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Old 11-17-2019, 08:47 AM
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Default MBD in Green Tree Frogs

Hi everyone, I'm a new member and a carer for 4 rescue GTFs with Metabolic Bone Disease. Vet recommended 15 mins of sunbathing each day which they are tolerating quite well, 10 hours of artificial UVB (Exo Terra UVB 2.0 in a tank 30cm high) and dusting with calcium at every nightly feed. I currently use Pisces Calcium to dust crickets along with Pisces Superfood vitamin powder which I also dust on the crickets (although I'm not sure how much actually sticks). The vet also recommended adding broken up sea shell to the frogs' water or Plaster of Paris. Does anyone know how to do this, and how did it go? Also how do you rate the Pisces supplements? I'm really keen for these gorgeous little frogs to make a full recovery and want to know how to give them the best chance.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:57 AM
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I've also been gut loading with Pisces Gutload for the past week.
I should say I have been treating them for about 3 weeks now. Two of the GTFs who were only moderately affected by MBD have improved a great deal. A third frog was slightly more affected and although he's improved in condition he still doesn't use his front right leg properly. The fourth frog was severely affected and although she has improved, she still cannot hop. She tries hard but her back legs have no power. They are all eating one to two large crickets each night. The two weaker frogs need to be tweezer fed, but are keen eaters.
 
Old 11-18-2019, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: MBD in Green Tree Frogs

Welcome!

I'm glad your frogs are improving! It sounds as if you are on the right track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelB View Post
The vet also recommended adding broken up sea shell to the frogs' water or Plaster of Paris. Does anyone know how to do this, and how did it go? Also how do you rate the Pisces supplements?
I'd recommend asking the vet for clarification. Sounds like really poor advice to me. Plaster (calcium sulfate) isn't particularly soluble in water, and is not at all palatable; sea shells are not soluble in tap water at all, and so can't help at all (and if not properly cleaned could be a disease vector).

Calcium gluconate would be a far more suitable soluble calcium source. Herp vets here tend to give a dose of D3 (usually injectable, but likely oral in frogs) for treatment of advanced MBD, but please don't try this yourself.

I searched for info on the Pisces supplements (I'm in the US, and we don't have them here; you're in Australia, I'm guessing? It would be helpful to know your location...), and I didn't find a guaranteed analysis. Hard to judge them without real information.

Most of us here use Repashy or Dendrocare supplements.

Hope this helps, and I hope your frogs keep improving.
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Old 11-18-2019, 03:15 AM
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Default Re: MBD in Green Tree Frogs

Socrates Monologues information and diplomacy is stellar here.

In other disease situations an enforced soak or bath in the appropriate drug solution for significant duration has its place, but potentially interfering with a frog's hydration habits by altering a voluntarily sourced water feature seems heavy-handidly ad-hock to me.

The Shells will leach a negligible amount of calcium carbonate in the water, it rubs me slightly less the wrong way then the plaster of paris, which could be aversive. I believe their volitional water should be kept clear.

Your frogs are showing improvement. Be careful.
 
Old 11-18-2019, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: MBD in Green Tree Frogs

Quote:
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diplomacy
Yeah, I'm working on that. Don't expect any miracles, though.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: MBD in Green Tree Frogs

O.P,

Did the Vet that suggested putting Plaster of Paris in the water also suggest the Exo Terra light you are using?

I ask because I have interest and successful resolve experience in the topic.

Also, you describe mobility problems in some of the 'weaker' individuals.

Spontaneous Fracture is a frequent and unfortunate reality with 'mbd' .

Reptiles and Amphibians dont protectively "favor" injured limbs like birds and mammals do. This may, and i speculate, have a tie-in to the fact they are 'non-developmental' in mobility stages, unlike birds and mammals.

The result is they mechanically 'use' injured limbs - causing more self injury. Even though they can and do percieve Pain.

However I have observed that given an astute and simplistically secure opportunity, sick and injured "lower chordates" will tuck themselves in quiet station to self preserve.

Try to be as unobtrusive as possible - and it is a given, I hope, that no "encouragement" to "move" should be attemped. It is extremely fortunate they are willing and able to feed.

I will also say that I have used Zoo med tubes, in stronger indexes than what you describe, with no harm and only good results.

Last edited by Kmc; 11-18-2019 at 08:27 PM. Reason: bad typing
 
Old 11-22-2019, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: MBD in Green Tree Frogs

How big are the frogs, and how big are the crickets? I would suggest with such an aggressive feeding regimen you use only pre-wing crickets. The chitin load of winged adults may become a secondary issue with such a feeding schedule. Frogs don't digest chitin very well and constipation can occur.
Other than that, and the previous suggestions it sounds like you're doing well. They won't bounce back from MBD quickly, but it sounds like you're a real blessing for those poor frogs.
If you're really worried, find an exotic pet vet for a second opinion.
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Old 11-24-2019, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: MBD in Green Tree Frogs

Hello, I have seen many hyla frogs recover from this with UVB lighting like the vet said but that's about it for the vets recommendation. The best supplement that actually has helped toads and eastern tree frogs is I believe Zoo Med Reptivite with D3. It isn't a stand alone job though but you can dust the crickets with this and I would encourage maybe Repti Worms as a feeder which is softer and can be a good feeder in addition to the crickets.

For feeding the crickets I use Mazuri Better Bug Gutload which was proven with eastern toads to give them a more nutritious meal and the feeder insect contains a lot more to benefit the frog or toad consuming it. This gutload works well with feeding it to crickets for a day or two before feeding it to the frogs. I have seen people use Reptocal by Tetrafauna and Repashy products. I believe these are all the best products on the market with some additional products but that's not important at the moment.

I would also use a water dish the frog can soak in but wouldn't use a sea shell that's just odd. You can add a large rock or something if the frog needs a platform to come out of the water with.

Please keep us updated I'm sorry to hear about your frogs.

Also I haven't seen if you have Hyla Green tree frogs or Litoria Green tree frogs. I may add to my comment after I figure out which one you have. Regardless of the species I use the same supplements with my White's that I use with my Grays so it's not really changing anything.

Sent from my BKL-L04 using Tapatalk

Last edited by AAronCap; 11-24-2019 at 06:03 AM.
 
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