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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
so the other one you might see was more for question this will acually be the journal.

Now let me start on the design of it and will follow by a picture to see it more clearly.on my left side i want a waterfall that flows into a river rock bed and then a very small pond.I know the land area is more needed(hence the small pond). But on the other side i would like to do a buttress tree with roots goes into the pond, as well have fake rocks to surround the pond. I will created most iof this out of stryofoam and some out of Great stuff foam. For the backing im planing on gs foam agian with peat moss and coco bedding.i will have a falso bottom cover with weed blocker.

Ive been on here day and night since getting back into PDFs months ago.Also learned all i can from this site as well as spending weeks on looking how to create a good water fall and buttress tree. I know these question have been answer but not to my design or desire. As well i want this a habitat to match were P.terribis mints live


today i will start it with construction a false bottom and planning out where to things . I order a 501 canister filter and as well as other supplies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
So today i order supplies i needed and started working on the false bottom

first i made a box off area to access the pump intake just in case



next i put plastic around it and silicone and hot glue it. My goal is only having water in the pump area and the pond i dont want it all under the false bottom. but the water that go through will be access to drain.



next i added pcv pipe from the pond to the pump area



then made my false bottom



tomorrow im working on the false rock in the pond. im going to silicone the pipe into the pond area and pump area.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
sorry i havent update it , i been on vacation and had no time to work on it . today i finished putting in the water pipe to the water fall and completly seal off the pump area so no water can leak in to the bottom. i will post picture tomorrow . and ill start working on everything eles once i know the pump cant leak
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
progress

used gs foam to secure the pipe and then paint over with drylok and then silicone everthing to make sure no leaking i have to wait till tomorrow till i can put water in it



with egg crate on top


and the begin on the river and have alot of work to do such as waterfall, a fake tree,backing,pond area

about 10% complete
 

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My questions and comments:

That waterfall idea pic looks really cool, I like it. I think the waterfall looks a little fake just because of the way it's so "perfectly made" to hold the water in the cascade and the end doesn't blend into the bottom. But the rock surface overall looks real, the pond looks nice, and it's a cool looking viv.

I am wondering why you are so set on keeping the pump and pond separate from the rest of the tank? What is the reason?

There are some issues I see with that idea (just offering opinions/advice, which is what I assume you'd like so hope it's well received)

- the false bottom in the rest of the tank under the substrate will fill up with water anyway (I think you said you have a drain for it, but if it's going to fill up anyway why separate it from the pond?)

- if your waterfall or pond or pump area or a combination of those leaks into the rest of the tank and there's not enough water under the rest of the false bottom, your pond and pump will run dry

- I believe there is a 99.9% chance that the sealing you put around the pump or pond or pipe will leak at some point. This is by no means any negative thing about you or your work, it is just a fact that it's nearly impossible to seal various seams off especially when there are all kinds of shapes going on. Especially I would worry about the plastic you put around the pump column.

- You will not have access to the pipe that goes from the pond to the pump, so if it clogs there is not much you can do (other than forcing a bunch of water down it somehow, which might work)

I don't mean to be negative, I am just pointing out my opinions and suggestions. But I do think things are looking really good in your pics and the example idea looks sweet. I am subscribing to this thread
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
My questions and comments:

That waterfall idea pic looks really cool, I like it. I think the waterfall looks a little fake just because of the way it's so "perfectly made" to hold the water in the cascade and the end doesn't blend into the bottom. But the rock surface overall looks real, the pond looks nice, and it's a cool looking viv.

I am wondering why you are so set on keeping the pump and pond separate from the rest of the tank? What is the reason?

There are some issues I see with that idea (just offering opinions/advice, which is what I assume you'd like so hope it's well received)

- the false bottom in the rest of the tank under the substrate will fill up with water anyway (I think you said you have a drain for it, but if it's going to fill up anyway why separate it from the pond?)

- if your waterfall or pond or pump area or a combination of those leaks into the rest of the tank and there's not enough water under the rest of the false bottom, your pond and pump will run dry

- I believe there is a 99.9% chance that the sealing you put around the pump or pond or pipe will leak at some point. This is by no means any negative thing about you or your work, it is just a fact that it's nearly impossible to seal various seams off especially when there are all kinds of shapes going on. Especially I would worry about the plastic you put around the pump column.

