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Old 11-04-2019, 07:21 PM
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Default vivarium fan design

well I have been at it again i have decided to tackle airflow in my tank the fans i had in my tank were ok yet only put fresh air into the tank and it did not circulate very well and i didn't want to add ducting in the tank (been there didn't enjoy it) so on that i came up with my own take on a bladeless fan first tests are promising i will put the files up on Thingiverse for anyone to modify as they choose i designed it for a loose fit on a 55mm hole and it houses the bme280 sensor yet i could remove that if anyone wants me to anyway hear is the renders of it and a photo of it in the tank









https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3956359
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Old 11-04-2019, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

This is very cool... how is the airflow?
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

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Originally Posted by Jwiley View Post
This is very cool... how is the airflow?
So far it's been better then having fans in the tank it circulates the air mutch better .gonna look into refining it

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Old 11-05-2019, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

I would buy one of these from you to try. Is it drilled through the glass? Are there multiple holes? How big are they? I think the design is brilliant.

Mark
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Old 11-05-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Encyclia View Post
I would buy one of these from you to try. Is it drilled through the glass? Are there multiple holes? How big are they? I think the design is brilliant.

Mark
the hole in the glass is 55mm but could be changed ime gonna look into different designs as most things on the market for vivariums is just a fan in the tank with netting on this avoids fan blades in the tank completely so no risk to the frogs, all the files are online of this one and there are companies that will print it out for you if you don't own a printer it was about 8hrs printing and cost £2.80 to print its 220mm wide again it was just a proof of concept at this stage and is by no means pretty if you need something specific for your tank ime more than willing to alter the design i find it fun
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:23 PM
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Talking Re: vivarium fan design

I have been working on the fan a bit more and made it a different shape I found with the straight one it was not covering the whole tank and allowing it to steam up in places but this new one is amazing zero steam up and the humidity is staying consistent when it comes on. I call it the Tacofan don't worry still working on it got to make some tweaks i really need one of those resin printers to get better prints only so small i can go with an FDM so that maybe my next purchase gotta save for a while the pics show the results i would like to make it big enugh for Any tank i have also started to draw up a 90 curved one if anyone has any ideas that they may want to see just let me know i may even send you your idea ie hole size that would be acceptable 1" probs the smallest i can go on one fan




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Last edited by scrumpydc; 11-12-2019 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

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Originally Posted by scrumpydc View Post
the hole in the glass is 55mm but could be changed ime gonna look into different designs as most things on the market for vivariums is just a fan in the tank with netting on this avoids fan blades in the tank completely so no risk to the frogs, all the files are online of this one and there are companies that will print it out for you if you don't own a printer it was about 8hrs printing and cost £2.80 to print its 220mm wide again it was just a proof of concept at this stage and is by no means pretty if you need something specific for your tank ime more than willing to alter the design i find it fun
The most efficient thing to do would be to use a hole size that people are already using for another item. Most likely the size for misting bulkheads or drain bulkheads. Then more people would be more likely to have the capability to drill.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

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Originally Posted by Pubfiction View Post
The most efficient thing to do would be to use a hole size that people are already using for another item. Most likely the size for misting bulkheads or drain bulkheads. Then more people would be more likely to have the capability to drill.
on that basis, I need to know what people are using.
on mistking's page, they say For STARTER and ULTIMATE systems drill a 9/16" hole for a
very tight fit (for loose fit use a 5/8" bit). For an ADVANCED
system based on larger diameter tubing drill a 3/4" hole for a very
tight fit (for loose fit use a 7/8" bit)
may make a poll to find out what most people use out of the 4

edit(made a poll)
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/ge...ml#post3077084

Last edited by scrumpydc; 11-12-2019 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

That is really cool.

I wonder if anybody has tried the bladeless concept for water movement(?).

You might want to watch out because Dyson has a patent on the bladeless fan.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

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Originally Posted by hydrophyte View Post
That is really cool.

I wonder if anybody has tried the bladeless concept for water movement(?).

