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Old 05-11-2020, 03:43 PM
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Default Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

When I was bout to leave for Lowe’s to buy the materials to make a vent for a future Ranitomeya build I realized the lid that came with the tank would already work because it was in the form of two pieces one large and small. Using the small one is perfect for a vent as seen in the picture but now there is a 5/8” gap between the glass (the glass was left over) and the vent. Was thinking of using caulk saver and gluing it together. Does anyone have any idea of what to use to fill it?



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Old 05-11-2020, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

I can't tell exactly what I'm looking at with regards to front/top/back. And what is the lid and framing material?

Does that lid somehow lock into the frame? If not, you could bring it down a hair and split the difference. So you'd have 2x ~1/4" gaps to deal with. Silicone could cover that span (assuming the surfaces are compatible with silicone).

If it were me, I would probably ditch that chunky looking lid and cover the entire gap with mesh for more ventilation and less opaque obstruction.
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

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I can't tell exactly what I'm looking at with regards to front/top/back. And what is the lid and framing material?

Does that lid somehow lock into the frame? If not, you could bring it down a hair and split the difference. So you'd have 2x ~1/4" gaps to deal with. Silicone could cover that span (assuming the surfaces are compatible with silicone).

If it were me, I would probably ditch that chunky looking lid and cover the entire gap with mesh for more ventilation and less opaque obstruction.

The screen is the back of the tank. The lid and frame are plastic the mesh originally came with the tank. It is a zilla 12x12x18 I had laying around. The screen part does lock into place. Like you said about getting rid of it and just making it all mesh, do you think that would be to much ventilation for a 12x12x18? If I was to do that it would be about 3-4 inches of mesh. This tank will be setup to a mistking with one nozzle. And sprayed 10 sec at morning and night and 5 sec in between.

Thank you for the quick response!


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Old 05-11-2020, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

Gotcha. The trouble is trying to get anything to attach to plastic. Silicone won't stick to it properly.

Since I don't have a lot of technical skill, I would probably cover the entire 3-4 inches with mesh, and I would cut the mesh large enough to go over the framing so I could silicone it to the glass. Cheap, easy, effective.

If it turns out to be too much ventilation, I would cover part of it from the outside with clear packing tape. I have done this to new vivs before, as they seem to get wetter as they get older (more plants and wettable surfaces). Then I remove the tape when the tank is more mature.
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

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Originally Posted by Broseph View Post
Gotcha. The trouble is trying to get anything to attach to plastic. Silicone won't stick to it properly.

Since I don't have a lot of technical skill, I would probably cover the entire 3-4 inches with mesh, and I would cut the mesh large enough to go over the framing so I could silicone it to the glass. Cheap, easy, effective.

If it turns out to be too much ventilation, I would cover part of it from the outside with clear packing tape. I have done this to new vivs before, as they seem to get wetter as they get older (more plants and wettable surfaces). Then I remove the tape when the tank is more mature.

Thank you just saved me some money lol, will do.


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Old 05-11-2020, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

Living hinge it, but thicker, so it's not a hinge. This will be a living hinge formed of 100% silicone.

1) You need a temporary bottom to that gap, to control the bottom of the silicone. Using masking tape to tape a piece of waxed paper to the bottom of your lid, and the bottom of the screen frame.
When you look at it from the top, down, you should now see waxed paper completely blocking the bottom of the gap. Waxed paper peels off silicone pretty easily. I would not try any substitution. It would be a good idea to now run a piece of masking tape under the waxed paper, simply to strengthen it. When we apply silicone, we don't want to tear through the masking tape.

2) You want the top to look nice. Use a single strip of masking tape. run it approximately 1/8" to 1/4" away from the gap's edge, all along the glass. Repeat the same process along the edge of the screen, BUT, you don't need or want the tape 1/8 to 1/4" away from the edge. Run the tape right up against the edge of the screen.
Looking at it now, you should see two strips of tape protecting the glass and the screen, from messy silicone, and the waxed paper stopping the silicone from underneath.