- You will not have access to the pipe that goes from the pond to the pump, so if it clogs there is not much you can do (other than forcing a bunch of water down it somehow, which might work)

I don't mean to be negative, I am just pointing out my opinions and suggestions. But I do think things are looking really good in your pics and the example idea looks sweet. I am subscribing to this thread
i so determinded to separate the pond from the rest becasue im not sure how to keep the water in the pond and if i dont im not sure how to fill it up and keep it away so its not saturating the soil.Also on the other hand you make a real good point on the pipe clogging up. As well as thinking if i have a pump to keep the water clean i might as well keep the water under the false clean not stagnent. I had a waterfall a year ago and my whole vivarium failed including my frog which died :(. So now im worry about the waterfall being clean and separating it. you make very good points and your not being negative at all your helping me

Any suggestion on what i should do as well as i understand what you ment with the waterfall can you help me with this and
 

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I don't even have PDFs yet, so grab some salt, but...

I think that the idea would be to have the entire basement flooded, but you have a false bottom to keep the substrate above the water level. The pond will dip down below that water level, and rather than sealing up the pond you can just line it with gravel or whatever so that you don't see the eggcrate, but the water can just pass right through it. Now whether your water comes down the waterfall, along the stream, and into the pond... or whether it splashes out and soaks through the substrate, either way it ends up in the basement, ready to be recycled. I'd recommend some sort of prefilter on your pump to prevent it from getting clogged.

I come from an aquaria background, not frogs, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but that's how I would do it, if I were wanting to do it...

-GB (who's own long-term plans involve rain, but not a waterfall)
 

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something that I've been fooling with is taking a separate container and putting the pump in it along with water, stones, etc....so it really is a self-contained unit. The pump is accessible...and the waterfall just dribbles down gently into the rock filled unit...some emergent plants, like annubias will do well, as well as acorus. The substrate will come near the "top" of the container, but will not allow wicking...that will be an artificial "edge"made of screening with small stones, etc. as a "mat" so that frogs don't drag substrate into the water area, and can "wipe their feet"...it will be filled with various size pebbles so no fear of drowning...at least this is what I'm working toward....
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I don't even have PDFs yet, so grab some salt, but...

I think that the idea would be to have the entire basement flooded, but you have a false bottom to keep the substrate above the water level. The pond will dip down below that water level, and rather than sealing up the pond you can just line it with gravel or whatever so that you don't see the eggcrate, but the water can just pass right through it. Now whether your water comes down the waterfall, along the stream, and into the pond... or whether it splashes out and soaks through the substrate, either way it ends up in the basement, ready to be recycled. I'd recommend some sort of prefilter on your pump to prevent it from getting clogged.

I come from an aquaria background, not frogs, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about, but that's how I would do it, if I were wanting to do it...

-GB (who's own long-term plans involve rain, but not a waterfall)

You make a good point. What should i doo with the pipe i have already in place,?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
something that I've been fooling with is taking a separate container and putting the pump in it along with water, stones, etc....so it really is a self-contained unit. The pump is accessible...and the waterfall just dribbles down gently into the rock filled unit...some emergent plants, like annubias will do well, as well as acorus. The substrate will come near the "top" of the container, but will not allow wicking...that will be an artificial "edge"made of screening with small stones, etc. as a "mat" so that frogs don't drag substrate into the water area, and can "wipe their feet"...it will be filled with various size pebbles so no fear of drowning...at least this is what I'm working toward....

I got what your saying
 

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You make a good point. What should i doo with the pipe i have already in place,?
Sorry it took me a while to reply back, I've been dealing with a family emergency. Anyway, Gbeauvin's concept of the false bottom setup is pretty much spot on. If you have decided to go with the standard false bottom setup, personally, I would take out the pipe and at least some of the plastic that you wrapped around the corner column. (at least remove the bottom half of the plastic so the water can flow into corner where the pump is).

Just take out all the extraneous things that are not needed now that you are not going to try to separate things into contained areas. Check out a bunch of other threads on this forum about false bottoms, there are a lot of good ideas and suggestions. BTW I know how much it sucks to do a bunch of work and make something nice and then realize you have to tear it apart :( I recently have been working on a paludarium build and I spent a bunch of money and time making a nice divider, then after all that I realized it was going to leak because silicone doesn't adhere permanently to plexiglass. Doh!

Anyway, decide how deep the water/pond area should be filled with water, then make sure the false bottom is TALLER than that by at least an inch or more. That way the substrate on top of the false bottom won't be submerged in the water. Hope all that helps
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sorry it took me a while to reply back, I've been dealing with a family emergency. Anyway, Gbeauvin's concept of the false bottom setup is pretty much spot on. If you have decided to go with the standard false bottom setup, personally, I would take out the pipe and at least some of the plastic that you wrapped around the corner column. (at least remove the bottom half of the plastic so the water can flow into corner where the pump is).

