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Old 04-14-2014, 11:24 PM
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Default Red eyed tree frog just died..?

Hey everyone..seriously need some help. I just got 2 retfs about 2 weeks ago. Everything seemed fine until, suddenly, the female just collapsed in the water moments ago. I'll give a run down of the enclosure as well as pics of the enclosure and the frogs.
The cage:
Size: 18x18x24
Substrate: abg w/ leaf litter
Furniture: grape wood branches, two other branches, and a philodendron plant
Water: a waterfall on the right side
Temp/humidity: humidity is around 60-70%, daytime temps (it's been unusually hot lately) 78-85, nighttime is around 70-75.
Lighting: two low wattage reptiglo cfls for viewing
False bottom: egg crate
The frogs:
Seemed to be acting ok, up until now!
Feeding: fed like 15-20 crickets every 3-4 days. They seemed to be disappearing, so I assumed they've been eating.
Water: they both regularly soaked in the water area
Activity: they were both very active during the night, until today.
The male still seems ok, but now I don't really know. Here are some pics:
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

The one above was the female a few days ago. Sorry it wouldn't let me edit for some reason. Here is the female just before her death:
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

When I rescued her from the water:
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

The male just last night:
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

And here's the cage. Sorry, it only let me post one pic per post..? But anyway, I'm really disappointed by this. Hopefully u guys can help me out so that I can save this male and prevent this from happening again.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

Wc or Cb. All frogs need quarintine. Wc tree frogs need a month to 3 to monitor for bad signs. Baytril works wonders on wc frogs to fight harmful bacteria. Sending a swab to check for rana or chytrid are good to do. While in quarintine it is important to keep hydrated.
When I have seen tree frogs act like yours it usually mean certain death. I would suggest checking your other frog into a quarintine setup and swab the sick frog and send it to a lab.
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Last edited by punctata; 04-14-2014 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

Did you clean your plants properly? Bacteria that can be harmful can be present.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

Thanks for the quick replies! They were captive bred, picked them up at a show. As soon as I saw the dead female I immediately began setting up a quarantine tank. And yes, we did clean the philodendron properly.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

We also had glass covering half of the top btw
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

I'm so sorry.

Have you contacted the breeder? They may have some insight. Is it someone you trust to have healthy frogs?
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

You have a nice tank and plenty of ventilation. These guys get infections easily. Some UVB over the screen does help with bacteria if you already do not have that. I recommend taking her to a vet if possible. If it is an infection of some sort they should be able to give you a soak to put her in once a day. Like others said contact the breeder as well.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:30 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

Yeah, we had UVB, and we will contact the breeder. So I set up a quarantine tank, and put the male in there:
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

And I think I'm going to break down the entire cage and clean it. Hopefully that will get rid of anything that was potentially harmful.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frogface View Post
I'm so sorry.

Have you contacted the breeder? They may have some insight. Is it someone you trust to have healthy frogs?
Yeah, he seemed pretty knowledgeable on them. They looked nice and healthy. He had like multiple males and one female, and we took a pair home. Now two weeks later, I swear it was just so sudden, the female just collapsed into the water. I've had my frogs and reptiles die before, but never this quickly.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

Are you sure they were cb? Was this from the breeder?
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

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Originally Posted by Amphinityfrogs View Post
You have a nice tank and plenty of ventilation. These guys get infections easily. Some UVB over the screen does help with bacteria if you already do not have that. I recommend taking her to a vet if possible. If it is an infection of some sort they should be able to give you a soak to put her in once a day. Like others said contact the breeder as well.
If the UVB is at a level that it impacts bacteria then it is going to be a problem for the tissues of any animal that are close to it.....

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Old 04-15-2014, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

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If the UVB is at a level that it impacts bacteria then it is going to be a problem for the tissues of any animal that are close to it.....

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Interesting. You learn something new everyday. Well then I'll just tell myself UVB is still a good thing for something anyways.
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Old 04-15-2014, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

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Are you sure they were cb? Was this from the breeder?
Yup. They were cb. About a year old each. This is why im totally confused. I have absolutely no clue what happened.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

Even if they were CB, they still could have come in contact with infected frogs, either at the breeder's or even at the show as people handle animals and items and move from table to table.

We had a situation here, last year, where a guy's CB tree frogs picked up chytrid from a WC group he got. Boy what a mess that was.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:15 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

so what would be my next course of action for the male? I currently have him in a 20 gal quarantine tank
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

I'd swab him and send samples to a lab to have them check for chytrid and ranavirus. One sec and I'll be back with a link.

