[Socratic Monologue]

Got it; I appreciate the honest response.

I'm not criticizing you at all, but I want to point this out for anyone who sees this thread and thinks they might want to keep imitators in groups: four frogs went in here four and a half years ago, and there are probably roughly four frogs in there now.

My imitator pairs each raise about four froglets a year, maybe five. I didn't see you mention the sex ratio, but even one pair should produce 15-20 froglets in that time frame.

Possibly yours don't follow through on tad care because of negative interactions (heck, imitator could possibly engage in brood parasitism as do amazonica); perhaps the water feature contributes to tadpole loss (I've had this experience with two tads in a viv I had a shallow water basin in, not unlike yours); perhaps there is actually death of frogs/froglets occurring because of the social situation. There are 15-40 froglets (depending on how many adults are in there) that are unaccounted for, at any rate, and I hope anyone who considers keeping imitators in groups thinks this through.

Again, I do appreciate you sharing your viv and experiences with us, sincerely.

No, I’ve never removed any froglets, it’s simply been survival of the fittest. That’s why I said it’s not ideal. They certainly breed on a regular basis though. Right now I see what looks like two or three adults, a large juvenile and I recently saw a tadpole being transported by one of the adults.

 

[ChrisAZ]

Got it; I appreciate the honest response.

I'm not criticizing you at all, but I want to point this out for anyone who sees this thread and thinks they might want to keep imitators in groups: four frogs went in here four and a half years ago, and there are probably roughly four frogs in there now.

My imitator pairs each raise about four froglets a year, maybe five. I didn't see you mention the sex ratio, but even one pair should produce 15-20 froglets in that time frame.

Possibly yours don't follow through on tad care because of negative interactions (heck, imitator could possibly engage in brood parasitism as do amazonica); perhaps the water feature contributes to tadpole loss (I've had this experience with two tads in a viv I had a shallow water basin in, not unlike yours); perhaps there is actually death of frogs/froglets occurring because of the social situation. There are 15-40 froglets (depending on how many adults are in there) that are unaccounted for, at any rate, and I hope anyone who considers keeping imitators in groups thinks this through.

Again, I do appreciate you sharing your viv and experiences with us, sincerely.

Happy to share the whole experience. I’ve been very torn about keeping exotics captive. I went into this hesitantly, not really wanting to get into breeding or contributing to the pet trade. I used to be very involved in the exotic pet trade when I was younger and have seen way to many animals end up in the hands of the inexperienced only to die a slow death. The member that gave me the original frogs explained that if I removed the eggs or froglets and raised them separately I could produce quite a few, however I made a decision not to go that route.



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[mikemakesapps]

Good points Socractic. After having done more reading, I'm leaning towards a more group-friendly frog like R. Variabilis so I don't have to worry about social interactions so much. As much as I like Imitators, I'd rather have peace of mind not worrying about fighting.

And I second that, thanks Chris for the stories and all the great photos of the evolution of your viv over the years!

 

[SkyShark]

Fantastic build. I know this is an old thread, but @ChrisAZ do you have any pictures of the initial setup and construction? It looks like the photos from post #3 don't show up anymore. I'm considering going with the tree fern panels and am curious to hear/see more about how you constructed it.
Thanks!

 

[ChrisAZ]

Fantastic build. I know this is an old thread, but @ChrisAZ do you have any pictures of the initial setup and construction? It looks like the photos from post #3 don't show up anymore. I'm considering going with the tree fern panels and am curious to hear/see more about how you constructed it.
Thanks!

Thank you, here’s what are probably the missing photos. Let me know if you have any questions.

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[SkyShark]

Thanks for adding the photos!

Then I used a combination of silicone, black expanding pond foam and custom mounting brackets I my with aluminum and stainless steel to mount everything in place.

Can you explain in a little more detail how you used the brackets to mount everything in place? Was just silicone not enough to hold the cork and tree fern panels to the glass?

 

[ChrisAZ]

Thanks for adding the photos!

Can you explain in a little more detail how you used the brackets to mount everything in place? Was just silicone not enough to hold the cork and tree fern panels to the glass?

Sure.
I cut some stainless sheet metal rectangles around 3” x 6” (give or take) and used 2” or so stainless steel wood screws to attach them to the back of driftwood then siliconed the back of the sheet metal (brackets) directly to the glass. This gave the driftwood a lot more mounting surface area and insured they would stay firmly in place long term. Afterwards I siliconed the edges of the cork bark pieces to the glass, taped off the areas I wanted protected and filled the gaps behind them in with black expanding pond foam. After that I carved away any excess foam and removed the painters tape. Then I just siliconed the tree fern panels in place. I had already put a layer of black silicone on the glass covering all they areas the background would cover and carefully cut and pieced together all the pieces like a puzzle for a test, dry fit, prior to this of course. The tree fern panels were mounted over lapping the stainless steel sheet metal brackets that held up the driftwood so they added even more support for the wood jutting out. All this support (possibly overkill) for the driftwood simply allowed for more arrangement options and piece of mind.
It’s still firmly in place to this day and I don’t see any signs of sagging or loosing grip. Let me know if that explains it, l had to right this in a hurry.


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[SkyShark]

Sure.
I cut some stainless sheet metal rectangles around 3” x 6” (give or take) and used 2” or so stainless steel wood screws to attach them to the back of driftwood then siliconed the back of the sheet metal (brackets) directly to the glass. This gave the driftwood a lot more mounting surface area and insured they would stay firmly in place long term. Afterwards I siliconed the edges of the cork bark pieces to the glass, taped off the areas I wanted protected and filled the gaps behind them in with black expanding pond foam. After that I carved away any excess foam and removed the painters tape. Then I just siliconed the tree fern panels in place. I had already put a layer of black silicone on the glass covering all they areas the background would cover and carefully cut and pieced together all the pieces like a puzzle for a test, dry fit, prior to this of course. The tree fern panels were mounted over lapping the stainless steel sheet metal brackets that held up the driftwood so they added even more support for the wood jutting out. All this support (possibly overkill) for the driftwood simply allowed for more arrangement options and piece of mind.
It’s still firmly in place to this day and I don’t see any signs of sagging or loosing grip. Let me know if that explains it, l had to right this in a hurry.


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Makes sense to me. Thanks!

 

[ChrisAZ]

No problem


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[LarryMac]

Thanks a bunch Chris, this was inspirational.

 

[ChrisAZ]

Thanks a bunch Chris, this was inspirational.

Glad you found it helpful. It’s been a learning process. I’m getting ready to build another soon, I’ve got pretty much everything I need except the time to build it.


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