[farmchica22]

Okay, so here's the story:

In December I purchased 2 bronze auratus (approximately 5 months old). They were both doing splendidly until about mid-January. The bluer one suddenly began to waste away and lose the stickiness of his tongue (see post in Disease Treatment: Wasting Frog). Well, by the time I got stuff for him he was already pretty much dead. I took him back to the breeder and got a replacement for free.

Then, last week the other one (from the original pair) developed a "puffy eye" (see Disease Treatment: "Inverted eyelid?") which soon turned red but then after a couple days went away and throughout the whole ordeal she was acting perfectly normal (hopping, eating, etc). Then, just last Wednesday, I come home to find her dead (see Disease Treatment: "Death: cause unknown"). By this time I was really quite devasted. What was I doing wrong? They recieved all their vitamins weekly (Herptivite and Rep-Cal)...

Now, just this week that last auratus that I have has gone downhill rapidly. He started being very lethargic (sitting in the waterdish for hours a day and then not hopping more than 4in. from it when he did move). Just yesterday he stopped eating as well. I talked to Dr. Frye, and we both eventually decided that he was too far gone for any medication to work. He had also developed the "puffy eye" but it only lasted for 1 day and never got red.

He is now in iso. I was able to obtain some Metronidazole and he seems to have spurts of activity quickly followed by going "limp as a noodle". When I first found him this morning all 4 of his legs were outstretched and his mouth was gaping open, I think he was officially dead at that time, but I performed a kind of frog CPR (not sure if that is really possible, but it seemed to work) and he slowly came back around.

He is not dead yet, but I see little hope for the little guy. I am now utterly devastated and feel as though this whole long catastrophe is my fault, although I'm not really sure how I could have prevented any of it...

Perhaps it was the move from the 10gallon to the 20L? Or maybe the temperature was too high from the new light? Do auratus stress easily? I just don't know...

Just thought I'd share my experience in case anyone else has ever experienced any of the things I've come across.

 

[Arklier]

IMHO, dusting food once a week is not enough vitamins for growing frogs. Most everyone on this board dusts food more frequently, at least for juvies. I dust every feeding.

 

[Scott]

I dust about every other feeding. I rotate amont Minerall, Hertevite and Repcal.

I only feed two or three times a week also.

s

 

[Ed]

There are many potential causes of these problems. I am not a vet but I would guess that there is something disrupting the ion balance and/or the osmotic balance of the frogs.
There are several possible causes of this, insufficient dusting, bacterial infections, and/or fungal infections (including chytrid).
Unlike caudates anurans seem to have little difficulty with acidic substrates interfering with the ion balance.
With frogs that are acting this way, try to get them to sit in a "normal" posture and drip a sugar solution on them a couple of times a day and spray them with dechlorinated water several times a day. In addition if you can get calcium gluconate, then I suggest soaking the frog in that (check with the vet for suggested lengths of time).
If the frog dies, I strongly suggest getting a necropsy performed on the frog depending on the results you may need to tear down and sterilize the tank.


Just some guesses
Ed

 

[ManofMusic]

I'm just going to say the jury is out concerning dusting frequency, at least in my opinion. I gave my leucs undusted flies for a year, with absolutely 0 problems - they are doing great to this day! Additionally, I know in other herps (tortoises, chameleons) one should be quite wary about giving TOO MANY vitamins, and I've heard that this is the same for darts as well. It seems to me like this wouldn't be a vitamin deficiency, as it manifested itself so quickly. At least I don't think we should jump and say "the frogs weren't dusted everyday, that has to be the problem!" Just my two cents...

 

[bbrock]

I'm just going to say the jury is out concerning dusting frequency, at least in my opinion. I gave my leucs undusted flies for a year, with absolutely 0 problems - they are doing great to this day! Additionally, I know in other herps (tortoises, chameleons) one should be quite wary about giving TOO MANY vitamins, and I've heard that this is the same for darts as well. It seems to me like this wouldn't be a vitamin deficiency, as it manifested itself so quickly. At least I don't think we should jump and say "the frogs weren't dusted everyday, that has to be the problem!" Just my two cents...

I hear what you are saying and partially agree with you but in the 7 years I've been in the hobby, there is no question that I've seen far more cases of frogs "going south" from vitamin deficiency than I have of frogs remaining perfectly healthy with no supplementation. I honestly don't see how frogs can get a nutritionally balanced diet without feeding meadow plankton or having an incredibly diverse array of feeder insects reared on an equally diverse array of media. Now, it is true that frogs can go down from over vitamin supplmentation (particularly vitamin A) and I've seen this myself. But I think the evidence is pretty heavily weighted toward a need for regular vitamin and mineral supplementation.

I just posted on another thread about some problems I had with pumilio supplementation a few years ago. One cb froglet died of apparent liver failure most likely from too much vitamin A, and 3 other frogs showed acute signs of calcium deficiency. I was using Nekton-Rep color at the time which is wicked on vit A so I quit and following Ed's helpful coaching at the time, I changed dusting schedules to vitamin dust about 2 out of three feedings and plain calcium powder on other feedings. Like Scott, I only feed about 2-3 times a week. I also added UVB to the mix and have had no more problems.

Bottom line is that I think it's important to realize you can overdo vitamins but given the evidence, I think vitamin an mineral supplements has to be one of the first things to consider when faced with symptoms like these. Like Ed said, there could be other causes too but you can't rule out vitamin and mineral deficiency yet.