Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis - Dendroboard
Dendroboard

Go Back   Dendroboard > Dart Frogs > Species > Phyllobates
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Advertise


Support Our Sponsors
No Threads to Display.

facebook

Like Tree6Likes
  • 1 Post By Encyclia
  • 1 Post By Jurgenvdd
  • 2 Post By Jurgenvdd
  • 1 Post By Jurgenvdd
  • 1 Post By Jurgenvdd

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2018, 02:16 PM
S2G's Avatar
S2G S2G is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: AL
Posts: 722
Thanks: 24
Thanked 56 Times in 52 Posts
Default Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

I've been looking around and can't really find any real detailed info on the catch location on black foot Terribilis. I'm not proposing mixing, but I'm curious are BF's in a completely different location? Or is this just a natural variation?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2018, 04:47 PM
Jeremiah's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Camden, Maine
Posts: 307
Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

I believe they never gave the location info because they- tesoros- didnt want that info getting to smugglers. The black foots have only been in the hobby a few years whereas the original oranges have been in the hobby for many, many moons.

They are certainly different enough to keep separated.
__________________
"Jeremiah was a bullfrog! Dun-a-dun. Was a good friend of mine!..." Three Dog Night
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2018, 06:49 PM
S2G's Avatar
S2G S2G is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: AL
Posts: 722
Thanks: 24
Thanked 56 Times in 52 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

I didn't think about that. Good point

Do they deal with the regular orange as well?
Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2018, 07:16 PM
Jeremiah's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Camden, Maine
Posts: 307
Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Tesoros has only released the yellow black foot and orange black foot that I have seen... but dont quote me on that, as I have been in and out of the hobby for years and may have missed a shipment.
__________________
"Jeremiah was a bullfrog! Dun-a-dun. Was a good friend of mine!..." Three Dog Night
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2019, 09:40 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 1,740
Thanks: 89
Thanked 80 Times in 79 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremiah View Post
Tesoros has only released the yellow black foot and orange black foot that I have seen... but dont quote me on that, as I have been in and out of the hobby for years and may have missed a shipment.
Can anyone let me know what the difference between the yellow blackfoot and the orange black foot terribilis?

Are they from the same population?

Are they noticeably different?

Anyone out there work with both?
__________________
Michael
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2019, 10:09 PM
Encyclia's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,866
Thanks: 114
Thanked 205 Times in 191 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Can't find the thread right now, but wasn't there a thread recently that said that the black foots were the result of line breeding? Maybe I am misremembering.

Mark
Tijl likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2019, 03:13 PM
bsr8129's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ontario Cali
Posts: 827
Thanks: 15
Thanked 34 Times in 30 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encyclia View Post
Can't find the thread right now, but wasn't there a thread recently that said that the black foots were the result of line breeding? Maybe I am misremembering.

Mark
Yes that is was what said in an article from natural geographic (i think) that they quotes tesos saying that.
__________________
A few
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2019, 03:41 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

I just got this yesterday.I got it for free for some reason. Is this black foot terribilis? https://i.imgur.com/Mi8LvMe.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2019, 05:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tracy, CA
Posts: 1,740
Thanks: 89
Thanked 80 Times in 79 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encyclia View Post
Can't find the thread right now, but wasn't there a thread recently that said that the black foots were the result of line breeding? Maybe I am misremembering.

Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsr8129 View Post
Yes that is was what said in an article from natural geographic (i think) that they quotes tesos saying that.
The Nat Geo article did mention that, but didn't say whether they were from the same population or not. If they are from the same population they ought to be bred together. If from separate populations they should be kept separate. Just wanted to see if anyone knew any more than what was mentioned in that article. I emailed Tesoros for an answer but in the meantime, was hoping someone else had maybe inquired about this before myself.
__________________
Michael
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 07:23 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

They are from the same population.
It is just a selection of colour.
See link:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/a...mbia-wildlife/


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk
Tijl likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 07:26 PM
Encyclia's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,866
Thanks: 114
Thanked 205 Times in 191 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Quote:
Originally Posted by varanoid View Post
The Nat Geo article did mention that, but didn't say whether they were from the same population or not. If they are from the same population they ought to be bred together. If from separate populations they should be kept separate. Just wanted to see if anyone knew any more than what was mentioned in that article. I emailed Tesoros for an answer but in the meantime, was hoping someone else had maybe inquired about this before myself.
Michael, did you ever hear back from Tesoros?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 07:32 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Quote:
Originally Posted by danggrianto View Post
I just got this yesterday.I got it for free for some reason. Is this black foot terribilis? https://i.imgur.com/Mi8LvMe.jpg


This is a yellow or orange terribilis that didnít do a complete colour change. It will look like this when big. It is like the Blackfoot but just a bit more black. Having 2 adults with this colour doesnít result always in the same colour. 80 % is the same colour and 20% normal yellow or orange.
If a yellow doesnít change colour he is like this

I wasnít able to breed with this colour yet.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk
Encyclia and Tijl like this.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:06 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

1 of the youngsters I have now of the not complete coloured
Blackfoot youngster



Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:16 PM
Tijl's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 208
Thanks: 32
Thanked 26 Times in 17 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Beautifull animals!

I used too have a couple terribilis that had a grey patern on their back.

