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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have heard they are illegal in the US. I am in the UK and have seen some for sale. What are they like to deal with?
Thanks
 

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Like Ranitomeya, eats Melos and springs. Breeding takes place in Brazil nut pods (obviously). They like it on the warmer side, very humid. In nature they are found foraging among the leaf litter, as well in vivaria, so a forest floor biotope is essential. Lots of leaf litter and broad leafed plants to make a shaded understory.
Edit: they are illegal anywhere outside of Brazil.

D
 

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Edit: they are illegal anywhere outside of Brazil.

D
They are actually illegal to own in Brazil as well lol.

I'm pretty sure no frogs have been legally exported out of Brazil. The Brazilian government would see every single one of those frogs in captivity as being illegal. I think this would also put A. quinquevittatus in the "illegal" category

However local governments adopt their own laws on the subject, so I don't know if they are considered "illegal" by the European governments. Here's a thread on the subject:

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/general-discussion/5603-d-castaneoticus-legal-status.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The shop in the Uk selling them is very renowned here. I would be very surprised if they were illegal!!
(shop is dartfrog.co.uk)
 

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I think this would also put A. quinquevittatus in the "illegal" category
I believe they were legally exported from Peru, back when many thumbs were lumped under Dendobates quinquevittatus.


They also occur in Bolivia. I have no idea what their laws are though.
 

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Out of curiosity did brazil never legally export any frogs because it was actually against the law since the beginning of the hobby or are they just saying they never said it was OK?
 

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Brazil doesn't really allow the exportation of any of it's native species to my knowledge.

Here's the story of how they got into the hobby from Pat Nabor's website:

"This frog is considered by some to be illegal in the United States, in fact anywhere out side of Brazil. The government of Brazil has had a policy of not allowing the export of their wild life, and in general dart frogs have not been exported from Brazil. The story on the Brazil nut frogs is that in the early nineties, a few specimens were allowed to be exported from Brazil for use by a US institution, which shall remain nameless. These frogs apparently were released to the institution on the condition that they remain the property of the Brazilian government, and that any and all offspring would also remain the property of the Brazilian government. In addition the frogs were not to be released to any other institutions or the public. Obviously this condition was not followed, and the frogs were released to another institution, which then released offspring to the US frog hobby. I am unsure how seriously to take this, there are numerous frogs in the US hobby whose ancestors came from illegal sources, or were never legally exported from the country of origin. This list would include any frog that originates in Brazil, such as A. quinquevittatus, and A. galactonotus. To the best of my knowledge neither frog has been legally exported from Brazil, but both found there way to Europe, and then captive bred offspring were sent to the US with “legal” paperwork, generated by European governments which were not very particular about the frogs paper trail, and documentation of the breeders frogs."

Saurian Enterprises, Inc :: Adelphobates castaneoticus “Brazil Nut frog”

BASICALLY, the frogs are like chinese pandas -- the frogs are the property of the brazilian government, and any and all offspring would also be property of the government.
 

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But how could anyone make that statement providing they came in during the wave of exports in the 90s? Could one not just label them as 'Peruvian' and they would be perfectly legal?

D
 

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I believe they were legally exported from Peru, back when many thumbs were lumped under Dendobates quinquevittatus.


They also occur in Bolivia. I have no idea what their laws are though.
I have no idea where they came from (way before I got into the hobby), but the info from Pat Nabor's website makes it sound like they came from Brazil.

Here's a link to their range:
IUCN Red List maps

It crosses over into Colombia, Peru, and Bolivia. But I'd say 90% of their range is in Brazil

Also consider galactonotus, a more common frog in the hobby. According to IUCN, they are endemic to Brazil, so they would be similarly illegal, since any animals would've had to have been smuggled illegally out of the country.
IUCN Red List maps
 

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Sadly, there 'is a chance' that if USFW decided to check out your frogs and saw them.. and knew what they were, they could confiscate your whole collection. These frogs have been in the hobby for a very long time, so I don't know what would happen. It's always a possiblity. Sadly, though there aren't many in the hobby, they seem to breed fairly well so it's not an issue of constantly needing more.

