Theloderma bicolor - new baby - Dendroboard
Dendroboard

Go Back   Dendroboard > Miscellaneous > Other Amphibians > Tree frogs
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Advertise

Support Our Sponsors
No Threads to Display.

facebook

Like Tree9Likes
  • 9 Post By spawn

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2013, 10:47 PM
spawn's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 354
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Theloderma bicolor - new baby

The adults are about half the size of Theloderma corticale. They seem to have a less voracious appetite too, being a little leaner. I had some corticale back in the day that would attempt to eat roaches the same size as them! I'm feeding these guys B. lateralis adults, with Nauphoeta cinerea as a staple:









Those were the parents. And now the newly morphed froglet (day old, completely absorbed tail) that I just let grow in the adult tank:






Care is the same as T. corticale. Temps should never exceed 80 Fahrenheit during the summer, and there needs to be 2-3" of water present to fully submerge. I diapause my T. corticale for a few weeks in 40 degree weather during the winter. The sweet spot is right around 68-72F.
__________________
Seeking: Pedostibes hoseii (climbing toads)
Theloderma (mossy frogs)

Last edited by spawn; 05-09-2013 at 10:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:07 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gloucester Twp, New Jersey
Posts: 2,367
Thanks: 4
Thanked 51 Times in 39 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

How are the sex ratios of these guys?

I haven't seen any for sale.....any thoughts on where to get them?

Theloderma are an awesome genus
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2013, 11:14 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,347
Thanks: 44
Thanked 72 Times in 63 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

I've gotten these in from Vietnam before and wished I kept some, very cool species!
Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2013, 02:07 AM
spawn's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 354
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

Quote:
Originally Posted by mydumname View Post
How are the sex ratios of these guys?

I haven't seen any for sale.....any thoughts on where to get them?

Theloderma are an awesome genus
Wild-caught are male prone. I have 3.1.

As far as where to get them...I don't think they're available regularly. Once I get them producing regularly I'll put some up for sale.
__________________
Seeking: Pedostibes hoseii (climbing toads)
Theloderma (mossy frogs)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2013, 07:48 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Europe, Germany
Posts: 97
Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

Quote:
Originally Posted by spawn View Post
Wild-caught are male prone. I have 3.1.
lucky you, that you got one female!
In 2011 I had the chance to acquire 11 captive bred froglets, one died and I ended up with 10 males - resp. for me they look like males and no tadpoles so far! *sigh*
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2013, 10:18 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,684
Thanks: 1
Thanked 104 Times in 69 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

Is there still that issue with T. corticale coming out mostly male when CB? Did that every get figured out? I suspect the same would be true for T. bicolor, and I've had people mention the same issue with Nyctixalus pictus.

Back in the day I had two T. bicolor that came in with T. corticale - both male. Such a bummer as they were great frogs! Happy to see they are actually being bred now, we just need more ladies!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2013, 12:34 PM
Halter's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Friendswood, Texas
Posts: 481
Thanks: 21
Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

Theloderma is one of my favorite genus of frogs. Did you raise the tads together or separate? For a breeding group do you need to have a larger m/f ratio? Very cool frogs...rarely do I see CB specimens for sale. When you have some for sale let us know!
__________________
"There he goes, one of gods own prototypes, too weird to live, and too rare to die."
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2013, 01:05 PM
spawn's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 354
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

I lied...I have 2.2. The lone female I THOUGHT I had just died one day for no apparent reason. Still left a female that's taking over the laying responsibilities. I only fed her 3-4 times (put food in more but they weren't interested) between layings, and the layings were only 2 weeks apart. 12-20 eggs for each laying. They are not voracious eaters like the T. corticale. But their behaviour is most suited for 72 degrees and no warmer. 68-72 is the right spot.

I raise the tadpoles in the tank with the adults. The water isn't filtered and is spot-cleaned, but it has plenty of oak leaves in it for tannins. Like roaches, the tadpoles feed on the droppings of the adults.

