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Old 02-21-2013, 09:43 PM
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Default Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

So I have a great idea that was inspired by Dusk Tropic's EpiWeb construction:

http://www.dusk.se/3220022524_cf8158ffb8_b.jpg

I want to essentially have a cool centerpiece in my kitchen. I have glass shelves on a wall with lights above it, and there is a 2 foot gap until the ceiling. This won't be a part of a viv, just a free standing pillar sitting in a tray of water.

Any ideas on this?

My steps to making this will be:

1) Carve a foam pillar (do you know where a common place is to get foam? Home Depot?)

2) Cover the pillar in Folius' Hygrolon sheet

3) Use the Dusk Tropic Moss Mix to paint a moss wall on the pillar

4) Use one of Josh's Frogs 64 oz. Containers to hold the water that will be wicked by the hygrolon hopefully

5) Maybe attach some Ficus Pumila Var. Minima cuttings on the pillar

All in all, do you guys think this will work? I know it's a big thing to try, but I figure that it's worth a shot.

One last thing: Will the moss and ficus grow without the humidity of a viv? I think that they would grow as long as its moist but I am not positive.

Thanks for any help,

Will

EDIT: I could also easily hang a T5 light above it if that would be a good idea.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

An LED might be better


Quote:
Originally Posted by brinkerh420 View Post
So I have a great idea that was inspired by Dusk Tropic's EpiWeb construction:

http://www.dusk.se/3220022524_cf8158ffb8_b.jpg

I want to essentially have a cool centerpiece in my kitchen. I have glass shelves on a wall with lights above it, and there is a 2 foot gap until the ceiling. This won't be a part of a viv, just a free standing pillar sitting in a tray of water.

Any ideas on this?

My steps to making this will be:

1) Carve a foam pillar (do you know where a common place is to get foam? Home Depot?)

2) Cover the pillar in Folius' Hygrolon sheet

3) Use the Dusk Tropic Moss Mix to paint a moss wall on the pillar

4) Use one of Josh's Frogs 64 oz. Containers to hold the water that will be wicked by the hygrolon hopefully

5) Maybe attach some Ficus Pumila Var. Minima cuttings on the pillar

All in all, do you guys think this will work? I know it's a big thing to try, but I figure that it's worth a shot.

One last thing: Will the moss and ficus grow without the humidity of a viv? I think that they would grow as long as its moist but I am not positive.

Thanks for any help,

Will

EDIT: I could also easily hang a T5 light above it if that would be a good idea.
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Old 02-21-2013, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Sounds Perfect! I can imagine that a lot better, less heat emission.
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Depending on how high you're planning your pillar to be be aware that Hygrolon will not wick the water to a great height (~12inches (max)). That picture you attached is using Epiweb with a drip wall pump. It is not hygrolon wicking the water up the pillar (I was not sure if you realized that). You would have to use a container at the top of the pillar so water can be wicked downward with the aid of gravity and Hygrolons ability to disperse water across its self. I think Your idea is great with some refinements. Here is a link to what Folius said about the water wicking height, scroll to the bottom. I have been thinking of doing something similar with a nepenthes but haven't worked out the details yet.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/par...echniques.html
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Thanks! That really helps out! I am thinking its gonna be around 16"? I know that at least 4" will be in the water.

That leaves around 12" that can wick water, correct?

I would make a drip wall, but I want a simpler tube that has no cords attatched.

Will
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Old 02-22-2013, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

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Originally Posted by brinkerh420 View Post
Thanks! That really helps out! I am thinking its gonna be around 16"? I know that at least 4" will be in the water.

That leaves around 12" that can wick water, correct?

I would make a drip wall, but I want a simpler tube that has no cords attatched.

