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Old 05-08-2017, 01:15 AM
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Default Seeking comfirmation/advice

Hello and I hope everyone's having a great weekend!
So, here's the story... I purchased three juvenile "intermedius imitators" today from my local reptile specialty store as my first thumbnails. I noticed they weren't as orange as I thought they'd be and slightly larger than I was expecting, but they weren't certain on their exact age. I chatted with the guy that got them out for me and said they purchased them from one of the trusted breeders that they have worked with for a while and they usually get most of their darts at the Tinley park show (these particular ones were acquired in march). When I initially approached him he mentioned he wasn't certain of the names of the darts and had me show him which ones I was talking about, so I don't think they are intentionally being deceptive. I got home and got them settled and was actually poking around josh's frogs making sure I'm signed up to be notified for some frogs I'm interested in given the season and I noticed some striking similarities when I stumbled upon phyllobates vittatus.... so just looking for confirmation that these are not intermedius imitators and in fact vittatus along with how to handle this situation. They're already home and part of the family, so I'm keeping them regardless, but there is the matter that I kind of paid more than double the going rate for them. Any advice or guidance about what you would do in this situation is appreciated!

Thanks for reading!
Andrea
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Last edited by andfrogs; 05-08-2017 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Seeking comfirmation/advice

Wow, that's quite the mixup. Those are definitely vittatus. what setup do you have for them right now? They generally like more horizontal space than vertical space, but otherwise the care should not differ too greatly from thumbnails other than the fact that they can eat larger food items as adults and will not climb as much.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:24 AM
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That's what I thought, thanks for your reply! They're in a quarantine tank right now and I have a 20 high horizontal setup, but I'm guessing ideally they'd have at least a little more space once their fully grown?
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Old 05-08-2017, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: Seeking comfirmation/advice

Agree they are definitely Vitattus. It's easy enough to do the research on how to take care of them...more difficult is how to appropriately handle the situation of being sold incorrectly identified frogs. The easiest thing to do to not say anything and just enjoy your new frogs. I don't think that benefits the hobby, or the owner of your local business, for that matter. I would probably lean towards saying something to the owner of the store. I would definitely make sure you talk to the owner...and I'd probably try to diplomatically say, 'Hey, you advertised these frogs as this...I paid the premium for them...I'm not interested in returning them, but how can we make this right?'. Something to that effect. Just my .02
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Old 05-08-2017, 11:21 AM
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Thanks for the advice, I'll be giving them a call today so we'll see how that goes! At the very least I'm sure they'll change the label and whoever buys the rest will get a better deal
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:01 PM
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Default Re: Seeking comfirmation/advice

Not only should they know what type of frogs they're selling, but they should also be able to provide lineage information. Without knowing what line they are, they're values are further reduced.
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:48 PM
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Update for anyone curious... called them and was told multiple times that they are marked correctly and that they are just juveniles so they look a little different- told them that I've spoken with experienced p. Vittatus keepers and confirmed the species identification (which is why I posted in the first place, so thank you to everyone who has responded). The guy looked into it and called me back- they were 'placed into the wrong box.' So I can either bring them back for a refund or keep them since they are the same price. I pushed that they are usually sold at different price points and was told that different retailers set their own prices and he was just relaying his boss's answer.... then I got called back and he said their price for the vittatuses is 50 and so they refunded me the difference. Thank you to everyone for your help- and lesson learned, trust the gut!
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Old 05-09-2017, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Seeking comfirmation/advice

did you just say that they sell vittatus for $50? if so that is way above market value for them.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:38 AM
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Yeah, but I figure if I ordered 3 from josh's frogs right now it would be ~150 with shipping which is about what I ended up paying for them, so I figure it's relatively fair? I'll probably go in sometime soon to make sure they re-labeled the remaining frogs and that they are indeed charging 50 because the only reason I got any money back was because the guy assumed I was going to bring them back in for a refund. I mean when it comes down to it money's just money and these little guys are priceless :P And, in the future, I'll just make the trip to the Tinley park show myself since it sounds like that's where they get all their darts from minus a pair of leucs that they breed themselves.
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Old 05-10-2017, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Seeking comfirmation/advice

Well, good to see that things for the most part have worked out. If you can, get their lineage/origin. That way if they breed, you can sell them with information of their lineage which in this hobby, is an important aspect.
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:00 PM
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Thanks for the advice- a couple questions- after oldlady's response I was doing some reading about vittatus lines and there were posts that talked about there being a much more common 'narrow' stripe line and then a wide line, but there were also some that referred to a more orange line in which the stripes vary from yellow to much darker versus a more red line that seems to breed true. Is this the desired lineage info I should be after in the future? Or tracing back to import? Based on the interactions I've had with where I purchased them, I really don't think anyone will remember who they acquired what from, so I'll probably try to get the names of all possibilities and go from there. Also, is this expectation pretty universal- independent of species? I'm asking because I have leucs that I purchased there as well, but I have a feeling they'll be more difficult to track down.
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