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Old 12-15-2013, 08:24 AM
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Smile Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

Hi! I've seen there's a few people that had gravid L. uluguruensis females, but there's rarely a follow up on what happens.
Right now I have a female with eggs that are clearly visible on the sides of her belly, so I would really appreciate any tips or advice for how to set up the cage etc. so that she will lay them safely. Right now they have a thick layer of moist soil on the ground and a big/medium sized water dish.

You who've had gravid females before, please tell me how it went!
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Old 12-15-2013, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

am curious how long you have had her...and did you get her from an importer here in the US?? They have never, to my understanding, been successfully bred here...I have two females and four males...and from the little I've learned, they amplex in mud during the monsoon season in Tanzania..the tadpoles must develop quickly and work their way from mud holes to water. The males call from edges of streams...up in the nearby trees... A question to me is...do they go by their native clockworks--Southern hemisphere time--? The long wet season in Tanzania starts around March to middle May... It isn't unusual to receive a gravid female...but getting them to actually produce the eggs for fertilization...what that stimulus is is not just a rain chamber running frequently...must also be critical to have a "stream", running water, lightweight porous sandy/loam type soil for burying into..perhaps with "cave like" burrows along the edges to "catch"the eggs and tads...so you can just imagine how intricate the setup must be... And I had been told, and it was too true, that Cytrid is endemic in Tanzania...and when I got the new group...they were positive to db, so they had to be carefully quarantined and treated, and retested...I've had the "group" for quite a while now, and have never noticed the males doing anything BUT call.. I really love the frogs, but wish I knew more.... Good luck...please get back to me about your thoughts...
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

I wish you the very best luck breeding these guys! Please keep us posted on how it goes.
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Old 12-15-2013, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

how dumb of me....you also have to have a male!!
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

Frogface - Thanks for your encouragement!
Judy - a male? even better, three males!!


I got my female and two males just yesterday. They came from a person that had kept them for about one and a half year. The female was in amplexus with one of the males in the transporting box when I got them and had been so for a long time, so they do seem willing to breed.

They will be in a quarantine enclosure for some time before I put them into the main vivarium with the male I had since before. I'm aware of the risk of chytrid so I'm very cautious.

Judy, your thoughts about the breeding environment is very valuable.
I have already thought about the running stream issue. There must be some way of simulating it in captivity. I'm going to discuss it with my dad who is an zoologist, because they have all sorts of equipment for these kind of things and has been breeding animal species that should be almost impossible to even keep alive in captivity, so he might have some ideas on how to do it.

About the soil I'm not sure if I imagine it right. I'm going to go with the normal plantation soil that I have currently, but at my summer house there is a steam, and along side of it there is soil that I think would be similar to what you're describing. I'll try to get some next time we're there.

Do you know what happens if the female doesn't lay the eggs? Does it has to have a fatal consequence or can they, as some other species, absorb the eggs again? I would hate to lose my pretty girl if things doesn't work out

Honestly I would love to take a trip to Tanzania and try to study the frogs in their natural habitat. Maybe some years in the future...
Right now I'm just trying to just gather as much information as possible. I've read all english, german and french sites and I'm currently in the process of translating japanese sites since these frogs are very popular there. Very time consuming but it'll be worth it if I find something good
Judy S and epiphytes etc. like this.

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Old 12-15-2013, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

Good luck to you!!! This is a species not easily bred in captivity. In fact I've not heard of ANYONE pulling it off. They are a great frog!!!! I hope you have luck!



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Old 12-15-2013, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