When I get more tads and have less room, I will raise them in individual cups, similar to how I did with dart frog tads.


I don't think there needs to be a male/female heavy group to mate. Just a male and a female. The males croak like crazy. I'm afraid they're overworking the female. One will amplex her for a couple days straight and the other one will be calling for hours when I'm trying to fall asleep. Unlike the corticale, the female does NOT call back. But this could just be circumstantial. I believe female corticale croak to give their position away to a calling male. This tank is more rudimentary - albeit the same size - as my old T. corticale tank. The males find her quite easy.

Again, I think it's important to point out this along with T. corticale thrive at temps below 75 degrees. The setup is 2-3" AT LEAST of water. I'm lazy so I've been letting the water evaporate over the weeks but it started out with 4.5" of water. There are two plastic tree trunks for them to climb out on should they choose, but I've only seen them do that maybe once a week when the lights go out. Like mudskippers they sit at the surface of the water with their eyes out. I'm hoping the one baby I pictured above I can raise to adult to replace the breeder I lost. The rest will probably be up for sale in the coming months.
__________________
Seeking: Pedostibes hoseii (climbing toads)
Theloderma (mossy frogs)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2013, 04:14 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gloucester Twp, New Jersey
Posts: 2,367
Thanks: 4
Thanked 51 Times in 39 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

Nice write up. Can you elaborate more on the female Corticale calling back? Is it a different sound?

I have a group of 10 and I hear the normal calling but have also heard some other noises. They are still in a temp set up and I have not really begun trying to sex them. Fingers crossed for a female. Hopefully those random noises is from a female.

Now I do notice my asperum have some different noises and behaviors when breeding vs when just calling at night.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2013, 11:31 PM
spawn's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NY, USA
Posts: 354
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

Yes, it's a different sound. The male croak is unmistakeable if you have multiple calling. You'll hear the full breadth of the croak, whereas the females' croaks are more succinct, soft. It's more of a peep for lack of a better descriptor. The males' croak is designed to travel longer distances, and display the available information to the female (health, size, fertility, etc.).

I haven't had corticale in 5 or so years, so I can't describe it beyond that of my poor, poor memory. I DO however have subadults I'm raising to adulthood that I will have firsthand experience with once more. But the focus right now is on the bicolor obviously since they're new and different for me (relatively).
__________________
Seeking: Pedostibes hoseii (climbing toads)
Theloderma (mossy frogs)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2013, 10:15 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,684
Thanks: 1
Thanked 104 Times in 69 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

I've always raised the Theloderma tadpoles in groups, and only in a few cases did I actually start pulling some tadpoles because there were so many in the parent's tanks (near the end of the season when the first tadpoles start getting large). That ended up being just another large sweaterbox of water set up basically the same way with leaf litter pulled from the parent's tank. I don't think they'd do well in tiny bodies of water with as much fluctuation in conditions like you get with PDF tadpole set ups, and they aren't aggressive like PDFs so there really isn't a reason. Need to pack more tadpoles in? Add more leaf litter and just make sure your water quality is good. To be honest... PDFs are the only amphibian I raise individually in cups and the only ones bred on a regular basis I'd recommend it for, and trying to raise other tadpoles like that can be detrimental.

I hand feed mine so I can make sure everyone is eating and it's funny to watch them to twitchy toes like PDFs do.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 02:18 AM
Halter's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Friendswood, Texas
Posts: 481
Thanks: 21
Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKero View Post
I've always raised the Theloderma tadpoles in groups, and only in a few cases did I actually start pulling some tadpoles because there were so many in the parent's tanks (near the end of the season when the first tadpoles start getting large). That ended up being just another large sweaterbox of water set up basically the same way with leaf litter pulled from the parent's tank. I don't think they'd do well in tiny bodies of water with as much fluctuation in conditions like you get with PDF tadpole set ups, and they aren't aggressive like PDFs so there really isn't a reason. Need to pack more tadpoles in? Add more leaf litter and just make sure your water quality is good. To be honest... PDFs are the only amphibian I raise individually in cups and the only ones bred on a regular basis I'd recommend it for, and trying to raise other tadpoles like that can be detrimental.