Will
If you have the water container at the top of the pillar you could have the whole pillar covered with hygrolon. You could then have tabs running up and over edge into the container. the hygrolon would wick water over the top edge and gravity would pull it down over the whole pillar. This would work better than having the water drawn up.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:06 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Maybe this bad drawing will make more sense. The 12-13" is MAX. Folius said he was not sure it would do that adequately. And remember there would be a lot less water reaching the top. I have a feeling the water would reach the 12" mark but it would be very little and there would probably be a lot less moss growth. Having the water drawn from the top eliminates this problem as far as my brain has formulated.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

look at his site a bit better. he has some good examples. this is all i am writing. of course people on here think what the hell is he talking about.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

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Originally Posted by pa.walt View Post
look at his site a bit better. he has some good examples. this is all i am writing. of course people on here think what the hell is he talking about.
With that kind of reply I really am wondering that.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

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Originally Posted by pa.walt View Post
look at his site a bit better. he has some good examples. this is all i am writing. of course people on here think what the hell is he talking about.
I was confused with your reply as it seemed to allude to the fact the Dusk/epiweb site had hygrolon used in a similar application as discussed in this thread with a 12"+ vertical cylinder. I haven't seen this but if this Epiweb is the page you're referring to then it has great examples but no vertically oriented logs. The log on that page appears to be the same log used on the Folius site here Hygrolon › Folius Enterprises LLC If you scroll down you will see it. The log is oriented horizontally eliminating any problem with wicking water to a certain height. Which there may not be with under 12". Here are a few more links to pictures on the Dusk site. Epiweb
Google Translate None seem to have any applications of Hygrolon over what appears to be ~8" in height. Would you mind writing a bit more to show us otherwise or any other applications where it has been used to wick water to 12"?
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

I think that this thread is very useful--->

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/par...ump-build.html

Here is also some pictures of a similar set-up that has been running since August last year.



This picture shows the Hygrolon piece that works as a lid to seal light off from the water container. I just pour water through the Hygrolon mesh.



Once the water in the bottom tray get in contact with the lowest part of Hygrolon it will start wicking from there too.
Its somewhat of a double action effect. When the water inside the pipe and from above has run short the wicking action from the bottom tray takes over.

So if the water inside the pipe last 2 weeks the bottom water adds another week.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

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Originally Posted by eyeviper View Post
Maybe this bad drawing will make more sense. The 12-13" is MAX. Folius said he was not sure it would do that adequately. And remember there would be a lot less water reaching the top. I have a feeling the water would reach the 12" mark but it would be very little and there would probably be a lot less moss growth. Having the water drawn from the top eliminates this problem as far as my brain has formulated.
I was SO confused at first but now I completely get it. This is a great model, thanks for taking the time!

If I used it in this way, I figure that it could be a little taller and the hygrolon would slowly wick the water so that I could refill it every few days. I think this would be the best idea EVER! Thanks so much for the help.

One question though, seeing as though that drawing is my basic plan, how will the water dish be held? I guess I will have to figure that one out!

And another great Idea that just pooped into mind: In addition to using hygrolon strips to wick water, does anyone think that making some sort of liana to wick water would be a good idea? Then I could drape the liana down the side, although I am not sure if this would be enough contact to the cylinder to successfully get the water the the hygrolon.

I have some thinking to do!

UPDATE: Ordered from folius. One of the 40" square sheets and some moss mix.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitcholito View Post
I think that this thread is very useful--->

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/par...ump-build.html

Here is also some pictures of a similar set-up that has been running since August last year.



This picture shows the Hygrolon piece that works as a lid to seal light off from the water container. I just pour water through the Hygrolon mesh.



Once the water in the bottom tray get in contact with the lowest part of Hygrolon it will start wicking from there too.
Its somewhat of a double action effect. When the water inside the pipe and from above has run short the wicking action from the bottom tray takes over.

So if the water inside the pipe last 2 weeks the bottom water adds another week.
Well I guess that answers most of my questions!

What kind of pipe would you suggest that will hold water?

Maybe my best bet would to get some kind of pipe and the use great stuff foam to seal the bottom?

Ultimately, I have the gist of it. In the next few days, I will try my best to scout out the materials that I need. Next stop: Hydroponics store, I'll see if they have anything. Maybe I can pick up some hyDROTON there for the bottom reservoir?

