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Hi guys,

Hoping for a bit of help/reassurance. So about 6 weeks ago I set up a 90x55x30 exo terra viv - drainage layer, membrane, substrate, sphagnum moss around the edges and then leaf litter on top.

About 2 weeks ago I added 4 Azureus to the vivarium. They've seemed to be doing fine, then the last few days one has been acting strangely and then today has collapsed (I presume dead, but I'm trying to encourage it back to life in a separate tub). Now comparing all 4, this one was really skinny so it may be due to starvation.

Now the other 3 seem to be doing OK, and strangely seem to be a lot more active today since I've removed the 4th one. Does this sound like bullying has caused this?

Tank is kept 80-90% humid, around 23c. They have a natural and uv light in the tank and I dust their fruit flies 2x per week.
 

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Pictures of the viv and frog(s) would help. Do you mean you feed and dust the flies 2 times a week or do you feed more than twice a week, but only dust them the 2 times per week? What supplements are you dusting with? How old are the frogs?

If only feeding twice a week, that's not very often. Especially if these are froglets.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Sorry for not being clear.

I add flies to the Viv 5x per week, dusting them 2x per week. There's also some springtails and pinhead crickets in there. I add RepPlus Bugrub in small amounts for the janitor insects (there's also isopods in there). I dust the flies with Exo Terra Multivitamin and Exo Terra Calcium + D3. Breeder said the frogs were adult.


This is 2 of the healthy frogs about 10 days ago - they've filled out even more since then, but they're hiding right now.
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This is the dead frog.
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Discussion Starter #5
All 4 have generally been eating well but then the last week or so I noticed that the flies I was putting near this frog didn't seem to be dwindling in number.
 

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"I add flies to the Viv 5x per week, dusting them 2x per week. "

They should be dusted every time you feed, and your supplement regimen should really have Repashy calcium + D3 as the foundation. Still, given that you've had these frogs such a short time, that's probably not long enough for your supplement habits to have led to this. If it were me, I would be looking into getting them tested for intestinal parasites.
 

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There is a lot wrong here at first look,

I sugguest you get rid of the UV lamp RIGHT NOW!!

You should dust your flies with Repashy CAL+ every feed and 1x a month VITA+. Lose the vitamines you are given now.

I don't like the exces moss aswell, humidity should be 65-85% instead of 80-90, I recommend also get rid of the waterfall.
Dartfrogs don't need a waterfeature, this could even be part of the problem.

The frogs look adult(ish), but they seem to be in horrible shape.

Please act as fast as possible, or you will lose the other frogs in no time.

Also DONT take them to a vet, this will simply cause more stress.
Your setup is just simply not suited for keeping dartfrogs. Look in to correct setups asap.

I wish you best of luck

.
 

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What exactly do you mean by UV lamp? What brand, index (2.O, 5.0, etc)
Curious. As I have not observed ill effects with set up strategies that included full spectrum lighting and deep cover. Both which are abundantly available in nature.
 

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Not "recommending it" just saying it has been done and the darts and mantellas were permanent displays, 6 to 8 years mid 2000 before placing them with a friend, frogger as we needed to space to expand a tetra retail area. As one example.
 

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If that pic is from 4 days after you got the frogs, you got them in very bad shape. I agree that a fecal test would be beneficial, though only if you have access to a qualified exotics vet (a dog and cat vet would, as has been noted, do more harm than good).

Since UVB is not at all necessary for adult frogs when supplementing D3, removing it isn't a bad idea. Supplying UVB can be beneficial, but misused/overused can be detrimental.

I also agree that Repashy Calcium Plus is a more reliable supplement.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank you for all your help. I've ordered the supplements and will remove the UVB and excess moisture.
 

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Talking about em spectrum as though the ultraviolet range is something separate is the thing I find unuseful.
Panic reactions without inquiry are not useful.
I read the studies and it was clear that the subjects had refined wavelength perception. They did not conclude that darts drop dead with daylight contact.

I do actually think that whole daylight wavelength lighting can be a stressor and promote hypervigilance.
 

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However -- I think the hyperbole is absolute sophistry. It makes sense that tads in small water feature and small diurnal bodies evolve acutely to solar effects of dessication and over exposure.

I have raised many froglets over decades with UVB as part of their lighting. And so did fellow herpetologists I have known., and one in particular who was by all standards, not only a professor of Biology but, a Rocket Scientist.

Photobiology is a fascinating science. Please research before appying ideological sunscreen in your eyes,
 

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However -- I think the hyperbole is absolute sophistry. It makes sense that tads in small water feature and small diurnal bodies evolve acutely to solar effects of dessication and over exposure.

I have raised many froglets over decades with UVB as part of their lighting. And so did fellow herpetologists I have known., and one in particular who was by all standards, not only a professor of Biology but, a Rocket Scientist.

Photobiology is a fascinating science. Please research before appying ideological sunscreen in your eyes,
Kmc, if you want people to take your assertion that UV is a good thing seriously, I think you need to provide some literature. Many of us have seen the paper that says that pumilio will abandon calling locations in the presence of UV (read the paper, folks - don't rely on my summation). If you and a few of your friends have had good success using UV, that's great, but there is what I perceive to be a much larger majority of us that have also had success without using UV. If you want to change that, I think you need to bring more to the table than "it has worked for me and some of my friends." Messing around with UV, I think, can fall into a category of potential harm to animals if it's done incorrectly, so I would not want to be experimenting with my own animals to figure out how to fine-tune amounts and durations. This is also not a realm where I would prefer to go with anecdotal evidence. That's where the literature might be helpful. Also, these are probably derails of a couple of different threads. I suggest you make a thread to discuss this. I have not done much research at all on this topic, but I know some others have. Let's get the papers out there and let people judge for themselves. I would love to have a discussion on this subject and am willing to be swayed, but let's get it out in the open and do it right. This topic deserves it's day in the sun (see what I did there?). That's just my $0.02, anyway.

Mark
 

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I replied. But it seems to have disappeared.
 

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"If you want people to take that: UVB is a "good thing" I think you should provide some li

There are No Grants - no "HerpetoculturStudies" on record .
 

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"If you want people to take that: UVB is a "good thing" I think you should provide some li

There are No Grants - no "HerpetoculturStudies" on record .
All right, Kmc, we get your point. This thread isn't about UVB, it is about answering the OP's question, so let's keep it on track.
 

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Yes, and lets not create a Skinny Frog Mythology of Burned Skin and Ultraviolet Radiation where it doesnt exist.
 
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