I hand feed mine so I can make sure everyone is eating and it's funny to watch them to twitchy toes like PDFs do.
Do you think they would work in a ten gallon setup w/ a heater and a small filter?
__________________
"There he goes, one of gods own prototypes, too weird to live, and too rare to die."
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 02:52 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,684
Thanks: 1
Thanked 104 Times in 69 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

I would never use a heater with any of the Theloderma, and don't use a filter most of the time either (sponge filter would be the only type I'd use). Occasional water changes and floating plants keep the water quality high. I don't mean duckweed (next to useless) but fertilizer loving plants like water lettuce, red root floaters, and frogbit. Size of the container depends on how many tadpoles you have but bigger is always better for water quality, and a 10g would be on the small side BUT that is also because I would only have it max 2/3 full and these tadpoles get so big.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 02:54 AM
Halter's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Friendswood, Texas
Posts: 481
Thanks: 21
Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKero View Post
I would never use a heater with any of the Theloderma, and don't use a filter most of the time either (sponge filter would be the only type I'd use). Occasional water changes and floating plants keep the water quality high. I don't mean duckweed (next to useless) but fertilizer loving plants like water lettuce, red root floaters, and frogbit. Size of the container depends on how many tadpoles you have but bigger is always better for water quality, and a 10g would be on the small side BUT that is also because I would only have it max 2/3 full and these tadpoles get so big.
Thank you, I am looking to get into Theloderma soon. They are one of my favorite tree frogs. So what temperature should the water be optimally?
__________________
"There he goes, one of gods own prototypes, too weird to live, and too rare to die."
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 03:12 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,684
Thanks: 1
Thanked 104 Times in 69 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

The larger green species like corticale and bicolor the cooler the better. My corticale have gotten down in the upper 50s no problem, and theories about the heavy male sex ratio are often based around needing 65F or lower for tadpoles (being raised at around 70 being mostly male). Bicolor and corticale are not true tropical species and are also from mountains so they like it colder than room temps, and don't like it in the 80s. Smaller brown species coming from S E Asia (like asperum) are tropical and are fine at room temps, no heater needed still, but don't need it cool either and aren't as heat sensitive. A cooler running basement is great for these guys.

Tadpoles are great clean up crews for their parents which are seasonal breeders for me since I replicate seasons. I love their calls... Soft sounding hoots and chirps. Treat them like semi-aqutic frogs with no heaters or water movement and they are easy. These guys are nothing like PDFs and a great change of pace
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 03:22 AM
Halter's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Friendswood, Texas
Posts: 481
Thanks: 21
Thanked 33 Times in 30 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKero View Post
The larger green species like corticale and bicolor the cooler the better. My corticale have gotten down in the upper 50s no problem, and theories about the heavy male sex ratio are often based around needing 65F or lower for tadpoles (being raised at around 70 being mostly male). Bicolor and corticale are not true tropical species and are also from mountains so they like it colder than room temps, and don't like it in the 80s. Smaller brown species coming from S E Asia (like asperum) are tropical and are fine at room temps, no heater needed still, but don't need it cool either and aren't as heat sensitive. A cooler running basement is great for these guys.

Tadpoles are great clean up crews for their parents which are seasonal breeders for me since I replicate seasons. I love their calls... Soft sounding hoots and chirps. Treat them like semi-aqutic frogs with no heaters or water movement and they are easy. These guys are nothing like PDFs and a great change of pace
Thank you very much for the useful information. If one would not have access to a basement, what methods would you recommend to keep the water cool?
I was looking into finding Corticale.
__________________
"There he goes, one of gods own prototypes, too weird to live, and too rare to die."
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 01:35 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,684
Thanks: 1
Thanked 104 Times in 69 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

If just looking to keep as a pet corticale is fine in room temperatures in the low 70s. I keep mine in a tank away from my other tanks (which are kept warmer due to lights and the species kept in them). They have a large tank closer to the floor, and nothing that gives off heat below them. They at great fun and have enjoyed this set up.