You might want to watch out because Dyson has a patent on the bladeless fan.
no it was to similar to a Japanese invention 30 years ago so they could not patent it they patent a Coanda surface which has an angle of 16 degrees so its the shape of the blade in that exact arrangement they went for so i should be ok i did not copy it on size or shape as i couldn't for 3d printing not exactly 100% shure on what patent they got for it and a quick search on Thingiverse shows tons of bladeless fans
not shure about the water movement could be fun to try i could make an attachment and see if it works
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

hi, forgive me if this is a dumb question, but how is this a recirculating fan system?

it still seems to me like its pulling air from the outside since the blowers are mounted on top of the glass.

unless maybe there is some sort of duct type component that i cant see.

im very interested in this though, i hate the look of fans in my tanks
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

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Originally Posted by dabruno View Post
hi, forgive me if this is a dumb question, but how is this a recirculating fan system?



it still seems to me like its pulling air from the outside since the blowers are mounted on top of the glass.



unless maybe there is some sort of duct type component that i cant see.



im very interested in this though, i hate the look of fans in my tanks
No question is dumb
The fan is blowing fresh air from outside the tank but due to the way the air passes over the airfoil as it goes in the tank it pulls in more air from behind the fan and that's how it circulates it not as efficient as a Dyson fan but I don't have millions to sink into it and massive factorys lol if you look at the cross section picture you get a better idea

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Old 11-12-2019, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

and you dont have humidity drop issues from pumping in fresh air all the time?
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Old 11-13-2019, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

This is a great idea- no fans in the tank!
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

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and you dont have humidity drop issues from pumping in fresh air all the time?
No I have a sensor on it , it's connected to my automated vivarium build so when it gets to the correct humidity it shuts off and if it gets to low a humidifier comes on

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Old 11-14-2019, 04:34 AM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

Greetings,

This is an interesting design - but obstructed airflow is necessarily less efficient than unobstructed airflow. You are wasting a significant amount of the fans' energy in friction/resistance in your taco duct (feel free to use that in name in your patent paperwork ).

These are small fans of course - so the wasted energy is still small. Nevertheless, you would get more air movement for less energy if your two fans were unobstructed.

Along that same line I would suggest one larger fan rather than the small dual fans you have now. Those dual fans are actually dueling a bit since their flows push against each other as they enter the duct. A single fan directed down into the duct, rather than perpendicular input would also be more efficient.
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

Couple questions I have:

How do you deal with keeping frogs safe and away from exposure to the fan?

How does this keep flies from escaping the tank?
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

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Originally Posted by kimcmich View Post
Greetings,



This is an interesting design - but obstructed airflow is necessarily less efficient than unobstructed airflow. You are wasting a significant amount of the fans' energy in friction/resistance in your taco duct (feel free to use that in name in your patent paperwork ).



These are small fans of course - so the wasted energy is still small. Nevertheless, you would get more air movement for less energy if your two fans were unobstructed.



Along that same line I would suggest one larger fan rather than the small dual fans you have now. Those dual fans are actually dueling a bit since their flows push against each other as they enter the duct. A single fan directed down into the duct, rather than perpendicular input would also be more efficient.
In the new design it will use 1 fan the design needs pressure to work that's why other companies use an impeller however I want to get the results of the poll before I fully commit to a fan type 50mm blower fans are common and alot are just rebranded from the same manufacturers so available everywhere and cheap. you are correct a unobstructed fan is better however it is not bidirectional whereas this fan is the first one I have put in my tank that has cleared all the glass and my tank is fairly large witch was the ultimate goal the circulating effect is a bonus, I have other ideas it all depends on what hole size we go for as to the next stage :-) all for fun of the hobby so all ideas welcome and it looks better than a fan inside the tank, I had one of the frogs sit inside the taco lol, on the final it won't have the sensor housing because not everyone has the same setup as me and I am gonna use flow simulation software to make it as effective as I can for everyone

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Old 11-14-2019, 06:24 AM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

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Couple questions I have:



How do you deal with keeping frogs safe and away from exposure to the fan?



How does this keep flies from escaping the tank?
The gap the air cones out is about .8mm so frogs cannot get to the fans the the fly thing is a different story I will have to see if they get out I think only small ones could but they haven't yet I could always put a mesh inside the ducting but I don't think it will be needed

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Old 11-14-2019, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

Quote:
you are correct a unobstructed fan is better however it is not bidirectional
But you are using 2 fans in this design - if you placed those 2 fans blowing in opposite directions you would have bidirectional flow.