Thanks SO much for the help, this idea is really going now.

Will
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

This is going to be cool, can't wait to see how it turns out! Subscribed
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Quote:
What kind of pipe would you suggest that will hold water?
You could use any tall water contaier. A glass vase, a PET bottle that you cut the upper part off etc.

Quote:
Maybe my best bet would to get some kind of pipe and the use great stuff foam to seal the bottom?
I dont thing great stuff will be water tight enough. Look at the link to the thread . I have shown one way to seal the bottom of the pipe there.

Good luck
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

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Originally Posted by mitcholito View Post
You could use any tall water contaier. A glass vase, a PET bottle that you cut the upper part off etc.



I dont thing great stuff will be water tight enough. Look at the link to the thread . I have shown one way to seal the bottom of the pipe there.

Good luck
Yes I looked at the thread and found that. I found a great container to use but it may be too wide. I'll see how it is when I get the material.

Any ideas on what to put around the pipe or tube? Maybe black silicone, although it would be difficult to spread it over the whole tube... I saw on the other thread that mitcholito put some mixture, but never caught exactly what that was.

Thanks for the help,

Will
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:49 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Glad that helped out. You could fill the tube with greatstuff and have a plastic container embedded in it inside the cylinder. Or your could watertight the whole cylinder and have the whole pipe full of water. As for the liana I would just have one end of it sticking into the water. You wont have any wetting problems then. I am excited to see how this comes out. Oh and as for the covering of the cylinder. you could use rustoleum paint and a little expanding pond foam or gs to give it some topography. Because you are not having it exposed to any animals the rustolium will not pose a problem. We use it on the sides of fish tanks all the time at the pet store I work for.
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Old 02-27-2013, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Update!!!

My folius shipment came and I received as follows:

1 sheet of hygrolon (Huge, will have tons left over!)

1 Medium Branch

1 moss mix order

The pic:

I found two containers to use, one larger and one smaller. I think I will use great stuff black foam to make a smoother surface!









Will

EDIT: Two questions -

1) Will the great stuff work to bond the two containers together and make a smooth surface?

2) Will the bottom container work in the bottom dish if I cut slits to let water in? And does the bottom dish even work in this situation?
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Last edited by brinkerh420; 02-27-2013 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by brinkerh420 View Post
EDIT: Two questions -

1) Will the great stuff work to bond the two containers together and make a smooth surface?

2) Will the bottom container work in the bottom dish if I cut slits to let water in? And does the bottom dish even work in this situation?
It's exciting to see your project! I have some information I hope you may find helpful.

1) Great Stuff (polyurethane) will not create a very strong bond to polyolefins (what your containers look to be made from). Your best bet would be to encase the entirety of the containers and use the containers as water holding vessels within a polyurethane structure.

2) You may not even need the bottom dish to hold water, depending on how you want to go about creating your cylinder. If you do opt to encase the containers in polyurethane, you will need to make sure that you create an opening through the polyurethane to the slits you cut into the bottom container. Perhaps as an alternative, you could stack the two containers as you proposed, and use the upper container as your water holding vessel with a Hygrolon wick to hydrate the Hygrolon on the cylinder. The bottom container could be filled with pebbles or something else weighty to keep the structure balanced - those plastic containers are rather light, and the polyurethane foam is also mostly air. You would now just need a dish to hold the cylinder and its accompanying moisture away from whatever surface you decide to put it on.

Please let me know if anything I've written is unclear.
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:39 AM
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Yes, those are some great points!

So I got a few cans of pond and foam great stuff, and I am thinking the following.

My intention may not have been clear, or maybe it was, either way I plan on both attaching the containers together AND THEN encasing the new pillar structure in a layer of foam. From this, the top container will hold the water that the hygrolon will wick and the bottom with just be there for elevation purposes. After I have carved this structure to my liking, I will use some sort of adhesive to the foam (maybe black silicone) an stick the hygrolon to the pillar using that.

I am planning on having a container on the bottom because 1) I think it would look a bit odd without any bottom dish, and 2) I am planning on putting this on thick glass that would potentially get water stains on it?

