggestions from people who have had good luck/skill sexing the frogs.
I think you are getting what you asked for. In addition, the use of a digital camera to take a closer look at physical differences is something that might help you out. I have already used the camera method on other frogs, just not pumilio. If you are not satisfied with our response, you might try making a post on frognet. I am sure there are more people on that list who have more experience, skill & luck with the sexing of pumilio.


Dr. Frye said:
Once again, I am not planning on sexing every frog there, but I will try to pick out animals that people request. If someone asked for a pair, I may be able to pick that out, and I may not. I will not guarentee the sex of these frogs. I will not even consider mixing any of the pumilio together - that is asking for a disasterous contamination.

What I was looking for on this thread were good suggestions from people who have had good luck/skill sexing the frogs.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Like Ben said, look at the throat region. Males have a noticeably darkened throat from calling (makes sense considering their vocal sacs expand so far).

-Bill J.
 
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There is a great saying about assuming. I wish I could come up with a catchy phrase about speculation.
If you have solid information please give me advice. Please do not respond if your are speculating or have heard something from a friend of a friend.
 

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For such an elegant profession, you have a lousy way with people Dr. Frye.

Be gracious about any and all information you receive when anyone is nice enough to try and help.

s
Dr. Frye said:
There is a great saying about assuming. I wish I could come up with a catchy phrase about speculation.
If you have solid information please give me advice. Please do not respond if your are speculating or have heard something from a friend of a friend.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Well, I have been asked by certain members not to give out medical advice, and I made a very specific request. And I either have to ignore or explain the error of statements like
I think it will be a safe assumption they have all be exposed to the same environment
 
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Amen Scott!

Not to add fuel to the fire, but i am a little confused as to why people are requesting a service from you that you admit yourself that you have no expertise in.

I think it is admirable that you are not on any account going to guarentee the sexed pairs, but i would think that any advice to help you better service your customers would be appreciated and not torn apart on the basis of symantics.

Just food for thought.....
 

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So be gracious and ignore it then.

s
Dr. Frye said:
Well, I have been asked by certain members not to give out medical advice, and I made a very specific request. And I either have to ignore or explain the error of statements like
I think it will be a safe assumption they have all be exposed to the same environment
 
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Discussion Starter #14
I highly advise everyone to return to the subject of this thread.
User Agreement:

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed).
 

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I concur that the only way to do it easily is by the darkened throat of males, plus females can be enormous, males are slighter. However, if these are farm raised, will the males be of calling age, and will the females be of breeding age, and therefore rotund?

Christina
 

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DR Frye,
assuming they are adult frogs sent, you will essentially be dealing with sexing wild caught frogs. some trends to look for is males will be generally more slender, will have the darkened throat pouch as Ben, Bill and Christina Have all vouched for, and males will generally seem a little more anxious, while female will tend to be more tranquil. For some reason the males often will be the ones that are running around collecting containers, while females seem to more often than not hunker down and "relax", or are often not as agitated or excitable . Also, mist the frogs like mad early in the morning and this will almost definetely ensure that any healthy mature males will call. simply separate out the calling males. Keep misting as you separate, because as you potentially remove larger, possible more dominant males, others smaller, younger, weaker? males may begin to call. In most cases healthy pumilio males should call.

wild females are generaly overall larger frogs, however wildones are not neccesarily fatter than males, though this is often the case, a better bet may be to look at the comparative body length of the frogs as females will usually be slightly longer than males. In captivity our frogs are often a lot fatter than their wild relatives, so be careful when sexing based on experiences with captive frogs, sometimes males in captivity are equally fat and even larger than females, but i have not found this to be the case in any populations i've seen in the wild, though my experience with pumilio is limited to a dozen or so costa rican populations. Some of the small panamanian forms may pose an interesting challenge.

hopefully all goes well with the shipment, they land safe and are in good health and using the advice provided by dendroboard members you should be able to sex them fairly accurately.

goodluck

mark
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you very much, Mark Pepper, Christina, Ben and Bill. Like I said earlier, no frogs will be mixed together - but the spaying should still cause a lot of healthy males to call, right? I'll spray like a mad man.
 
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Discussion Starter #18
DNA Test

The best and most accurate way to sex these pumilio is to do a DNA test. Then everyone would be satisfied with a guaranteed sexed 1.1 pair. Problem solved.
 

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DNA testing on 320 (160x2) imported pumilio would cost a crap load of money. Not to mention it would probably take months to get all the results back. I would stick with the calling or darkened throat method.
 
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Correction

Actually I believe Mr. Glenn Novotny said "160 in TOTAL" which means 160 (80x2). Only way to go if you want guaranteed accurately sexed 1.1 pairs. You get what you pay for.
 
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