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Old 05-14-2009, 03:34 PM
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Default Ventilation In Fish Tanks (or lack of)

Hi All,

Firstly, I must say, This is a great community. You can clearly see you have a passion for what you do/keep. I have been watching from the line for almost a year now. Im from Scotland, And i think theres only a handful of Dendro keepers (quite literally). I won't be in Scotland for a long time, As I will be moving to Saudi Arabia in september/October. The tank/frogs will be going to a friend. I have just sold all my snakes, I kept and bred Lampropeltis (Milksnakes and Kingsnakes) and had to sell all of them. This will be a little project to keep me busy until the move. The friend I will be giving them to keeps Reptiles and Amphibs also, So I won't just be throwing it at her.

Now to the questions.

I'm in two minds, Either set-up the 4x2x2 and go for a nice impressive display or come down to a 3x2x2. Im going for such a large size as I want to focus on plants. I am planning on keeping Leucs in there once it's all ready to go. Unsure of numbers as of yet, Any ideas?

The tanks are pretty much glass boxes. They don't have lids so would have to sort something out that way. I've read ventilation in Fish tanks is insuffiecent, As theres no fresh air getting in, just stagnant getting out from the top. What would be the best way of going about this? Drill the tanks on each end and put 70mm Circleur Vents, one on each side. And say a 1.1 ration of mesh topping ontop.

Any ideas/opinions/pointers are hugely appreciated. Also, could you keep brands to a low, As I've had problems trying to acquire certain american products.

Kind Regards,

Scott M
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Old 05-14-2009, 05:56 PM
 
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Default Re: Ventilation In Fish Tanks (or lack of)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltos View Post
Hi All,

Firstly, I must say, This is a great community. You can clearly see you have a passion for what you do/keep. I have been watching from the line for almost a year now. Im from Scotland, And i think theres only a handful of Dendro keepers (quite literally). I won't be in Scotland for a long time, As I will be moving to Saudi Arabia in september/October. The tank/frogs will be going to a friend. I have just sold all my snakes, I kept and bred Lampropeltis (Milksnakes and Kingsnakes) and had to sell all of them. This will be a little project to keep me busy until the move. The friend I will be giving them to keeps Reptiles and Amphibs also, So I won't just be throwing it at her.

Now to the questions.

I'm in two minds, Either set-up the 4x2x2 and go for a nice impressive display or come down to a 3x2x2. Im going for such a large size as I want to focus on plants. I am planning on keeping Leucs in there once it's all ready to go. Unsure of numbers as of yet, Any ideas?

The tanks are pretty much glass boxes. They don't have lids so would have to sort something out that way. I've read ventilation in Fish tanks is insuffiecent, As theres no fresh air getting in, just stagnant getting out from the top. What would be the best way of going about this? Drill the tanks on each end and put 70mm Circleur Vents, one on each side. And say a 1.1 ration of mesh topping ontop.

Any ideas/opinions/pointers are hugely appreciated. Also, could you keep brands to a low, As I've had problems trying to acquire certain american products.

Kind Regards,

Scott M
Let me first say up front that I base all statements on personal experience. I am no scientist either, but it seems to me if "stagnant" air is leaving the tank something is replacing it.

To take a step back I have to admit that I am not sure what "stagnant" air is. I have read a lot of posts like yours and wondered if stagnant air is air with a low ratio of oxygen to hydrogen but I don't think that is it.

My guess is that people are describing a lack of air movement. If this is the case it would make sense to me that some plants would do better with air movement so they stay drier. It may also be that people ventilate the tanks so the glass does not get covered with condensation (I am building something for that reason right now).

All I can offer for concrete input is that I have a 50gal viv with constant 99% humidity and the plants are doing well, in fact they are thriving. All plants were selected because they require high humidity and low or medium light.

With all that said, I would never drill a hole in the glass unless I really had to. If you like I will be happy to send you pictures of what I am building (idea borrowed from this forum).

I will be anxious to read more input on this subject.

Rob

Last edited by Uncaonce; 05-14-2009 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: Ventilation In Fish Tanks (or lack of)

Uncaonce put it very well...

You dont really need to worry about air movement with many of the species used in terraria, they all do very well in high humidity enviroments.

The only plants that you might have trouble with are tillandsias and some types of orchids, even so these can still be grown in the basic terrarium, if you place them in the drier parts of the tank ie up at the top where things are a bit drier due to the lights...

I am still setting up my first tank, so none of this is from personal experience...

But just take a look around on here and youll see that most of the tanks are very simple in design, and nothing more than a "glass box" and in which the plants thrive and look absolutely stunning...

All im going to do is drill a line of 5mm holes spaced around 1inch or so apart at the front of the lid to keep the front glass condensation free and all shall be swell...

PM me with where you are located in scotland if you like and we could come to some arrangement about combing plant orders and such in the future as im going to be ordering alot soon enough, might save you some pennies....