Just take out all the extraneous things that are not needed now that you are not going to try to separate things into contained areas. Check out a bunch of other threads on this forum about false bottoms, there are a lot of good ideas and suggestions. BTW I know how much it sucks to do a bunch of work and make something nice and then realize you have to tear it apart :( I recently have been working on a paludarium build and I spent a bunch of money and time making a nice divider, then after all that I realized it was going to leak because silicone doesn't adhere permanently to plexiglass. Doh!

Anyway, decide how deep the water/pond area should be filled with water, then make sure the false bottom is TALLER than that by at least an inch or more. That way the substrate on top of the false bottom won't be submerged in the water. Hope all that helps
I know how emergences feel. and you are right completly . know what i rather get it right now and not later and wind up tearing everything down.since i dont want to rip out that pipe. ill cut out a piece of the bottom and do it that way.and i put water water in it and saw how much i need so this worked perfect.

All i have to do is start working on the pond and waterfall now.I hope you stay here and help me through to the end.
 

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I just got your PM youngherp, haven't been on the forum much in quite awhile. I've just skimmed the thread so far. Anyways to answer your question in the PM... To keep the soil from getting saturated the pond is below the false bottom and never filled above it. If you do that all you need is a dam to keep substrate from falling into the pond. So you can't have a pond any deeper then your false bottom but it keeps an excessive amount of water from wicking into the soil and you don't have to worry about a leak and your substrate getting flooded.

I do it this way because the substrate just above the false bottom is already pretty wet, and thats good thats how you keep humidity up, and it limits any wicking action from the pond. The area near the pond is just like the area above the false bottom so no more wicking occurs there then anywhere else and what does occur takes place very slowly.

If the pond is at substrate level the condensation at the sides of the pond interact with the drier substrate to produce a wicking action that basically sucks the water out of the pond and right into your drier levels of upper substrate. Basically the water crawls right up the side of the pond and into your soil, sounds weird but that's science :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I just got your PM youngherp, haven't been on the forum much in quite awhile. I've just skimmed the thread so far. Anyways to answer your question in the PM... To keep the soil from getting saturated the pond is below the false bottom and never filled above it. If you do that all you need is a dam to keep substrate from falling into the pond. So you can't have a pond any deeper then your false bottom but it keeps an excessive amount of water from wicking into the soil and you don't have to worry about a leak and your substrate getting flooded.

I do it this way because the substrate just above the false bottom is already pretty wet, and thats good thats how you keep humidity up, and it limits any wicking action from the pond. The area near the pond is just like the area above the false bottom so no more wicking occurs there then anywhere else and what does occur takes place very slowly.

If the pond is at substrate level the condensation at the sides of the pond interact with the drier substrate to produce a wicking action that basically sucks the water out of the pond and right into your drier levels of upper substrate. Basically the water crawls right up the side of the pond and into your soil, sounds weird but that's science :)
Science is science no doubt about that:)

I understand what you are saying and it makes perfect sense to me since you explained it.I have another question maybe you can help,If i seal the pond with foam then paint it , cant i poke holes through the pond area to let water fall througt? If you understand. and How are you able to keep the water in there?
Thankyou for taking your time to help
 

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Science is science no doubt about that:)

I understand what you are saying and it makes perfect sense to me since you explained it.I have another question maybe you can help,If i seal the pond with foam then paint it , cant i poke holes through the pond area to let water fall througt? If you understand. and How are you able to keep the water in there?
Thankyou for taking your time to help
Hope I can help. If you still have the same question above...I think I understand your question. If you have a false bottom and substrate above it and a pond dipping down, you need to understand that there is a "water table". Basically you need to visualize that the water level in the tank is at the same level throughout the tank, whether it is below the substrate that is above the false bottom, or whether your pond dips down below the water level so that you see the water inside that dip/pond. If you make the pond and then drill holes through it, the water level in the tank will be equalized, so the level of water under the false bottom, and in the pond, will be the same level. The pond that you plan to build out of foam is essentially just preventing the substrate from falling into the water area, but the water is still connected and flowing throughout everything. I hope that helps you understand and I hope that answers your question.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
That helped a lot and made perfect sense to me and what i am planning to do. thankyou for that.

In the mean time i had no time between school and everything eles to work on this thak. I havent updated due to no progress and you can see. I am planning on working on it this weekend starting to get the structure of the water fall in shape as well as working on a fake butress tree roots. Aslo i plan on using a clay backround because i hate the Gs foam. If there any tips anyone can give me please do.No complety sure on how the clay works. But i have alot of time :)
 
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