Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer - Dendroboard
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View Poll Results: What do you use for your floor construction?
False bottom WITH drainage (hydroton) layer 28 23.53%
False bottom with just substrate on top. 55 46.22%
No false bottom, just hydroton or other misc item 34 28.57%
magnets 2 1.68%
Voters: 119. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-21-2012, 06:37 PM
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Default Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

So? Ive read that some people do False bottom, drainage layer( gravel or hydroton) then substrate. Some are doing False bottom- substrate.

What do you do?

Last edited by paintballislife; 05-21-2012 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

False bottom (eggcrate) with LECA (hydroton) I never heard of. It is one or the other. Wanna post examples of people doing that?
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

Eggcrate FB with substrate on top. No need for leca if using eggcrate as a FB
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

Magnets?

What is the no false bottom, just hydroton option? They hydroton is the false bottom
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

technically i wouldn't call hydroton a false bottom since its actually a layer that's in contact with the bottom of the tank. It's a drainage layer that people use as the bottom layer. =) A false bottom implies that there is empty space under it

Personally if you are able to, i think eggcrate FB with a bulkhead underneath for a drain is the best way to go if it works for your setup
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

I use hydroton or feather-lite, screen, then a thin layer of turface to weigh down the screen (especially around the edges), then the substrate. Works well and haven't had any problems with wicking/overly-wet substrate. I used to use eggcrate, screen, then substrate, never had any problems with sub falling through but it wasnt the most attractive option.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldnstream View Post
I use hydroton or feather-lite, screen, then a thin layer of turface to weigh down the screen (especially around the edges), then the substrate. Works well and haven't had any problems with wicking/overly-wet substrate. I used to use eggcrate, screen, then substrate, never had any problems with sub falling through but it wasnt the most attractive option.
i assume you are referring to being able to see the eggcrate from the sides of the tank? All you do is make your eggcrate like a half an inch short on the sides and front and you fill in between the eggcrate and glass with rocks.

Here's a little 10 gallon i did with an eggcrate FB that you can't see at all

http://s1127.photobucket.com/albums/...1-16-14-36.mp4
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

What do you do with magnets?
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:55 PM
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I've become a big fan of the pond filter media, screen turface, abg. I hate messing with egg crate. Im not very crafty.


Sean
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Old 05-22-2012, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

heyduke, could you expand on your method of pond filter media? I saw another post metioning it but they didn't expand on it. Thanks!!
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:44 AM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

Magnets were a joke guys. Sorry.
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Old 05-22-2012, 01:54 AM
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Stole the idea from Shawn H. He posted about it years ago, possibly in the same thread, but here most recently.

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/mem...update-46.html

It's light weight, drains great, easy to work with, and doesn't seem to wick water. I love it.


Sean
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:02 AM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

I'm getting away from "false bottom" tanks, but I've always used eggcrate on top of 3/4 PVC spacers. Then the mesh (cross stich material?). On top of that I put about 1/2" of LECA. Then I put my soil mix directly on the leca. But I don't like to put my soil mix directly on the mesh or eggcrate cause I don't feel it drains as well without the LECA layer. But, I dont like dealing with a gallon or two of water in the bottom of the viv. So instead of false bottoms, I'm using the European method, a slanted glass false bottom that drains to the front "resevoir" of the tank.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:19 AM
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Eggcrate and ziptie false bottom, fiberglass screen attached with extra small zipties, a layer of turface on top of the screen, substrate on the turface. By adding layers of eggcrate I can landscape as well.
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Old 05-22-2012, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Teezy View Post
i assume you are referring to being able to see the eggcrate from the sides of the tank? All you do is make your eggcrate like a half an inch short on the sides and front and you fill in between the eggcrate and glass with rocks.

Here's a little 10 gallon i did with an eggcrate FB that you can't see at all

10 gallon vertical :: video-2012-05-21-16-14-36.mp4 video by josht25 - Photobucket
Yeah I've done that too...here's a 29 I set up that way about a year ago:

I think the main reason I prefer hydroton or feather-lite is that it is easier to create contours and it seems that spring production is higher in hydroton tanks...at least for me. I have plenty of tanks set up both way, both ways work, guess it really boils down to personal preference.

Side Note: Thanks for the link, tank looks cool....but leucs in a vert?
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Old 06-05-2012, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

how would magnets work in a vivarium???
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Old 06-05-2012, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

I use eggcrate false bottom covered in screen, turface, then substrate and leaf litter has worked great and the drainage is excellent.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:51 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judy S View Post
how would magnets work in a vivarium???
I'm a gullible idiot...
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

You should use a drainage layer.

Without gravel or hydroton(clay) you will not get the biological filtration necessary to help maintain the water quality.

Everyone expresses the desire for drainage layer to keep the soil from becoming water logged, but do not mention or realize the additional benefits of it.

Eggcrate is used to stop water seeping into the soil, but it doesnt do much for the filtration & water quality.

By only using a falsebottom, the water just passes thru, and besides passing thru the soil, theres nothing there to buffer or remove the nitrates/nitrites ... ect (other than the plants if theyve rooted thru the eggcrate)
Therefore, if youre using a powerhead and ur just reusing that "bad" water over and over, collecting more and more of the waste products, potentially exposing your frogs to higher risk of pathogens over time.