Ok, here is one of the labs. This one is the least expensive. I think it was 36 bucks for them to test for both chytrid and ranavirus. http://www.vetdna.com/
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

I'd try to watch and make sure he is eating. They looked to me very skinny. I know they normally aren't a thick frog but those were skinnier then usual.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:40 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

ok, thank you for the help everyone. Im going to try to see if i can save this male. Ill keep you guys posted. Thanks!
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

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Originally Posted by Amphinityfrogs View Post
Interesting. You learn something new everyday. Well then I'll just tell myself UVB is still a good thing for something anyways.
It is good for things like the photoconversion of provitamin D to D3. It's just at the intensity required to damage bacteria, the intensity is sufficient to damage other tissues as well. There are even documented cases of blindness in some reptiles due to being able to closely access high intensity UVB light.

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Old 04-15-2014, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

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I'd swab him and send samples to a lab to have them check for chytrid and ranavirus. One sec and I'll be back with a link.

Ok, here is one of the labs. This one is the least expensive. I think it was 36 bucks for them to test for both chytrid and ranavirus. Research Associates Laboratory
Kris,

Is that the lab that had some of the false positive results?

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Old 04-15-2014, 11:29 AM
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Kris,

Is that the lab that had some of the false positive results?

Ed
Yes.

Another lab to try is Amphibian screening PCR panel . They have an amphibian panel that is cheaper than testing the chytrid and ranavirus separately. I think it was around 130 bucks.
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Old 04-15-2014, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

Ok, I'll check that out. Also, could it have been lack of supplementation? I was gut loading the crickets, but after dusting for a couple feedings, I haven't for the last few. Could that have killed them so quickly though?
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

I have gone through alot of red eyes over the years. Sometimes these things happen. They stress very easily and that can kill them. It does not look like a female to me, but could be because it's very slim. It's hard to tell for sure until you can see it fat full of eyes and it has never made any noise. I had 3 die on me until I got it right (or got lucky lol) sometimes they just never settle in and won't eat. I always put new red eyes in quarantine type set ups as soon as I get them so I can monitor them more easily and see if they are eating and then once they are settled and calmed down and eating regularly and don't have any other issues such as wounds, spots or runny stool I move them to their main tank. I always tong feed mine (don't attempt until they are out of quarantine) so I know exactly how much they have eaten. It can take a while to 'train' them to do this, some do it right away some take weeks, months even. This does make them more aggressive towards each other though as they start to associate any kind of larger movement with food (my hand with a pair of tongs lol) instead of a small cricket moving by. They give each other stare downs and sometimes lunge at each other because they think the frog moving is food. They also get excited at turn to look at me when I come near the tank as they think it's feeding time. Sometimes covering the back, sides and front of the tank with something so they can't see out and you can't see in helps them calm down alot and be more active. Also any lights on in the room with disturb them too, once they are settled though not so much.

About the WC or CB thing, they are on the CITES appendix 2 list which means for them to be exported/imported needs a permit to be granted and WC shipments I would think are very likely to be declined.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

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I have gone through alot of red eyes over the years. Sometimes these things happen. They stress very easily and that can kill them.
This is often thrown around as a reason for death of a red eye treefrog on the internet but there is little definitive proof that this is actually a common cause. The reason for this is that unless something stresses the animal so bad that it goes into immediate shock, the stress will not be the direct cause of death. Instead what happens is that the stress causes a reduction in the immune response of the frog for a brief period of time.


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About the WC or CB thing, they are on the CITES appendix 2 list which means for them to be exported/imported needs a permit to be granted and WC shipments I would think are very likely to be declined.
This is not correct. Permits are routinely granted as CITES II only requires that they set a quota. One of the reasons they put a quota in was because they were getting laundering of animals out of Costa Rica.

One of the clues that can indicate that these are captive bred is because they don't show the intense color of wild caught animals. This happens when the breeders don't provide high carotenoid diets to the tadpoles and the froglets.

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Old 04-15-2014, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Red eyed tree frog just died..?

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This is often thrown around as a reason for death of a red eye treefrog on the internet but there is little definitive proof that this is actually a common cause. The reason for this is that unless something stresses the animal so bad that it goes into immediate shock, the stress will not be the direct cause of death. Instead what happens is that the stress causes a reduction in the immune response of the frog for a brief period of time.




This is not correct. Permits are routinely granted as CITES II only requires that they set a quota. One of the reasons they put a quota in was because they were getting laundering of animals out of Costa Rica.

One of the clues that can indicate that these are captive bred is because they don't show the intense color of wild caught animals. This happens when the breeders don't provide high carotenoid diets to the tadpoles and the froglets.

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Ed
your the best! I am learning a lot from you

I didn't really mean it in a way that you described they would be so stressed that they would drop dead.. More that it leads to other issues such as them not eating which leads to starvation and also it lowers their immunity which makes them more susceptible to be over taken by infections and parasites. Right?
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