Now this doesn't address the issue of breeding - both cycling and raising tadpoles with a more even sex ratio may be tied to significantly cooler temps. I now live in an apartment so no more basement for me to use, and is the winter temperature drop going to be enough? Probably not. Alternatives are pricey - aquarium chillers that have a limited capacity to chill (and depending on set up and ambient temp may or may not be able to drop the temp enough) or investing in a wine fridge. If you are savvy enough you can make a wine fridge terrarium for them (although having it hold 6+ inches of water at the bottom may be tricky) or just accept that to breed these guys at least the tadpoles might be banished to the wine fridge, but I would also put the adults in there too for part of the year.

Or just get their tiny tropical cousins, T. asperum. You can breed them in 10g but a group in a larger tank is very fun! Being tropical an unheated tropical paludarium would work great and no need for chilling tadpoles either. Similar cute little hoot and they will also eat off tongs (bowl train first but they catch on - this is the only species other than corticale that I got to eat off tongs), all in a frog that is the bark- looking juvie sized version of a corticale. CB are available of this species as well, and push comes to shove I would probably recommend these guys more than corticale, especially if you don't have an easy way to chill your animals.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-23-2013, 02:07 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Europe, Germany
Posts: 97
Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeroKero View Post
I've always raised the Theloderma tadpoles in groups,
I am curious, how large they are after metamorphoses.

Are the ones raised fast at higher temperature smaller than the ones raised slowly at cool temperatures?

kind regards,
Martin
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2013, 09:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,684
Thanks: 1
Thanked 104 Times in 69 Posts
Default Re: Theloderma bicolor - new baby

To be honest I never kept track of how long they were in the water and never raised them at different temperatures to keep track of the influences. They were literally just the clean up crew in the pond of the tank and until they all came out at night and I could sneak peeks I rarely knew how much where in there because of all the leaf litter they hid in. It was AMAZING how many large tadpoles could hide in there! I'll probably consider raising them in different temperatures now to see if I can get some female offspring but even then I don't expect a bit size difference, just a huge time in the water difference. A lot more breeders need to work on keeping cool tadpoles or we'll end up losing a lot of valuable genes in the population due to a bottleneck caused by the male heavy population... the only reason they are still around as much as they are is likely due to regular influx of wild caughts. There has been one frog already lost in the hobby once due to temperature dependent tadpoles that caused the population to skew totally male, and the only reason we have any azureventris today is because of new blood brought in. But... are enough people breeding them and keeping the tadpoles cool, or will it be under threat to be lost again? Will the cooler Theloderma go that route?

As long as you aren't pushing them heat wise you shouldn't have a massive difference in size between the ones grown warmer or cooler... the cooler animals eat less over the course of a day and grow more slowly (which also means it is MUCH easier to over feed these guys and destroy water quality when kept cool). I've only seen massive differences in sizes when tadpoles are pushed way too hard heat wise and they are morphing at smaller size because the heat may signal to them that their water source is drying up (happens a lot in E. anthonyi - you can get them out of the water at a month but at a very, very significant cost on size they may pay for all their lives, if they live) or in cases where the food fed to them was much less than ideal (and the other version allowed for another food source even if the keeper didn't realize it - like how some people swear they only get larger tinc metamorphs when raised in larger group containers vs cups and the group animals just have more surface to forage for biofilm). These guys morph out big enough to take small crickets from the pet store, and are pretty hefty little babies... but then again a frog the size of your palm but only lays around 30 eggs at a time means a hefty sized baby.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Theloderma bicolor earthtiger Tree frogs 1 10-16-2011 07:12 PM
When do you start feeding baby food to your baby? murphyward The Lounge 30 04-27-2011 02:50 AM
theloderma Ryan The Lounge 15 09-23-2006 04:12 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.