Richie
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Ventilation In Fish Tanks (or lack of)

I think that people often think their frogs will suffocate, but this doesn't seem realistic considering the minute amount of oxygen such a small animal uses and the fact that most plants produce more than enough oxygen to suit the frogs needs. I think it's a lot better to have little or no ventilation, personal opinion.
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Old 05-14-2009, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: Ventilation In Fish Tanks (or lack of)

Since your tanks don't come with lids you're in a unique situation since you can build a lid to suit. I'd build it short front to back and make a 1-2 inch screen that goes the width of the tank and glue it in at the front. That should provide plenty of room for gas exchange. If you really wanted to kick the airflow up a notch install a fan or two in the canopy to blow through the screen. This will de-condesate your front glass as well. This is what I've done in the past. hth
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Old 05-14-2009, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Ventilation In Fish Tanks (or lack of)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncaonce View Post
Let me first say up front that I base all statements on personal experience. I am no scientist either, but it seems to me if "stagnant" air is leaving the tank something is replacing it.

To take a step back I have to admit that I am not sure what "stagnant" air is. I have read a lot of posts like yours and wondered if stagnant air is air with a low ratio of oxygen to hydrogen but I don't think that is it.

My guess is that people are describing a lack of air movement. If this is the case it would make sense to me that some plants would do better with air movement so they stay drier. It may also be that people ventilate the tanks so the glass does not get covered with condensation (I am building something for that reason right now).

All I can offer for concrete input is that I have a 50gal viv with constant 99% humidity and the plants are doing well, in fact they are thriving. All plants were selected because they require high humidity and low or medium light.

With all that said, I would never drill a hole in the glass unless I really had to. If you like I will be happy to send you pictures of what I am building (idea borrowed from this forum).

I will be anxious to read more input on this subject.

Rob
Thanks for your input Rob, I assumed the ventilation wouldn't be sufficient for the frogs to be honest. Reading the rest of the replies, I hold my hands up having been corrected. Having kept several species of Chameleon, I have always had the problem with High humidity and good ventilation. I think thats where the possible problem arised. Well now I know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R1ch13 View Post
Uncaonce put it very well...

You dont really need to worry about air movement with many of the species used in terraria, they all do very well in high humidity enviroments.

The only plants that you might have trouble with are tillandsias and some types of orchids, even so these can still be grown in the basic terrarium, if you place them in the drier parts of the tank ie up at the top where things are a bit drier due to the lights...

I am still setting up my first tank, so none of this is from personal experience...

But just take a look around on here and youll see that most of the tanks are very simple in design, and nothing more than a "glass box" and in which the plants thrive and look absolutely stunning...

All im going to do is drill a line of 5mm holes spaced around 1inch or so apart at the front of the lid to keep the front glass condensation free and all shall be swell...

PM me with where you are located in scotland if you like and we could come to some arrangement about combing plant orders and such in the future as im going to be ordering alot soon enough, might save you some pennies....

Richie
Hi Richie, Im located in Fife. St Andrews way, Not close enough to save money im afraid. I'd do anything to save a good few websites. I may be contacted you in the future, Probably for suitable products, Expandable Foam's, Sealent's, Shops to purchase from. It's a pain when we can't get the same products as the majority here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobberly1 View Post
I think that people often think their frogs will suffocate, but this doesn't seem realistic considering the minute amount of oxygen such a small animal uses and the fact that most plants produce more than enough oxygen to suit the frogs needs. I think it's a lot better to have little or no ventilation, personal opinion.
Fair play Bob, As said above, I presumed they would be the same as Chameleons, Obviously Im wrong. I'll do some more research into plants basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClintonJ View Post
Since your tanks don't come with lids you're in a unique situation since you can build a lid to suit. I'd build it short front to back and make a 1-2 inch screen that goes the width of the tank and glue it in at the front. That should provide plenty of room for gas exchange. If you really wanted to kick the airflow up a notch install a fan or two in the canopy to blow through the screen. This will de-condesate your front glass as well. This is what I've done in the past. hth
Thanks Clinton, Thats given me a great Idea. What's a good material to make the lid from? I work in an aquatics store, So im quite lucky interms of equipment/products etc.

Kind Regards,

Scott
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Old 06-16-2009, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: Ventilation In Fish Tanks (or lack of)

You need to get some pictures up scott ,when you get back from hollidays going through the setting up process or somthing??
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: Ventilation In Fish Tanks (or lack of)

I think that you're spot on about your chams needing lots of air circulation but you need not worry about that with your frogs . It's been said by many on this board that more than enough air is exchanged when you open your viv to feed. If you'd like to read more opinions on the subject look here:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/par...tion-poll.html

After reading that thread I decided that going out of my way to make vents was a bit contradictory to my goal of high humidity :P. You'll also see that many people opted to seal their vivariums and use internal air circulation to get the "best of both worlds" so to speak.... Good luck!
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