grodmys--I hope you can succeed!!!!One of the females I have just absorbed...but I do not know what the trigger is for her to develop more...has to be related to where she came from, in my mind....they are all wild, so at what point if ever do they change their biological clocks and orientations...My thoughts of products would use a material that Frograck(DB screen name) sells which is called Matala. It allows thorough penetration of water without channeling, and does not let any substrate through--it also comes as a very thin sheet for heat/AC filter material under the "Duck" brand. It is very easy to cut, can be urged into curves (the thin stuff..)...so I thought it could be formed into a "stream bank" with little inlets like caves so that the water could freely flow through, but the tads would not be caught up in any pump/return system with a suction movement toward a pump. When you look at streams in Mother Nature, they have somewhat straight up banks with overhanging branches, little culverts, etc.--so simulating that would be an approach to containing tads... The other material which I thought would be useful is the Hygrolon which is a manmade product on which moss will grow...I'm using it now in a tank with terriblis sloping down to the "pond" area... In the thinking about a Ulu setup, it could be something to stabilize any plant growth in a sloping, or vertical orientation.. Water also passes freely through it. I've looked at a lot of sites about Tanzania...and there has to be some connection between temps, Ph of the water, torrential periodic rain and the consistency of the flooded soil... So--having tallish plants like Dracena-type "bamboo"...Pothos, etc. could remain IN their pots in corners...water won't kill them...and have the rest of the tank as a waterfall, into a stream, into a mucky, pondlike thing--and have the ability to return the water to a pump--using more Matala that would prevent the substrate material to foul the pump area....A rain chamber setup would allow for more frequent, and perhaps heavier "rain." Looking at the weather in Tanzania might give you an idea of the heavy...frequent...flow. Those have been brewing in my mind as how I'm thinking about approaching it... Have you tested yours for cytrid?? any tadpoles that might result will be affected--hopefully you have the labs who can test for you, and if you do need some info on meds...we'll pass that along to you from posts on DB...or from what was suggested to me...
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

I have had 2 of them for almost 4 years now. The females reabsorb the eggs if they don't lay. I know they are gravid for quite some time. In fact I think mine has been this way for at least 2 or 3 years. I know there was one brief time when she wasn't anymore so she must have reabsorbed them.

Mine have only been in amplexus once and that was last year not sure what triggered it unfortunately. My male calls frequently however even though they are always kept in the mid to low 20s he hasn't called during this winter. I think it must be to do with atmospheric pressure or something it's -20C outside in canada and the air is very dry. I am currently trying to get them breed with a misting system and a false stream and a big soil bank with caves and holes in it however for the past week and a half all they like to do is climb all over the front glass of the tank lol.

I am going to put them back in their old setup this week as the male hasn't even called and I shall try again when it's warmer and humid outside.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

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Good luck to you!!! This is a species not easily bred in captivity. In fact I've not heard of ANYONE pulling it off. They are a great frog!!!! I hope you have luck!
A year ago or two ago some random guy posted pictures of his which laid eggs on talktothefrog. I remember the picture of the eggs being laid in a mass of roots of a plant. It is next to impossible to find the thread since the forum is filled with spam now. I know another person had success on a different amphibian forum from the UK who had eggs laid in the substrate of the tank. I believe in was in spag moss. That forum is shut down now and unreachable. I remember the picture so vividly from talktothefrog but I tried a search and I can not find it. I know some threads have been deleted over there by accident because of the forum having a lot of spam.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:49 AM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

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I have had 2 of them for almost 4 years now. The females reabsorb the eggs if they don't lay. I know they are gravid for quite some time. In fact I think mine has been this way for at least 2 or 3 years. I know there was one brief time when she wasn't anymore so she must have reabsorbed them.

Mine have only been in amplexus once and that was last year not sure what triggered it unfortunately. My male calls frequently however even though they are always kept in the mid to low 20s he hasn't called during this winter. I think it must be to do with atmospheric pressure or something it's -20C outside in canada and the air is very dry. I am currently trying to get them breed with a misting system and a false stream and a big soil bank with caves and holes in it however for the past week and a half all they like to do is climb all over the front glass of the tank lol.