Whereas, when using a drainage layer, you give beneficial bacteria surface area to cultivate on/in. If you have biological filtration in addition to the plants, youre greatly reducing the biproducts of waste in the water.

Coming from the fish hobby, biological filtration is a must and im a big advocate of it and its benefits in an aquatic /semi aquatic enviroment. It can only help to improve the water quality, therefore improving the enviroment/habitat of the frogs.

Comments?

Nick
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

from the way you are describing things...you seem to be suggesting a drainage area, separated by something like the fiberglass screening...and somehow having a method of drawing the drainage water up and away into a pump for recirculation...is this your suggestion??? I can see your point about the bacteria...and hydroton is probably not the best for "good" bacteria...but the featherlite rock sold by Black Jungle is a great alternative. So please describe how you are suggesting this system...
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

I believe he is simply stating that a drainage layer(for example, hydroton or featherlite) is a very good thing to have as a biological filter.

Without the drainage layer the water simply falls through the substrate into an empty void of space(the false bottom). The drainage layer(hyrdroton or featherlite) fills that void with more "surface area" for the water to pass through and filters the water and allows beneficial bacteria to grow. Similiar to the layers of filter media that you'd find in an aquarium filter.

My apologies if I didn't state this correctly to Gamble's original intention.

-Chris
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPccusa View Post
False bottom (eggcrate) with LECA (hydroton) I never heard of. It is one or the other. Wanna post examples of people doing that?
Strangely enough, I just found myself doing this on a build; a layer of hydroton with just a "plate" of screen wrapped eggcrate over it (no box). I'll be using a turface based substrate, and I didn't want the hydroton to wick directly up through the turface (turface stays plenty wet enough in my builds), but I also didn't want to hassle with cutting a bunch of PVC supports, building a box, and then trying to maneuver it into place with a background that would have made it difficult. I could have used most anything inert to hold the plate up, but went with hydroton because of the (relatively) uniform size, and because I had a bag of it handy...
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitcolebay View Post
I believe he is simply stating that a drainage layer(for example, hydroton or featherlite) is a very good thing to have as a biological filter.

Without the drainage layer the water simply falls through the substrate into an empty void of space(the false bottom). The drainage layer(hyrdroton or featherlite) fills that void with more "surface area" for the water to pass through and filters the water and allows beneficial bacteria to grow. Similiar to the layers of filter media that you'd find in an aquarium filter.

My apologies if I didn't state this correctly to Gamble's original intention.

-Chris
EXACTLY. You summarized it perfectly.

To Answer Judys Question:

To a degree ... Yes.
You have your drainage layer, then screen (or eggcrate), then your soil, sphagnum, sheet moss (or whatever is your substrate of choice) and then your leaf litter/plants. All of this together provides different layers/grades of filtration, with the drainage layer being the most important.

If you choose to use a pump to recirculate the water (waterfall/stream), u bury that in your drainage layer. (If not using one, then you obviously need a way to remove the excess water as it builds up)
I then empty/drain that water every 2 weeks or so/as needed and replenish it with fresh distilled water.

Point being as Chris explained, you simply want something filling up that void rather than an empty space to keep the water "healthier" in between water changes,(just like an aquarium), whether it be hydroton, featherlite, gravel ... etc.
Its far better to have this biological filtration than not.

And to also specify, as far as i understand it, hydroton IS pourous to a small degree which is ideal for beneficial bacteria to florish.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Nick
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

By only using a falsebottom, the water just passes thru, and besides passing thru the soil, theres nothing there to buffer or remove the nitrates/nitrites ... ect (other than the plants if theyve rooted thru the eggcrate)
Therefore, if youre using a powerhead and ur just reusing that "bad" water over and over, collecting more and more of the waste products, potentially exposing your frogs to higher risk of pathogens over time.

This is where it got confusing...I certainly understand the purpose of allowing good bacteria to clean what it can of the pollutants...and that it would bioaccumulate, making the vivarium over time worse for the inhabitants. You are suggesting that the water from the drainage layer is going to be going through a powerhead...filtered somewhere along the cycle along with the more "natural" biological effect of Featherlite... Did I restate my question in a way that explains why the post was just a little confusing???

Last edited by Judy S; 06-09-2012 at 08:06 PM. Reason: The first paragraph was supposed to be a quote from the original
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Poll: False bottom with or without drainage layer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judy S View Post
By only using a falsebottom, the water just passes thru, and besides passing thru the soil, theres nothing there to buffer or remove the nitrates/nitrites ... ect (other than the plants if theyve rooted thru the eggcrate)
Therefore, if youre using a powerhead and ur just reusing that "bad" water over and over, collecting more and more of the waste products, potentially exposing your frogs to higher risk of pathogens over time.

This is where it got confusing...I certainly understand the purpose of allowing good bacteria to clean what it can of the pollutants...and that it would bioaccumulate, making the vivarium over time worse for the inhabitants. You are suggesting that the water from the drainage layer is going to be going through a powerhead...filtered somewhere along the cycle along with the more "natural" biological effect of Featherlite... Did I restate my question in a way that explains why the post was just a little confusing???
Its ok, I understand.
Yes basically the water will be filtered thru the drainage layer as it passes thru to the powerhead. (You could even use aquarium gravel, but most dont bc of its added weight in the viv)
I hope i explained it better this time around!
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