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I just wanted to warn everyone not to mix separate types of frogs. I thought I could defeat the odds, making a beautiful mixed display in as little as 75 gallons. Well I was most definitely wrong. The tank contained 2 azureus, 2 cobalts, 3 orange sirensis, and 2 vittatus. I thought all the frogs were getting along pretty well until I came home one day to find one of the cobalts being pinned under water by an azureus. By the time I discovered what was happening the poor cobalt had drown. So I removed the remaining cobalt to a tank of its own and thought to myself, "Well that was horrible, at least the others don't fight." As it turns out, vittatus don't like sharing food with other frogs. I came home today to find a vittatus and an azureus fighting. The vittatus was apparently trying to consume the azureus. The poor azureus didn't survive either. Now I lost my female cobalt and my male azureus, and am scrambling to put together enclosures for all the remaining frogs. Please don't repeat my mistake.
 
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I just wanted to warn everyone not to mix separate types of frogs. I thought I could defeat the odds, making a beautiful mixed display in as little as 75 gallons. Well I was most definitely wrong. The tank contained 2 azureus, 2 cobalts, 3 orange sirensis, and 2 vittatus. I thought all the frogs were getting along pretty well until I came home one day to find one of the cobalts being pinned under water by an azureus. By the time I discovered what was happening the poor cobalt had drown. So I removed the remaining cobalt to a tank of its own and thought to myself, "Well that was horrible, at least the others don't fight." As it turns out, vittatus don't like sharing food with other frogs. I came home today to find a vittatus and an azureus fighting. The vittatus was apparently trying to consume the azureus. The poor azureus didn't survive either. Now I lost my female cobalt and my male azureus, and am scrambling to put together enclosures for all the remaining frogs. Please don't repeat my mistake.
I'm sorry for your loss. I don't want to sound like an %#* for saying this, but there is a reason why we don't recommend any type of mixing on this forum... Again, sorry for the loss, good thing you are separating the frogs.
 

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I feel sorry for the frogs.
This tragedy, was totally 100% avoidable and preventable.
Add this to the list of mixed tank epic failures.
This thread should be mandatory reading for anyone asking the question, why can't I mix species?
Mods, you should sticky this.
 

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I just wanted to warn everyone not to mix separate types of frogs. I thought I could defeat the odds, making a beautiful mixed display in as little as 75 gallons. Well I was most definitely wrong. The tank contained 2 azureus, 2 cobalts, 3 orange sirensis, and 2 vittatus. I thought all the frogs were getting along pretty well until I came home one day to find one of the cobalts being pinned under water by an azureus. By the time I discovered what was happening the poor cobalt had drown. So I removed the remaining cobalt to a tank of its own and thought to myself, "Well that was horrible, at least the others don't fight." As it turns out, vittatus don't like sharing food with other frogs. I came home today to find a vittatus and an azureus fighting. The vittatus was apparently trying to consume the azureus. The poor azureus didn't survive either. Now I lost my female cobalt and my male azureus, and am scrambling to put together enclosures for all the remaining frogs. Please don't repeat my mistake.
I've never run a mixed tank for any length of time - but maybe that wasn't the best mix for a mixed tank that size? I have no idea how their long term results are, but in mixed tank land (Europe...) I see things like one kind of somewhat mellow terrestrial frog (Epipedobates) and a very arboreal ranitomeya. A bunch of pretty agro things (tincs) that all hang out on the ground seems like it could go wrong pretty quick.

And sorry about your loss. Sh*t happens; best you can do after it happens is make sure that exact same sh*t, at the very least, doesn't happen again.

DISCLAIMER: I realize a mixed tank has nothing but downside potential for the frogs involved.
 

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Sorry for the setback.
Don't blame yourself for everything.
Consider that he drowning may have happened even if it was the same morph of tinc. Sex had alot to do with it. If you use that same tank for a group of tincs, you may want to get rid of that water feature.

Best of Luck
 

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Sorry for the setback.
Don't blame yourself for everything.
Consider that he drowning may have happened even if it was the same morph of tinc. Sex had alot to do with it. If you use that same tank for a group of tincs, you may want to get rid of that water feature.

Best of Luck
Who should we blame? Bigfoot? If Bigfoot was on this forum, and was warned not to mix but did it anyway Bigfoot would still be at fault.
Do you believe the losing team in Little League Baseball should still get trophys even though they lost and no one is ever ever to blame for anything? Do you believe in personal accountability?
 

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I don't think mixing really is the concern here in my opinion. I think the inability to understand the species that where put into the tank is where the issue lies. I think mix tanks are fine if you understand the constraints and requirement of the frogs placed in. Placing 4 species of frogs (3 of which are mostly terrestrial) is where the issue came in.
 

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How about let's just give him credit for admitting his mistake?

The vast majority of people on this here Board would *never* admit ....

1) That they did this
2) and ... that they messed up

So let's give the person credit - and leave it at that.

We have a good link to refer back to for the monthly post about the topic.

Good on you for posting FishFreak. Better luck with your future Vivarium endeavors - and we're here to help if you need it.

s
Who should we blame? Bigfoot? If Bigfoot was on this forum, and was warned not to mix but did it anyway Bigfoot would still be at fault.
Do you believe the losing team in Little League Baseball should still get trophys even though they lost and no one is ever ever to blame for anything? Do you believe in personal accountability?
 

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How about let's just give him credit for admitting his mistake?

