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-   Phyllobates (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/phyllobates/)
-   -   Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/phyllobates/348704-lets-talk-orange-vs-black-foot-terribilis.html)

S2G 09-24-2018 02:16 PM

Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
I've been looking around and can't really find any real detailed info on the catch location on black foot Terribilis. I'm not proposing mixing, but I'm curious are BF's in a completely different location? Or is this just a natural variation?

Jeremiah 09-24-2018 04:47 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
I believe they never gave the location info because they- tesoros- didnt want that info getting to smugglers. The black foots have only been in the hobby a few years whereas the original oranges have been in the hobby for many, many moons.

They are certainly different enough to keep separated.

S2G 09-24-2018 06:49 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
I didn't think about that. Good point

Do they deal with the regular orange as well?

Jeremiah 09-24-2018 07:16 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Tesoros has only released the yellow black foot and orange black foot that I have seen... but dont quote me on that, as I have been in and out of the hobby for years and may have missed a shipment.

varanoid 03-26-2019 09:40 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremiah (Post 3045960)
Tesoros has only released the yellow black foot and orange black foot that I have seen... but dont quote me on that, as I have been in and out of the hobby for years and may have missed a shipment.

Can anyone let me know what the difference between the yellow blackfoot and the orange black foot terribilis?

Are they from the same population?

Are they noticeably different?

Anyone out there work with both?

Encyclia 03-26-2019 10:09 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Can't find the thread right now, but wasn't there a thread recently that said that the black foots were the result of line breeding? Maybe I am misremembering.

Mark

bsr8129 03-27-2019 03:13 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Encyclia (Post 3059992)
Can't find the thread right now, but wasn't there a thread recently that said that the black foots were the result of line breeding? Maybe I am misremembering.

Mark

Yes that is was what said in an article from natural geographic (i think) that they quotes tesos saying that.

danggrianto 03-27-2019 03:41 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
I just got this yesterday.I got it for free for some reason. Is this black foot terribilis? https://i.imgur.com/Mi8LvMe.jpg

varanoid 03-27-2019 05:29 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Encyclia (Post 3059992)
Can't find the thread right now, but wasn't there a thread recently that said that the black foots were the result of line breeding? Maybe I am misremembering.

Mark

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsr8129 (Post 3060040)
Yes that is was what said in an article from natural geographic (i think) that they quotes tesos saying that.

The Nat Geo article did mention that, but didn't say whether they were from the same population or not. If they are from the same population they ought to be bred together. If from separate populations they should be kept separate. Just wanted to see if anyone knew any more than what was mentioned in that article. I emailed Tesoros for an answer but in the meantime, was hoping someone else had maybe inquired about this before myself.

Jurgenvdd 07-15-2019 07:23 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
They are from the same population.
It is just a selection of colour.
See link:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/a...mbia-wildlife/


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Encyclia 07-15-2019 07:26 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by varanoid (Post 3060060)
The Nat Geo article did mention that, but didn't say whether they were from the same population or not. If they are from the same population they ought to be bred together. If from separate populations they should be kept separate. Just wanted to see if anyone knew any more than what was mentioned in that article. I emailed Tesoros for an answer but in the meantime, was hoping someone else had maybe inquired about this before myself.

Michael, did you ever hear back from Tesoros?

Jurgenvdd 07-15-2019 07:32 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by danggrianto (Post 3060044)
I just got this yesterday.I got it for free for some reason. Is this black foot terribilis? https://i.imgur.com/Mi8LvMe.jpg



This is a yellow or orange terribilis that didnít do a complete colour change. It will look like this when big. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3592dd8057.jpgIt is like the Blackfoot but just a bit more black. Having 2 adults with this colour doesnít result always in the same colour. 80 % is the same colour and 20% normal yellow or orange.
If a yellow doesnít change colour he is like this
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...6e2a7e4c2d.jpg
I wasnít able to breed with this colour yet.


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Jurgenvdd 07-15-2019 08:06 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
1 of the youngsters I have now of the not complete coloured https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...bc5de28cc0.jpg
Blackfoot youngsterhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3ae854b692.jpg



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Tijl 07-15-2019 08:16 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Beautifull animals!

I used too have a couple terribilis that had a grey patern on their back.

Male :

http://i66.tinypic.com/nn2xl1.jpg

Male and female :

http://i65.tinypic.com/14mwsp.jpg

PhylloBro 07-15-2019 08:22 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
I (heard) there is no such thing as a true Yellow blackfoot terribilis. That it was just orange blackfoots that appeared more yellow and were sold as yellow blackfoot terribilis. Only the orange blackfoot is a true morph.