One question I have for anyone who has a suggestion is how I should make the top? In this build, I have decide to go for a cleaner look with smoother surfaces. I think the best thing I could do for a lid now is take a piece of cardboard after the pillar is made with the foam, and put cut a piece to match the top if the plastic container. From that point, I could probably just make a clean layer of foam on it and then maybe bead some silicone along the edge for a clean look. Does this sound good?

Folius, could you maybe explain your ideas of poking the hole in the foam to access the bottom container and havin pebbles in the bottom?

Sorry if I'm unclear in any way or misunderstood the last post, 8th grade science doesn't exactly teach you how to make a living cylindrical wall out of hygrolon

Thanks for the help,

Will
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Old 02-28-2013, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

This is such a cool idea! Really cool!
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by brinkerh420 View Post
Folius, could you maybe explain your ideas of poking the hole in the foam to access the bottom container and havin pebbles in the bottom?
The hole(s) in the foam would only be necessary if you went ahead with cutting slits in the bottom of the bottom piece.

I'm not sure how you intend to orient the containers before you adhere them together, but if you make the bottom container open upward, you would put in pebbles before attaching the upper container (which is assumed to also open upward to hold water). Conversely, you could orient them as you did in the photo, place the pebbles in the bottom container, then screw on its lid.

I do have a word of warning regarding trying to glue those containers together - you might find it a bit difficult. You have to use some specialized adhesives to bond polyolefins. 3M 72 or 3M 90 spray adhesives may do the trick.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

This is a pillar built by Planted Glass Boxes (https://www.facebook.com/plantedglas...ref=ts&fref=ts)

It's not out of Hygrolon. It operates via a drip feature vs wicking. I thought it could serve as some inspiration though for your build.

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Old 02-28-2013, 11:57 AM
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Thanks for the link! I already saw that, but it is a great model for inspiration.

Folius, would It be less complicated to use something like this?



It's bigger, but I figure it would work too and maybe better as well as adhering goes. It's a tin, how would It compare to the plastics? It's not as talk, but I could probably build off of that with the foam somehow.

Thanks for the responses,

Will
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

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Thanks for the link! I already saw that, but it is a great model for inspiration.

Folius, would It be less complicated to use something like this?



It's bigger, but I figure it would work too and maybe better as well as adhering goes. It's a tin, how would It compare to the plastics? It's not as talk, but I could probably build off of that with the foam somehow.

Thanks for the responses,

Will
I do not like this cylinder. I have a feeling over time it would rust around the edges. I think the original idea you had would work. use some sand paper to rough the surface and silicone them together then encase everything in GS. I dont think it will be going anywhere once encased. The silicone may not bond perfectly but it will do the tirck while you are using the GS...Just my 2 cent. Or get some of that spray adhesive. You couls also go get some PVC pipe.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

im liking this thread a whole lot!!! i was wondering what the medium sized branch looks like.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Where did you get the GS pond foam? all my local hardware stores are out/never had it/don't even know what I'm talking about.
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Old 02-28-2013, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Have you looked into a talk cylindrical glass vase? The dimensions would be perfect; GS and silicone would adhere well. Just couldn't let it fall on the floor. One could be ha for not to much at a crate and barrel or pier one type place.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:56 PM
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Sounds great!

I think the ultimate plan will be to sand the containers and then adhere them together with silicone and then encase them in black GS like eyeviper said. I think it would be a good idea in general to get the specialized adhesive but I think that since the whole thing will be encased in GS, it won't be going anywhere.

Frog Dude,
GS is in all of my Home Depots and Ace Hardwares, etc. I don't know why they wouldn't be near you!!!

Terraferma,
I love that I des but I essentially want it to be lightweight and I don't want to have to worry about it breaking, etc. Glass to me just makes it more difficult to work with.

Whitethumb,
Thanks so much, let me know if you have any more suggestions!!!