Your current design pushes outside, low-humidity air into your tank. Are you sure it's not the drier air that is achieving the anti-fogging effects rather than anything specific about the air-blade design?

I understand that airblades need high pressure - but you expend energy to create that pressure since pressure is resistance to the pushing force of the fans. I think you are wasting energy to get less air movement...

Of course, this seems more like a dyson-hacking, 3-d printer-testing project than it is a quest for efficient air movement - and I support that
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Old 11-14-2019, 10:19 AM
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But you are using 2 fans in this design - if you placed those 2 fans blowing in opposite directions you would have bidirectional flow.



Your current design pushes outside, low-humidity air into your tank. Are you sure it's not the drier air that is achieving the anti-fogging effects rather than anything specific about the air-blade design?



I understand that airblades need high pressure - but you expend energy to create that pressure since pressure is resistance to the pushing force of the fans. I think you are wasting energy to get less air movement...



Of course, this seems more like a dyson-hacking, 3-d printer-testing project than it is a quest for efficient air movement - and I support that
You are correct on all above lol as I said I want to drop it down to one fan ime still playing with it more than anything if I had both fans in the tank it would be linear flow only in the direction the fan is pointing witch would work but they look ugly in my opinion and not uniform, on the note of the dryer air yes that is what I wanted fresh air being blown into the tank the fan also mixing with the air in the tank and adding to the flow thus increasing the output the opening on the fan is 15*20ishmm (not got one with me ) yet if you add the 0.8mm gap to the length of the slot I think it's about 425mm then the airflow would be non existent if it was like that from the fan but there is a good amount of airflow by no means perfect but it shows me it is doing what I wanted clearing the glass and lowering the humidity to whatever I set it to between 75-85 %in my case just a proof of concept still needs work ime also doing it to keep myself occupied I find it fun and 90% yes on the last quote I do want to get to the point were I have efficient air movement bonus of a 3d printer I can prototype cheaply and quickly
^_^

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Old 11-14-2019, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

On the concept of recirculating air, if you made the top fan portion have an adapter for a common sized PVC pipe people could create a duct above the tank to recirculate air. Then you could print another blank that doesn't hold a fan to be mounted on the other side. So they drill two holes. Air gets sucked from one side of the tank to the other. This gives people the option to keep humidity higher if they desire, or just leave the duct off and have fresh air.

The other thought I had was about noise. Just make sure this doesn't add a bunch of extra fan noise or air noise. I realize that might be counter to using a common sized hole and I might have just made things more complicated.
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:57 PM
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On the concept of recirculating air, if you made the top fan portion have an adapter for a common sized PVC pipe people could create a duct above the tank to recirculate air. Then you could print another blank that doesn't hold a fan to be mounted on the other side. So they drill two holes. Air gets sucked from one side of the tank to the other. This gives people the option to keep humidity higher if they desire, or just leave the duct off and have fresh air.

The other thought I had was about noise. Just make sure this doesn't add a bunch of extra fan noise or air noise. I realize that might be counter to using a common sized hole and I might have just made things more complicated.
I will have to do a proper test in a smoke chamber or something to find out what the air circulation is like I could also design an adapter to convert a silent fan into a blower fan I may be able to draw something up adapter ish good idea

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Old 11-23-2019, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

Well, the taco fan works is all i can say so i have updated the 3d files on Thingiverse next step is ime gonna do one for a 25mm hole with a single fan.
for the big one ime gonna use a different kind of fan just working on some bits got my pc working again and a resin 3d printer so gonna do some tests on the cured resin and find out if i can use it, if not ow well still a cool printer to have
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Old 01-04-2020, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

ok so I've had the fan on my tank for a whilst now and it works well i have since changed it as ime testing different types of shapes to suit my tank better just because boredom, however, I know some people don't want to cut a massive hole in there tank for a fairly large fan so ime making a part two well it's going to be for the community and well my smaller tanks anyway the only hole you need is for wires it's low profile about 25 mm tall uses a 50mm blower fan sticks on with magnets n52 10x3mm
8 of them for extra security hope you like it i will upload to Thingiverse in a couple of days if you like let me know or if you want to see any alterations
it does have an angle to it the gapping is approx 1.5 +-.2 mill could also be covered in stuff to blend it in if wanted
Takes approx 2.5 hrs to print on my printer and 10 minutes to put fan and magnets in i have made it a snug fit so no screws needed could glue in if wanted or a dab of silicon if you wanted to get it off again just in case the fan goes just waiting on some more fans and dc jacks and more magnets and I may make a couple if i get enugh interest