Jurgenvdd 07-15-2019 08:31 PM

Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhylloBro (Post 3068072)
I (heard) there is no such thing as a true Yellow blackfoot terribilis. That it was just orange blackfoots that appeared more yellow and were sold as yellow blackfoot terribilis. Only the orange blackfoot is a true morph.



Not even the Blackfoot is a true morph. Only a colour selection.
It can be that different location have more with black feet than others but it is an orange or a yellow that accidentally has black feet. It can be that out of a Blackfoot pair you end op with normal orange and the other way around


Even the orange in the hobby are often yellow selections where they give carotene supplements and extra uv to build up the colour. If you stop to give the supplement they slowly go back to yellow.


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Tijl 07-15-2019 08:36 PM

Arr there more colors than orange, mint and yellow? I was told there used too be blue terribilis in the hobby.

Socratic Monologue 07-15-2019 08:37 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
I can't see the pics, Tijl, but I'd like to. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijl (Post 3068064)
Beautifull animals!

I used too have a couple terribilis that had a grey patern on their back.

Male :

http://i66.tinypic.com/nn2xl1.jpg

Male and female :

http://i65.tinypic.com/14mwsp.jpg


Jurgenvdd 07-15-2019 08:52 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijl (Post 3068080)
Arr there more colors than orange, mint and yellow? I was told there used too be blue terribilis in the hobby.



The blue is also a selection in the mints.
More Blue/green, more yellow and complete white.
I now have 6 colours.(mint,orange,yellow,yellow Blackfoot,orange Blackfoot and Black) It is possible that I the future I will make 3 groups of mint to have a the 3 colours
But in reality there are only 3 colours.
Mint,orange and yellow.
All the others are colour selections in the hobby or from different locations in the wild.
There we only use colours and not places for terribilis I think it is hard to separate them in the hobby by location or population.
To late for this I think.



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PhylloBro 07-15-2019 09:13 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurgenvdd (Post 3068084)
The blue is also a selection in the mints.
More Blue/green, more yellow and complete white.
I now have 6 colours.(mint,orange,yellow,yellow Blackfoot,orange Blackfoot and Black) It is possible that I the future I will make 3 groups of mint to have a the 3 colours
But in reality there are only 3 colours.
Mint,orange and yellow.
All the others are colour selections in the hobby or from different locations in the wild.
There we only use colours and not places for terribilis I think it is hard to separate them in the hobby by location or population.
To late for this I think.



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Would you find these frogs as for example, "blue terribilis" or is this a color that occured from animals bred in someones collection? I am a bit suspicious of color morphs that cannot be connected a wild population or locale because of the potential of line breeding and hybridization.

Jurgenvdd 07-16-2019 11:50 AM

Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Terribilis stays a special frog compared with other frogs.
For starters the terribilis was already mixed by Indians that took the frogs for hunting. So several populations where a mix of different colours due to humans.
Also due to the guerrilla wars and the drugs cartels in the region Terribilis is not a common import to other countries.
This is also the reason that we speak about a colour and not a place like for other frogs. In the wild I think there are several colour tones. But in the past they are mixed in the hobby. In my opinion there are only 2(3) colours and several tones. You can discuss about yellow and orange.
The blue colour mint is an existing tone but in the hobby people selected them to guarantee a blue offspring colour.
In the hobby this is also done for pumps and tincs.
Maybe 30% of bastimentos red frog beach is really from red frog beach. If it is not an import from frogs caught in the wild you never know if it is correct. Even the black foots are a colour selection by Tesoros. More colours = unique color=more money.
For tesoros this is ok for me there the money goes back to the frogs but this is also in the hobby. I also have the black one knowing this is a hybrid color. If you are honest about this I do not see a problem. It is not that the animals go back to the wild.
Do I get more money for the blacks? I do not know, until now I did not have offsprings. I only want a terribilis and if possible all the colour/tones in the hobby. If I sell offsprings I only use the names in the hobby. At the moment we only speak about mints and not about blue,yellow and white mint. So if we give new names a new frog is born even when it is the same as the terribilis mint from before and we add some $. Fore me it is about the hobby, the well-being of the frogs and enjoying whenever possible.
Iím not interested in the $. New colours or species that appear are often only for the $.

Is the blue a hybrid no.

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Ruskii_Nomad 10-02-2019 04:43 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by danggrianto (Post 3060044)
I just got this yesterday.I got it for free for some reason. Is this black foot terribilis? https://i.imgur.com/Mi8LvMe.jpg

Yeap, I have 6 of these froglets right now. So I am positive those are BF Terri.

Jurgenvdd 11-20-2019 08:02 PM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...0565c4d18d.jpg


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bigmike55 02-10-2020 03:10 AM

Re: Lets talk orange vs black foot terribilis
 
Both are cool in different ways everyone should have both in collection


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