Will

Edit: I will be using the original containers, not the metal one, as eyeviper said, it will probably eventually rust, etc.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

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Originally Posted by eyeviper View Post
Depending on how high you're planning your pillar to be be aware that Hygrolon will not wick the water to a great height (~12inches (max)). That picture you attached is using Epiweb with a drip wall pump. It is not hygrolon wicking the water up the pillar (I was not sure if you realized that). You would have to use a container at the top of the pillar so water can be wicked downward with the aid of gravity and Hygrolons ability to disperse water across its self. I think Your idea is great with some refinements. Here is a link to what Folius said about the water wicking height, scroll to the bottom. I have been thinking of doing something similar with a nepenthes but haven't worked out the details yet.
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/par...echniques.html
a plugged up clay pot might be a good way to administer water from the top, since the intended shape is a cylinder
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Old 03-03-2013, 12:21 AM
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Update:

Made the cylinder today.

Don't have pics of the beginning of the process, but I sanded both containers then silicones them together, then encased the whole container in Great Stuff





I am waiting until tomorrow morning to carve into a good shape!

It's looking great so far, especially the top reservoir!

Thanks,

Will
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Looks really good Will! =)

If its possible to shape it slightly conical (wider at the base) it will be easier to illuminate.

Also be careful not to press the Hygrolon down to much in whatever glue you will use. You only want the bottom layer of Hygrolon to attach.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitcholito View Post
Looks really good Will! =)

If its possible to shape it slightly conical (wider at the base) it will be easier to illuminate.

Also be careful not to press the Hygrolon down to much in whatever glue you will use. You only want the bottom layer of Hygrolon to attach.
Yes, my plan is to shape is slightly conical if I can.

Will two rings of silicone, one around the base, and one near the top,work well enough to keep the hygrolon attached to the pillar?

Thanks,

Will
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

I don't think that will be enough silicone. From reading others experience with it the silicone was not a very good medium to secure it. People used pins, floristry wire, or paperclips bent in U-shapes to secure it. I think it would be baggy looking if you just used 2 beads of silicone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinkerh420 View Post
Yes, my plan is to shape is slightly conical if I can.

Will two rings of silicone, one around the base, and one near the top,work well enough to keep the hygrolon attached to the pillar?

Thanks,

Will
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
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I don't think that will be enough silicone. From reading others experience with it the silicone was not a very good medium to secure it. People used pins, floristry wire, or paperclips bent in U-shapes to secure it. I think it would be baggy looking if you just used 2 beads of silicone.
Alright, maybe I should just make rings of silicone wrap around the cylinder and then it should be secured.

Will
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

I was talking to Dev from Folius and he mentioned using adhesive that gets a thin film like gorilla glue and after getting slight tacky then lay the hygrolon over it and it will adhere pretty well.
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:45 PM
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I was talking to Dev from Folius and he mentioned using adhesive that gets a thin film like gorilla glue and after getting slight tacky then lay the hygrolon over it and it will adhere pretty well.
I could run out and get some gorilla glue, Do you think they will be a large difference from the gorilla glue to the silicone?

If so. What kind?

Thanks,

Will
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by therizman2 View Post
I was talking to Dev from Folius and he mentioned using adhesive that gets a thin film like gorilla glue and after getting slight tacky then lay the hygrolon over it and it will adhere pretty well.
I could run out and get some gorilla glue, Do you think they will be a large difference from the gorilla glue to the silicone?

If so. What kind?

Thanks,

Will
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by brinkerh420 View Post
anywhere.

Frog Dude,
GS is in all of my Home Depots and Ace Hardwares, etc. I don't know why they wouldn't be near you!!!
Maybe it's because I live in Wyoming. I, who lived in Los Angeles for pretty much my whole life, sometimes feel like I've dropped of the edge off the world at times. With Cheyenne's population around 60,000, thats a big leap from the 10,000,000 that is somewhere around L.A.'s population. I like it hear tho. People are nice.

Thread rant finished. Carry on.

P.S. it looks great so far!
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Hygrolon Cylindrical Build

Nice work, can't wait to see the next few steps.
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