3) Working quickly, fill in the entire protected gap with silicone. Quickly use an old credit card to smooth out the top of the silicone. Try to keep the silicone thin right where it meets the tape for the cleanest look, and for easy removal of the tape.

4) Immediately, while the silicone is still very wet and workable, peel the tape off the glass, and off of the screen. It should now have crisp clean edges to your living hinge.

5) Let it dry, but not cure. Peel the waxed paper and tape off of the bottom when you are sure the silicone is dry all the way to the bottom. Waiting until it's fully cured may make peeling it away harder to do.

If you worked quickly through the silicone parts, it should look crisp, clean, and beautiful. I would use clear or black silicone for the best match.

Technically, silicone forms a very poor bond with most plastics. In this case, who cares? I doesn't matter a bit if the silicone actually bonds to your plastic or not. It's bonded to the glass, and therefor going nowhere.

This is little more work, yes, but it will perfectly fill that gap and look very good. It will absolutely be 100% fly proof.
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Last edited by Pumilo; 05-11-2020 at 05:06 PM. Reason: wording
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Old 05-11-2020, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

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Originally Posted by Bmoli15 View Post
Like you said about getting rid of it and just making it all mesh, do you think that would be to much ventilation for a 12x12x18? If I was to do that it would be about 3-4 inches of mesh. This tank will be setup to a mistking with one nozzle. And sprayed 10 sec at morning and night and 5 sec in between.
I've been running my six 12 x 12 x 18 vivs half mesh, half poorly fitting acrylic inserts with good results (ambient humidity is 40%). Misting is ~20 sec total each morning.
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Old 05-11-2020, 06:40 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumilo View Post
Living hinge it, but thicker, so it's not a hinge. This will be a living hinge formed of 100% silicone.

1) You need a temporary bottom to that gap, to control the bottom of the silicone. Using masking tape to tape a piece of waxed paper to the bottom of your lid, and the bottom of the screen frame.
When you look at it from the top, down, you should now see waxed paper completely blocking the bottom of the gap. Waxed paper peels off silicone pretty easily. I would not try any substitution. It would be a good idea to now run a piece of masking tape under the waxed paper, simply to strengthen it. When we apply silicone, we don't want to tear through the masking tape.

2) You want the top to look nice. Use a single strip of masking tape. run it approximately 1/8" to 1/4" away from the gap's edge, all along the glass. Repeat the same process along the edge of the screen, BUT, you don't need or want the tape 1/8 to 1/4" away from the edge. Run the tape right up against the edge of the screen.
Looking at it now, you should see two strips of tape protecting the glass and the screen, from messy silicone, and the waxed paper stopping the silicone from underneath.

3) Working quickly, fill in the entire protected gap with silicone. Quickly use an old credit card to smooth out the top of the silicone. Try to keep the silicone thin right where it meets the tape for the cleanest look, and for easy removal of the tape.

4) Immediately, while the silicone is still very wet and workable, peel the tape off the glass, and off of the screen. It should now have crisp clean edges to your living hinge.

5) Let it dry, but not cure. Peel the waxed paper and tape off of the bottom when you are sure the silicone is dry all the way to the bottom. Waiting until it's fully cured may make peeling it away harder to do.

If you worked quickly through the silicone parts, it should look crisp, clean, and beautiful. I would use clear or black silicone for the best match.

Technically, silicone forms a very poor bond with most plastics. In this case, who cares? I doesn't matter a bit if the silicone actually bonds to your plastic or not. It's bonded to the glass, and therefor going nowhere.

This is little more work, yes, but it will perfectly fill that gap and look very good. It will absolutely be 100% fly proof.
I am on my way home to attempt this lol, thank you very much for the detailed instructions!!!



