[sp.moss]

I’m a beginner here, still reading through the board about keeping PDF’s.
So i stumble across ranitomeya family, really like the pattern and colors on them and start reading about them in here.

And somehow, i’m kinda interested to know to about one thing, how large of a vivarium for these guys to live in?.

I know that in these board people go “the larger the better” for PDF’s since they are so active walking and climbing everywhere they want, that’s what i want to know.
Some say they keep in 18” cube or 18x18x24 vivs for a pair or trios, and some other post i read that they keep in 12x12x18 with only pairs with more wood for them to climb and perch. I don’t want to call these guys evil for keeping the ranitomeya in a 12x12x18, they probably give their best on keeping them in a small viv and giving a best life for the frogs to live.

So, i want all keepers that keep their ranitomeya’s in 18”, an 18x18x24, and 12x12x18 to share your experience keeping them in these vivarium sizes. I feel like even some people out there want to know about keeping these guys too. Send pics too for sharing or examples.

This is probably controversial topic to discuss so please, DO NOT START A WAR in here, i want it to be peaceful.

 

[fishingguy12345]

I keep all my Ranitomeya species in 18x18x24" terrariums, or larger.

I have 2.2.4 Ranitomeya sirensis "Rio Pachitea yellow " in a 36x18x24" tank:
Vivarium discussion Sept 28, 2020

1.1 Ranitomeya imitator "chazuta" in an 18x12x36" terrarium
Build log: 18x12x36" vertical terrarium


0.0.3 Ranitomeya amazonica "Iquitos" in a 18x18x24"
Vivarium discussion September 15

1.2 Ranitomeya uakarii in a 18x18x24" transition terrarium
Viv discussion 2020-08-23

 

[Socratic Monologue]

Digging through the archives, a person can find all sorts of housing reports -- my (not) favorite of all time was regarding long term keeping and breeding P. terribilis in a 10 gallon fish tank.

The more useful comments are regarding the reasons why a certain sized (and designed) viv is more beneficial to the animals, and it is hard to make the case that smaller is better (since the 'easier to find food' arguments are a patent non-starter for healthy darts that aren't <1 month OOW, and there aren't any other reasons from the frogs' POV).

After keeping vanzolinii and imitator for a couple years in 12 x 12 x 18, I moved them into InSitus (a tad more volume than 18 x 18 x 24) and the frogs are behaving as if the move has been beneficial. For a group of more than a pair of thumbs, I'm coming to think that this size viv is still smaller than is good; my 2.2 sirensis in an 18 x 18 x 24 could use more space.

Imitator and vanzo vivs

Reticulata viv

 

[sp.moss]

Digging through the archives, a person can find all sorts of housing reports -- my (not) favorite of all time was regarding long term keeping and breeding P. terribilis in a 10 gallon fish tank.

The more useful comments are regarding the reasons why a certain sized (and designed) viv is more beneficial to the animals, and it is hard to make the case that smaller is better (since the 'easier to find food' arguments are a patent non-starter for healthy darts that aren't <1 month OOW, and there aren't any other reasons from the frogs' POV).

After keeping vanzolinii and imitator for a couple years in 12 x 12 x 18, I moved them into InSitus (a tad more volume than 18 x 18 x 24) and the frogs are behaving as if the move has been beneficial. For a group of more than a pair of thumbs, I'm coming to think that this size viv is still smaller than is good; my 2.2 sirensis in an 18 x 18 x 24 could use more space.

Imitator and vanzo vivs

Reticulata viv

Beautiful vivs you have there and i notice you didn’t have a background for all three vivs. Is having a viv without a background ok for dart frogs?, since majority of post in the board make diy or use the already have background (exo terra).

 

[Socratic Monologue]

Yes, not having a background is fine and I personally think better than having one. I don't use backgrounds as the couple I've made (cork mosaic; spray foam is miserable stuff and my hobby is supposed to be enjoyable) haven't been satisfactory and I can make a more usable enclosure without them. I also like being able to break down vivs relatively easily to disinfect them and the hardscape materials to use for other purposes (though with Ranitomeya vivs teardowns are traumatic -- tads and eggs are everywhere -- and best avoided if possible).

Also, I don't think backgrounds look at all "natural", but that's just my personal evaluation and aesthetics don't make one bit of husbandry difference anyway.

 

[bulbophyllum]

Beautiful vivs you have there and i notice you didn’t have a background for all three vivs. Is having a viv without a background ok for dart frogs?

I usually don't use backgrounds. If you fill the tank with enough branches and plants so the frogs can use the whole space you really don't see or need a background. It's a often matter of aesthetics. But, they can be functional as well by adding planting space and shelves.

 

[sp.moss]

Yes, not having a background is fine and I personally think better than having one. I don't use backgrounds as the couple I've made (cork mosaic; spray foam is miserable stuff and my hobby is supposed to be enjoyable) haven't been satisfactory and I can make a more usable enclosure without them. I also like being able to break down vivs relatively easily to disinfect them and the hardscape materials to use for other purposes (though with Ranitomeya vivs teardowns are traumatic -- tads and eggs are everywhere -- and best avoided if possible).

Also, I don't think backgrounds look at all "natural", but that's just my personal evaluation and aesthetics don't make one bit of husbandry difference anyway.

Off topic question :
1. What size is the ‘nurse log’ viv?.
2. How are your ranitomeya’s behavior in the viv since it’s has no background?, are they still climbing around on the glass?.
3. Can this type of vivarium can be achieved if i decided to build for azureus?.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

1. All three vivs in those two links are InSItu Amazonia, 22" x 17.5" x 24"high. I think them a great size for a pair of Ranitomeya.

2. Imitator and vanzolinii can and do climb glass very well, but I mostly see them on the hardscape. They're quite bold. My reticulata are shy-ish (they're usually secluded, though when they're out they're not particularly skittish), and keep to the leaf litter. I'm still figuring out what conditions the reticulata prefer, though, so as I keep them longer I'll certainly have more insight.

FWIW, I wouldn't recommend R. reticulata as a first frog, nor as a first thumbnail (that is, all and only the Ranitomeya). Imitator, vanzolinii, and sirensis are fine first thumbs, and perhaps a decent first dart for someone who is willing to research extensively and not cut corners on the enclosure (either on the equipment or the design -- no DIY experiments, and no water features or other not-for-the-frogs sidetracks), to seek out healthy well-bred animals, and so on.

3. Here's my tinctorius viv. I keep 'Bakhuis', one of the smallest locales, so a considerably larger viv for tinc 'Azureus' would be best -- maybe a 36 x 18 x 24 (L x W x H). Lately my tincs have been using the hardscape well -- they do shelter in the larger Neo in the back left corner, and frequently venture out onto the ghostwood (though not as skillfully or as far as a Ranitomeya would). They use leaf litter more than I thought they would, which is cool because I like leaf litter.

 

[hansgruber7]

I put my ranitomeya in the Amazonia InSitu and I love it. I personally wouldn't go much smaller than that. They are very active and move around a lot given the right set up.