Male :



Male and female :

__________________
Bastimentos,Citronella,Azureus,Hahneli,Patricia,Te rribilis,Escudo,Tumucumaque,Histrionica Bullseye.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:22 PM
PhylloBro's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 150
Thanks: 19
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

I (heard) there is no such thing as a true Yellow blackfoot terribilis. That it was just orange blackfoots that appeared more yellow and were sold as yellow blackfoot terribilis. Only the orange blackfoot is a true morph.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:31 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhylloBro View Post
I (heard) there is no such thing as a true Yellow blackfoot terribilis. That it was just orange blackfoots that appeared more yellow and were sold as yellow blackfoot terribilis. Only the orange blackfoot is a true morph.


Not even the Blackfoot is a true morph. Only a colour selection.
It can be that different location have more with black feet than others but it is an orange or a yellow that accidentally has black feet. It can be that out of a Blackfoot pair you end op with normal orange and the other way around


Even the orange in the hobby are often yellow selections where they give carotene supplements and extra uv to build up the colour. If you stop to give the supplement they slowly go back to yellow.


Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk

Last edited by Jurgenvdd; 07-15-2019 at 08:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:36 PM
Tijl's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 208
Thanks: 32
Thanked 26 Times in 17 Posts
Default

Arr there more colors than orange, mint and yellow? I was told there used too be blue terribilis in the hobby.
__________________
Bastimentos,Citronella,Azureus,Hahneli,Patricia,Te rribilis,Escudo,Tumucumaque,Histrionica Bullseye.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:37 PM
Socratic Monologue's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Central WI
Posts: 794
Thanks: 34
Thanked 88 Times in 83 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

I can't see the pics, Tijl, but I'd like to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijl View Post
Beautifull animals!

I used too have a couple terribilis that had a grey patern on their back.

Male :



Male and female :

__________________
"People are like plants, they grow toward the light."
- Hope Jahren
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 08:52 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijl View Post
Arr there more colors than orange, mint and yellow? I was told there used too be blue terribilis in the hobby.


The blue is also a selection in the mints.
More Blue/green, more yellow and complete white.
I now have 6 colours.(mint,orange,yellow,yellow Blackfoot,orange Blackfoot and Black) It is possible that I the future I will make 3 groups of mint to have a the 3 colours
But in reality there are only 3 colours.
Mint,orange and yellow.
All the others are colour selections in the hobby or from different locations in the wild.
There we only use colours and not places for terribilis I think it is hard to separate them in the hobby by location or population.
To late for this I think.



Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk
Tijl likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2019, 09:13 PM
PhylloBro's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 150
Thanks: 19
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Default Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurgenvdd View Post
The blue is also a selection in the mints.
More Blue/green, more yellow and complete white.
I now have 6 colours.(mint,orange,yellow,yellow Blackfoot,orange Blackfoot and Black) It is possible that I the future I will make 3 groups of mint to have a the 3 colours
But in reality there are only 3 colours.
Mint,orange and yellow.
All the others are colour selections in the hobby or from different locations in the wild.
There we only use colours and not places for terribilis I think it is hard to separate them in the hobby by location or population.
To late for this I think.



Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk
Would you find these frogs as for example, "blue terribilis" or is this a color that occured from animals bred in someones collection? I am a bit suspicious of color morphs that cannot be connected a wild population or locale because of the potential of line breeding and hybridization.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2019, 11:50 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis

Terribilis stays a special frog compared with other frogs.
For starters the terribilis was already mixed by Indians that took the frogs for hunting. So several populations where a mix of different colours due to humans.
Also due to the guerrilla wars and the drugs cartels in the region Terribilis is not a common import to other countries.
This is also the reason that we speak about a colour and not a place like for other frogs. In the wild I think there are several colour tones. But in the past they are mixed in the hobby. In my opinion there are only 2(3) colours and several tones. You can discuss about yellow and orange.
The blue colour mint is an existing tone but in the hobby people selected them to guarantee a blue offspring colour.
In the hobby this is also done for pumps and tincs.
Maybe 30% of bastimentos red frog beach is really from red frog beach. If it is not an import from frogs caught in the wild you never know if it is correct. Even the black foots are a colour selection by Tesoros. More colours = unique color=more money.
For tesoros this is ok for me there the money goes back to the frogs but this is also in the hobby. I also have the black one knowing this is a hybrid color. If you are honest about this I do not see a problem. It is not that the animals go back to the wild.
Do I get more money for the blacks? I do not know, until now I did not have offsprings. I only want a terribilis and if possible all the colour/tones in the hobby. If I sell offsprings I only use the names in the hobby. At the moment we only speak about mints and not about blue,yellow and white mint. So if we give new names a new frog is born even when it is the same as the terribilis mint from before and we add some $. Fore me it is about the hobby, the well-being of the frogs and enjoying whenever possible.
Iím not interested in the $. New colours or species that appear are often only for the $.

Is the blue a hybrid no.

Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk
Tijl likes this.

Last edited by Jurgenvdd; 07-16-2019 at 12:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jurgenvdd For This Useful Post:
Tijl (07-16-2019)
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Orange Terribilis Color Variations djone2 Phyllobates 2 08-18-2012 02:28 PM
Black Jungle orange terribilis line? Arklier General Discussion 5 10-25-2005 06:53 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.