I am going to put them back in their old setup this week as the male hasn't even called and I shall try again when it's warmer and humid outside.
Have you tried sand mixed with wet sphagnum moss? I have heard and read that some people think they lay there eggs along the edge of streams. I am guessing these frogs neat a good heat cycle where it is noticeably warmer and dryer then cooler with high humidity to stimulate breeding. Like the Rainy season in Tanzania. I would try and figure out in Canada when and what time of year you get violent summer storms and follow your weather closely and throw them in a rain chamber then. I know it is hard as hell to know when you will have a good thunderstorm in the middle of summer but it may be worth a shot. Many people notice a lot of excitement from the frogs in their frogrooms when a storm front is moving through. This may be the perfect time to try and get them to breed.
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Old 03-03-2014, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

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Have you tried sand mixed with wet sphagnum moss? I have heard and read that some people think they lay there eggs along the edge of streams. I am guessing these frogs neat a good heat cycle where it is noticeably warmer and dryer then cooler with high humidity to stimulate breeding. Like the Rainy season in Tanzania. I would try and figure out in Canada when and what time of year you get violent summer storms and follow your weather closely and throw them in a rain chamber then. I know it is hard as hell to know when you will have a good thunderstorm in the middle of summer but it may be worth a shot. Many people notice a lot of excitement from the frogs in their frogrooms when a storm front is moving through. This may be the perfect time to try and get them to breed.
I just put spagnum moss around the stream I made and inside the mud caves. I didn't mix it with sand though... I think my set up is right but its not the right time for them... Like I said the male won't call right now and they just like to climb around all night and won't settle down. I had them dry and warmer before I put them into the breeding tank which is colder and damp have also been feeding them every night or so. They haven't walked on the soil bank I made they are either around the side of the stream or on the glass, ledges and branches. Maybe I need more males?

I will give them another week or maybe just leave them in there as I can't be bothered to take it all down just to reconstruct it a few months... I won't use the misting system so it will dry up a bit and then when the stormy weather comes i'll turn it on and say a prayer lol
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

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I have had 2 of them for almost 4 years now. The females reabsorb the eggs if they don't lay. I know they are gravid for quite some time. In fact I think mine has been this way for at least 2 or 3 years. I know there was one brief time when she wasn't anymore so she must have reabsorbed them.
I'm very dubious of this claim. If the female has ovulated, and you can see the eggs in the female, then they are mature eggs. The only eggs in amphibians that are documented to be reabsorbed (technical word atresia) are immature eggs (before they pass down the oviduct and aquire the membranes). In frogs, the eggs are passed in the body cavity (coelum) and from there into a ovisac where they are held until they are laid. There isn't any mechanism that allows for eggs to be reabsorbed in the ovisac. What is much more probable is that the female passed the eggs in small quantities that were missed by the keepers or that there may have been a rupture in the ovisac releasing the eggs back into the body cavity. The second is a potential issue as they can result in adhesions and other problems that may cause illness and/or death in the frog.

There are some other complications coming to light about this species... for example, there is some preliminary data indicating that this is not one species but a complex of species. This can be a major issue with attempts at captive breeding as interspecies cues maybe insufficient to trigger oviposition.
See Leptopelis uluguruensis

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Old 03-03-2014, 05:30 PM
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I'm very dubious of this claim. If the female has ovulated, and you can see the eggs in the female, then they are mature eggs. The only eggs in amphibians that are documented to be reabsorbed (technical word atresia) are immature eggs (before they pass down the oviduct and aquire the membranes). In frogs, the eggs are passed in the body cavity (coelum) and from there into a ovisac where they are held until they are laid. There isn't any mechanism that allows for eggs to be reabsorbed in the ovisac. What is much more probable is that the female passed the eggs in small quantities that were missed by the keepers or that there may have been a rupture in the ovisac releasing the eggs back into the body cavity. The second is a potential issue as they can result in adhesions and other problems that may cause illness and/or death in the frog.

There are some other complications coming to light about this species... for example, there is some preliminary data indicating that this is not one species but a complex of species. This can be a major issue with attempts at captive breeding as interspecies cues maybe insufficient to trigger oviposition.
See Leptopelis uluguruensis

Some comments

Ed
At that time I kept the frogs on a type of reptile carpet so there were no places she could have released these eggs... I saw them inside her one night and then when I saw her again on the glass she was alot slimmer and no longer had any... This was 3 years ago and only happened once, whatever happened obviously wasn't fatal as she is still alive now and is gravid again. Will the female release eggs when not in amplexus though?
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:33 PM
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At that time I kept the frogs on a type of reptile carpet so there were no places she could have released these eggs... I saw them inside her one night and then when I saw her again on the glass she was alot slimmer and no longer had any... This was 3 years ago and only happened once, whatever happened obviously wasn't fatal as she is still alive now and is gravid again. Will the female release eggs when not in amplexus though?
Yes they can release eggs without being in amplexus. This is a picture of a A. zeteki that began to release eggs several years after she ovulated them... She died due to the formation of adhesions which caused problems once she began to deposit them.