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Old 01-04-2020, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

let me know when I can buy one please.
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Old 01-04-2020, 09:30 PM
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let me know when I can buy one please.
are you wanting one fully assembled if not i can print you one and send it to you get yourself a 50mm fan and some 10x3mm magnets from amazon pm me
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Old 01-05-2020, 11:50 AM
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Well I want to do a couple of modifications but looks good so far gonna make it so you can route the wire to the back and a bit wider on one side for neatness

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Old 01-05-2020, 01:12 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

Iím down to buy a couple of assembled kits if you decide to offer them.


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Old 01-05-2020, 05:50 PM
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Iím down to buy a couple of assembled kits if you decide to offer them.


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I can do a couple but possibly no power supply .depending on where in the world you are would be easier to get one in your area, would just be a 12v fan and magnets and housing how long of a cable would you need pm me to discuss more if you want some just so i can get bits together will post a pic of the finished unit in a minute ps i could solder a new cable with a 5.5x2.5 jack on male or female I have a good amount of them
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Old 01-05-2020, 05:55 PM
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Ok I got it done mutch happier with it now what do you think just waiting on some cable witch I will get tomorrow

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Old 01-07-2020, 01:19 AM
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I can do a couple but possibly no power supply .depending on where in the world you are would be easier to get one in your area, would just be a 12v fan and magnets and housing how long of a cable would you need pm me to discuss more if you want some just so i can get bits together will post a pic of the finished unit in a minute ps i could solder a new cable with a 5.5x2.5 jack on male or female I have a good amount of them


Nice, Iíll pm you shortly, things are a touch hectic.

Iím in Toronto, Canada ... I know next to nothing about electronics hence searching for a plug Ďní play solution.




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Old 01-07-2020, 06:13 AM
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Got the cable can now make if people want one let me know ime not gonna do a ton so let me know sooner rather than later will still post on thingyverse in a couple of days if you want to make one or have access to a 3d printer if not pm me as far as power supplys ime gonna look into it

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Old 01-11-2020, 10:21 AM
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published download and print yourself or from a company or have me print your plastic parts I will supply the fan and the magnets all you will need is a power supply 12vdc all money will go back into the frogs and designing new parts for them

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4096588

if you print one let me know what you think
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

Question: how did you secure the magnets? Like, what specific glue did you use?

I ask because I read that neodymium magnets are hard to glue on certain plastics, and I'd like to use them to secure my fans. Right now they are secured but not glued, so its "dangerous" if j were to bump it.

Thanks!
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Old 01-11-2020, 10:59 PM
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Close tolerances tight push fit, but a good super glue should work or epoxy resin would be best as it sticks to most surfaces and is pet safe when fully cured hope this helps

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Old 01-11-2020, 11:00 PM
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Are your magnets waterproof? The ones ij have been using corrode.

If you ever made mounts for PC fans, I'd totally buy some if you sell them Haha

You're extremely talented. I could never do something like this.

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Old 01-11-2020, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

Get a well coated neodymium magnet you can always coat the magnet in a thin layer of silicon or epoxy to seal it but a well coated one should not corrode but there are plastic coated ones use n52 as they are the strongest
No mine are not waterproof just standerd ones
I suppose I could look into it some more I have not had this problem except in an aquarium witch is why I put a layer of silicon around one a thin smear of silicon stopped it
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Last edited by scrumpydc; 01-11-2020 at 11:11 PM.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2020, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrumpydc View Post
published download and print yourself or from a company or have me print your plastic parts I will supply the fan and the magnets all you will need is a power supply 12vdc all money will go back into the frogs and designing new parts for them



https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4096588



if you print one let me know what you think
I would love it if you could make me two of these. I have a 36x18x18 that I will be using for poison dart frogs. How much are you asking?

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2020, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: vivarium fan design

I commissioned 3 of these from scrumpydc -- they arrived today, well-packed and well put-together. Very professionally done and mount very nicely to the glass via magnets.

My power source arrives tomorrow at which point I'll get to testing them out; my plan is to have them on timers. Excited to put these to use!
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