The vast majority of people on this here Board would *never* admit ....

1) That they did this
2) and ... that they messed up

So let's give the person credit - and leave it at that.

We have a good link to refer back to for the monthly post about the topic.

Good on you for posting FishFreak. Better luck with your future Vivarium endeavors - and we're here to help if you need it.

s
I agree he did a big thing. In the future others can benefit from his mistake. If it prevents just one person from mixing species, good will have come from this. I'm sorry that frogs needlessly perished. I'm sure he feels bad about that.
 

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Who should we blame? Bigfoot? If Bigfoot was on this forum, and was warned not to mix but did it anyway Bigfoot would still be at fault.
Do you believe the losing team in Little League Baseball should still get trophys even though they lost and no one is ever ever to blame for anything? Do you believe in personal accountability?
Bigfoot doesnt keep dart frogs. Loosing little leaguers need no accountability, but encouragement. And female tincs tackle female tincs. The vittatus incident was avoidable but I think he knows that.

I wouldnt coach little league.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I agree he did a big thing. In the future others can benefit from his mistake. If it prevents just one person from mixing species, good will have come from this. I'm sorry that frogs needlessly perished. I'm sure he feels bad about that.
Oh I most definitely feel bad about it. I just buried the poor little azureus in the backyard... I guess I felt that the territoriality would be similar to cichlid fish, as in a bunch of them in the tank prevent anyone from really claiming a territory, breeding, or even any serious aggression.

The good news is that at least I have a whole bunch of 10, 20, and 30 gallon tanks laying around to separate the frogs into. I also just recently built a 125 gallon vert tank for a group of anthonyi I'd eventually like to obtain. I guess I best get started on a rack, and eventually try to find mates for the frogs I lost.

Do these sound like appropriate tanks for the following frogs?
75 gallon: orange sirensis group (currently in the process of obtaining a boy for my 3 what I think are girls)
20 gallon: cobalt pair
20 gallon: azureus pair
30 gallon: vittatus group (would like to add 2 more vittatus to my pair)
125 gallon vert: Santa Isabel anthonyi (most likely a group of 4)
 

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The vittatus was apparently trying to consume the azureus. The poor azureus didn't survive either.

Wow, I have to say while I support the general consensus that mixed tanks should mostly be avoided, especially by people new to the hobby I'm surprised at just how violently this one failed.

I gotta know just outta personal curiosity :confused: Did the vittatus like actually bite the azureus, and inflict wounds and stuff?

I wouldn't be surprised to see wrestling but a dart attacking with its mouth like that? ...I've never seen that.

Anyways beyond the mixing issue this illustrates how it is good for anyone, not just noobs to have spare tanks/temporary containers and extra supplies around in case things go wrong.

Do these sound like appropriate tanks for the following frogs?
75 gallon: orange sirensis group (currently in the process of obtaining a boy for my 3 what I think are girls)
20 gallon: cobalt pair
20 gallon: azureus pair
30 gallon: vittatus group (would like to add 2 more vittatus to my pair)
125 gallon vert: Santa Isabel anthonyi (most likely a group of 4)

Nothing wrong with a 75, but you might be better served putting the vittatus group or anthonyi group in the 75 and using the 30 for the sirensis. Pics of the individual setups would help us to give even better advice.
 

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Hey, I really hate to be that guy, but this was an irresponsible way to dispose of your frog, especially since it came from a mixed tank. Perhaps a viking funeral would be better.
Yes, I agree. You're introducing novel pathogens into your geographic environment that way... NOT a good thing.
 

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Wow, I have to say while I support the general consensus that mixed tanks should mostly be avoided, especially by people new to the hobby I'm surprised at just how violently this one failed.

I gotta know just outta personal curiosity :confused: Did the vittatus like actually bite the azureus, and inflict wounds and stuff?

I wouldn't be surprised to see wrestling but a dart attacking with its mouth like that? ...I've never seen that.

Anyways beyond the mixing issue this illustrates how it is good for anyone, not just noobs to have spare tanks/temporary containers and extra supplies around in case things go wrong.




Nothing wrong with a 75, but you might be better served putting the vittatus group or anthonyi group in the 75 and using the 30 for the sirensis. Pics of the individual setups would help us to give even better advice.
Dave here's a link to the 75 gal mixed tank.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/be...freaks-75-gallon-mixed-species-terrarium.html

Fishfreak, how long have you been keeping frogs? How long was this tank up and running? I only ask because I came from a background of lizards and cichlids. Clearly dart frogs are not cichlids. Where in your research about dart frogs did you read that frogs could be treated like cichlids? You said in the first post "I came home one day to find one of the cobalts being pinned under water by an azureus. By the time I discovered what was happening the poor cobalt had drown" when was that day? That was a sign of trouble right there.
I do want to give you a pat on the back for admitting your mistake. I know it doesn't make you feel better that two frogs died unnecessarily at your hands but perhaps no more will. All the plans you have for your further tanks sound spot on. You could either keep the vittatus or the anthonyi in the 75 and they would both make a great group frog. I have both species growing up and I wouldn't hesitate to help you acquire them.
The point I'm trying to make here to you, and BUZZ1 is, we have to have personal accountability. Yes DB and the other forums are great to come and look at pretty pictures of frogs. But it's more than that, it's a great research tool. We all must be responsible and accountable for doing the necessary research to avoid tragedies like this. No one can do it for you, the responsibility is on you the frog keeper.
 

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