Keep in mind that eggs that are held in the ovisac as opposed to dispersed into the body cavity are going to make the frog look fatter....
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:35 PM
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There are some other complications coming to light about this species... for example, there is some preliminary data indicating that this is not one species but a complex of species. This can be a major issue with attempts at captive breeding as interspecies cues maybe insufficient to trigger oviposition.
See Leptopelis uluguruensis

Some comments

Ed
There seems to be alot of differences in color and pattern between each one sometimes. I had one male (who died) who was a light blue gray/ brown at night with light brown eyes and no 'mold' spots at all. My other male that I still have now is yellowy green(sometimes brown speckles) with bright yellow 'mold' spots and his eyes are so dark you cant seen his pupils. However they both had the same call if thats anything to go by to confirm they were the same species.
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:39 PM
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There seems to be alot of differences in color and pattern between each one sometimes. I had one male (who died) who was a light blue gray/ brown at night with light brown eyes and no 'mold' spots at all. My other male that I still have now is yellowy green(sometimes brown speckles) with bright yellow 'mold' spots and his eyes are so dark you cant seen his pupils. However they both had the same call if thats anything to go by to confirm they were the same species.
Nope, it appears to be what is called "cryptic speciation" which is where the animals are either exactly alike visually or very similar visually. Variations in calls can be very subtle and require analysis to prove the difference.

For an example see Hauswaldt, J. S., A.-K. Ludewig, M. Vences, and H. Pröhl. 2011. Widespread co-occurrence of divergent mitochondrial haplotype lineages in a Central American species of poison frog (Oophaga pumilio). Journal of Biogeography 38: 711–726.

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Old 03-03-2014, 05:45 PM
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Well their call starts with a HEH HEH HEH HEH HEH then a pause then a number of loud short POPs. Both males did this they were exactly the same and didn't require analysis to tell them apart!

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Old 03-03-2014, 05:49 PM
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Well their call starts with a HEH HEH HEH HEH HEH then a pause then a number of loud short POPs. Both males did this they were exact and didn't require analysis to tell them apart!
And with that statement it's clear that you have made up your mind, don't understand the science and any effort further on my part is a waste of time.

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Old 03-06-2014, 08:21 PM
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Ed--I tried the link you provided but it did not work...can you repost??? Thanks
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Old 03-09-2014, 01:42 AM
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Ed--I tried the link you provided but it did not work...can you repost??? Thanks
Judy, I'm not sure why but I just checked it and it worked. Try this Leptopelis uluguruensis

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Old 03-09-2014, 02:40 PM
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Ed...thanks for reposting...that time it did work...and I'd seen that before but it sure doesn't reveal much! Wish you had made it to MADS..wonderful to meet the faces behind the screen names...
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:22 AM
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So I have had mine in a breeding setup for almost 3 weeks now and nothing lol. The male has started calling again but only a couple of times a week.
I have found more information on the weather and temperature ranges on where they are in the wild. Apparently there isn't much difference between day and night temperatures (23 C down to 21 C) Which is pretty much similar to what I have been keeping them at.

More info here: Uluguru Mountains Weather Forecast (1000m)
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:08 PM
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Andaroo...I wondered how much their breeding season was similiar to ours--the hemisphere vs. their's...In Tanzania, the monsoon season is on now, and will continue 'til the middle of May...so do they respond to that time--since they are all WC---or would they be apt to breed in our fall??? I wonder whether there are DB members in Europe who might know someone, who might know someone...or a board such as DB..who could give advice on them.....
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Old 03-14-2014, 02:39 AM
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Andaroo...I wondered how much their breeding season was similiar to ours--the hemisphere vs. their's...In Tanzania, the monsoon season is on now, and will continue 'til the middle of May...so do they respond to that time--since they are all WC---or would they be apt to breed in our fall??? I wonder whether there are DB members in Europe who might know someone, who might know someone...or a board such as DB..who could give advice on them.....
I would imagine they would change to our seasons because of atmospheric pressure and what not, but i'm not entirely sure. They adapt to our time zone though so i'm sure it's not impossible. It's a really bad winter here still in Canada so in May the weather will be nice again and maybe it will trigger something who knows? Probably not lol.