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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmoli15 View Post
Like you said about getting rid of it and just making it all mesh, do you think that would be to much ventilation for a 12x12x18? If I was to do that it would be about 3-4 inches of mesh. This tank will be setup to a mistking with one nozzle. And sprayed 10 sec at morning and night and 5 sec in between.
I've been running my six 12 x 12 x 18 vivs half mesh, half poorly fitting acrylic inserts with good results (ambient humidity is 40%). Misting is ~20 sec total each morning.
This will be my first time with Ranitomeya so I may be wrong but shouldn’t they be housed around 80-100%?
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Old 05-11-2020, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

Thank you pumilo! Now it’s not perfect and I blame that on me since I used parchment paper since I didn’t have wax but it got the job done and looks pretty good to me thank you again!


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Old 05-11-2020, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass






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Old 05-12-2020, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

Looks good, and you know that's totally fly proof!

Who told you 80 to 100% humidity? No, don't tell me. I don't think I even want to know who is over 10 years behind the times. I'm going to guess it was a local shop? Please don't purchase your frogs from that person/shop. They are not current on basic frogkeeping skills. 80 to 100% humidity can lead to skin and respiratory infections. If they are still doing that, I would seriously want to take a closer look at how they are supplementing their frogs with vitamins. They said RepCal and Herptivite, didn't they? (heavy sigh).

So glad you stopped by. You should be aiming for a humidity level more in the 70 to 80% range. The only time it should hit 90% is right after a misting cycle.
Misting at night, or even within 2 or 3 hours of lights out, can be a mistake. You want to roots, not the leaves. Leaves of plants don't want standing water for long periods of time. Especially in closed in boxes with little air circulation. It can cause spotting on the leaves, mold and mildew, which leads to a quick "melting" death of plants and leaves. Personally, 4 hours before
70% humidity is your sweet spot. In their natural environments, humidity levels have been measured as low as 60%. Your frogs will be healthier and live longer. Your plants health will improve, and you swing open the barn doors of the types of plants you can now keep. Even the smell of your vivarium will sweeten, changing from stale and...unpleasant, to forest fresh.

Passive ventilation is your friend.

A small, internal, circulation fan, would be the next, optional step in optimizing your vivarium for rare plant growth, and overall plant health.
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Old 05-12-2020, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

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Originally Posted by Bmoli15 View Post
This will be my first time with Ranitomeya so I may be wrong but shouldn’t they be housed around 80-100%?
This is not at all intended to be a jab at you personally (really ), but I do wish we could figure out how to dispense with the RH % numbers.

Not only do hygrometers fail, but they're not very accurate to start with. So, if the hygrometer reads 40% but the frogs are swimming and there are 34 species of fungus in the viv making growling noises during the night, should I increase misting? When do I assume the hygrometer is leading me astray?

Also, RH doesn't really tell you how wet a viv is, since the RH is dependent on amount of ventilation, RH of introduced air, air temp, and whether the viv is being heated from below; the viv could be absolutely sopping wet and have an RH of 50% if it is running Wisconsin winter air (<20% RH) in with a fan. The viv could have 80% RH but be frighteningly dry if heated from below, with minimal ventilation, in a cool damp room.

A hygrometer also doesn't tell you what the RH is where the frogs live -- e.g. under the leaf litter, inside cork rounds, under plants; it approaches 100% there all the time, I suppose. If RH is crazy high in the open air, too (where the frogs cannot actually get to anyway since they are only 1/2" tall and have no hang gliders), the frogs have no where to go to 'dry off' -- it is 100% RH or the highway.

I only recently put a hygrometer in one of my thumb vivs for a day (a more or less accurate one: I own a dozen hygrometers -- two brands, four different models -- so I can tell when one has jumped the rails), and found that my practices have humidity up into the 90s after misting in the morning, then dropping to ~70% by the end of the day. All my frogs seem to have normal activity levels throughout the day -- i.e. most come out/call after misting, and also periodically throughout the day, and there is often an inter-viv shouting match right around lights out.
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Old 05-12-2020, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

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Originally Posted by Pumilo View Post
Looks good, and you know that's totally fly proof!