-Nish
 

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Quinqs are Peruvian, not castis. Sorry for the confusion.
What Davis is referring to is the fact that several species were imported as quinquevittatus before they were later split out into their own species. However this is not accepted by USF&W. This has been repeatedly hashed out on this and other forums.
This is the actual quote I got from USF&W when I asked about this species (posted in the discussion http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/wanted/71187-adelphobates-castaneoticus-4.html#post624799)

Dear Ed,

Thank you for your inquiry regarding Federal laws and regulations concerning the possession and/or sale of Brazil Nut Poison Arrow (Dart) Frog (Dendrobates castaneoticus) from Brazil. Our mission is working with others to conserve, protect, and enhance fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people.

Many frogs from Brazil are illegal to import into the United States, sell, or possess in the United States. These frogs are protected by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES). The Brazil Nut Poison Arrow Frog is one such example of a protected frog species that is sometimes seen in the pet trade.

The Federal statute dealing with the prohibitions of the Endangered Species Act and CITES can be found in 16 USC 1538. The Federal regulations dealing with the prohibitions can be found in 50 CFR 17 and 50 CFR 23. Both the statute and the regulations can be found at GPO Access Home Page.
Some comments

Ed
 

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Exactly why I don't own them - and anyone who really values the frogs they keep shouldn't own them either.

I'm not about to give any government entity a reason to confiscate my frogs.

Not that this is *likely* to happen - but by not having them you cut the odds down to nothing (in regards to Adelphobates castaneoticus anyhow).

s
Sadly, there 'is a chance' that if USFW decided to check out your frogs and saw them.. and knew what they were, they could confiscate your whole collection. These frogs have been in the hobby for a very long time, so I don't know what would happen. It's always a possiblity. Sadly, though there aren't many in the hobby, they seem to breed fairly well so it's not an issue of constantly needing more.

-Nish
 

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For the record I am not asking how they got in the hobby more of when exactly did Brazil make an official law that no one could export any of them?
 

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Brazil has a long history of not allowing the export of pretty much any of it's endemic wildlife. I can't exactly pinpoint when it became illegal, but the earliest mention I can find of it in the Brazilian legislature is in the 1967 Fauna Protection Act (Law n. 5.197/1967). Which would predate any exports.

Here is the law translated by google:
Google Translate

And here it is untranslated (if that's how you roll):
L5197

The first article states "The animals of any species at any stage of their development and naturally living out of captivity, constituting the wildlife and their nests, shelters and natural breeding are State property, its use, persecution, destruction, hunting is prohibited or harvesting."
This basically means that all wildlife are the property of the Brazilian government (the State) and it is illegal to harvest them (collect/remove them from their natural habitat).

The third article states "Trade in specimens of wild animals and objects products and involving in their hunting, persecution, destruction or harvesting is prohibited." Which explicitly says that engaging in the trade of wildlife is illegal.

Sooooo in brief, castaneoticus and galactonotus are illegal to own (both here in the US, as well as in Brazil) in the eyes of the Brazilian government. The US government, however, is a different matter
 

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Hey Ed, since galacs are also from Brazil, shouldn't they be under a similar legality?
Not quite. In the case of galactonus they were illegally taken to Europe, then legally imported into the USA.
 

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So are Brazilian Yellow Head D. tinctorius illegal too?
All Brazilian frogs are illegal to own but you will probably only get in trouble for owning/selling castaneoticus. The galactonotus are very widespread and were sort of imported in a legal yet not quite legal way.

Castaneoticus are very specific and not too common. If USFW wanted to take your frogs for some reason they could.

A tinc morph would probably not get noticed as illegal because of its coloration.

-Nish
 
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