I found this average weather chart on the area so the "cooling" period that I have seen suggested many times is incorrect the average temperature doesn't go lower than 20


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Old 03-14-2014, 03:12 AM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

I have just recently started the rainy season with my L. vermiculatus pair. They are in a 30 Quart sterlite with ABG mix and some Sansevieria trifasciata. I had them dry from October until mid February when I started the rainy season.

I kept them bone dry, almost to the point of emulating a scrub type habitat with light rains only twice a month at best. It should be noted I barely fed either. During this time they stayed completely buried under the roots where it stayed slightly damp, just enough to keep them from drying out. It seemed as though they were in a state of torpor.

For starting up the rainy season I misted vigourously multiple times a day, and poured almost 1/2 a gallon of water into the tank, enough to nearly cover the soil in a centimeter of water. I have continuously sprayed and kept the ABG very damp. The male is calling every evening, but I have yet to witness amplexus (which is to say it has not happened already.)

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Old 03-14-2014, 03:41 AM
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I have just recently started the rainy season with my L. vermiculatus pair. They are in a 30 Quart sterlite with ABG mix and some Sansevieria trifasciata. I had them dry from October until mid February when I started the rainy season.

I kept them bone dry, almost to the point of emulating a scrub type habitat with light rains only twice a month at best. It should be noted I barely fed either. During this time they stayed completely buried under the roots where it stayed slightly damp, just enough to keep them from drying out. It seemed as though they were in a state of torpor.

For starting up the rainy season I misted vigourously multiple times a day, and poured almost 1/2 a gallon of water into the tank, enough to nearly cover the soil in a centimeter of water. I have continuously sprayed and kept the ABG very damp. The male is calling every evening, but I have yet to witness amplexus (which is to say it has not happened already.)

D
When you say bone dry do you mean you didn't provide a water dish or that you didn't mist and kept humidity low?
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Old 03-14-2014, 04:34 AM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

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When you say bone dry do you mean you didn't provide a water dish or that you didn't mist and kept humidity low?
I did not provide any water other than the occasional misting. It stayed sufficiently damp in the roots of the plants.

D
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

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I did not provide any water other than the occasional misting. It stayed sufficiently damp in the roots of the plants.

D
I'm sure in the wild they must be able to find a water source throughout the year. I think it's a bit risky.
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Old 10-05-2014, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

Any reports from this thread from 6 mo ago?
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Old 10-05-2014, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

I have some frogs from the same genus, and I tested with dry periods of about a month. They usually bury themselves underground for 2 weeks, and then after the dry period is over, they start calling like crazy! Note they do have a small pool of water during the dry perioad
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Old 10-06-2014, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

Nothing happened with mine and I just put them back into their original set up.
I stopped misting them for a few months and heavily misted the other week, the male was calling all night and then the next time I looked he had hitched a ride



my tank has moving water and damp soil, and even a big leaf over hanging the water just incase they do use the traditional methods lol. Nothing happened, they spent all night like that then slept like that during the day and then the second night she kicked him off lol.

I also acquired 4 more of them, I think at least 3 of them are males, the last one I am not sure about they are a lot smaller than my original 2.

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Old 10-15-2014, 06:03 AM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

Hi,

there is a french guy who successfully bred several Leptopelis species (vermiculatus, flavomaculatus and the most "common" uluguruensis, and aubryi). His website: www.bigeyesworld.com
In an email conversation with him he mentioned that the most difficult to breed is uluguruensis, far ahead.

kind regards,
Martin
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

anyone willing/able to translate???
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Breeding ruby-eyed tree frogs??

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anyone willing/able to translate???
just copy-paste into google translate and let the internet do all the work for you.
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