Who told you 80 to 100% humidity? No, don't tell me. I don't think I even want to know who is over 10 years behind the times. I'm going to guess it was a local shop? Please don't purchase your frogs from that person/shop. They are not current on basic frogkeeping skills. 80 to 100% humidity can lead to skin and respiratory infections. If they are still doing that, I would seriously want to take a closer look at how they are supplementing their frogs with vitamins. They said RepCal and Herptivite, didn't they? (heavy sigh).

So glad you stopped by. You should be aiming for a humidity level more in the 70 to 80% range. The only time it should hit 90% is right after a misting cycle.
Misting at night, or even within 2 or 3 hours of lights out, can be a mistake. You want to roots, not the leaves. Leaves of plants don't want standing water for long periods of time. Especially in closed in boxes with little air circulation. It can cause spotting on the leaves, mold and mildew, which leads to a quick "melting" death of plants and leaves. Personally, 4 hours before
70% humidity is your sweet spot. In their natural environments, humidity levels have been measured as low as 60%. Your frogs will be healthier and live longer. Your plants health will improve, and you swing open the barn doors of the types of plants you can now keep. Even the smell of your vivarium will sweeten, changing from stale and...unpleasant, to forest fresh.

Passive ventilation is your friend.

A small, internal, circulation fan, would be the next, optional step in optimizing your vivarium for rare plant growth, and overall plant health.

Oh wow, would you believe me if I told you it was one of the largest online vendors and apart of their description of how to take care of the frog lol. I will definitely be running some tests on my tank to try and get that sorted out and toss out the misting right when the lights turn off. I have 2 80mm circulation fans in my tank for air circulation. Thank you for the info!


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Old 05-12-2020, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: Filling a 5/8” gap between vent and glass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Monologue View Post
This is not at all intended to be a jab at you personally (really ), but I do wish we could figure out how to dispense with the RH % numbers.

Not only do hygrometers fail, but they're not very accurate to start with. So, if the hygrometer reads 40% but the frogs are swimming and there are 34 species of fungus in the viv making growling noises during the night, should I increase misting? When do I assume the hygrometer is leading me astray?

Also, RH doesn't really tell you how wet a viv is, since the RH is dependent on amount of ventilation, RH of introduced air, air temp, and whether the viv is being heated from below; the viv could be absolutely sopping wet and have an RH of 50% if it is running Wisconsin winter air (<20% RH) in with a fan. The viv could have 80% RH but be frighteningly dry if heated from below, with minimal ventilation, in a cool damp room.

A hygrometer also doesn't tell you what the RH is where the frogs live -- e.g. under the leaf litter, inside cork rounds, under plants; it approaches 100% there all the time, I suppose. If RH is crazy high in the open air, too (where the frogs cannot actually get to anyway since they are only 1/2" tall and have no hang gliders), the frogs have no where to go to 'dry off' -- it is 100% RH or the highway.

I only recently put a hygrometer in one of my thumb vivs for a day (a more or less accurate one: I own a dozen hygrometers -- two brands, four different models -- so I can tell when one has jumped the rails), and found that my practices have humidity up into the 90s after misting in the morning, then dropping to ~70% by the end of the day. All my frogs seem to have normal activity levels throughout the day -- i.e. most come out/call after misting, and also periodically throughout the day, and there is often an inter-viv shouting match right around lights out.

Didn’t take it as a jab at all! You make very good points and I appreciate the knowledge I’ve gained. I want to say my hygrometer is somewhat accurate, it’s a flukers thermometer and hygrometer. It sits at about 80-85% mostly all day, as I type (10:40) it is 83% and it went off at 9:30am. But I will definitely be watching the tank with lowering the misting thanks to both of y’all!


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