~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions) - Dendroboard
Dendroboard

Go Back   Dendroboard > Vivariums > Parts & Construction
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Advertise

Support Our Sponsors
No Threads to Display.

facebook

Like Tree11Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2019, 02:50 AM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Hi all,

So, I am trying to build a terrarium out of a gigantic armoire I acquired through Facebook Marketplace. Its interior space is a little less than 5.5ft x 4ft x 2ft. It is quite large, and so I know that some traditional rules of terrarium maintenance / health will not apply and that I will need to ask some questions.

[I want to say, no animal beyond microfauna is going to inhabit this terrarium, so strategies to help it grow are free from that restriction. It is not a vivarium.]

The amoire, after the doors have been temporarily removed and the shelves sawn out, looks like this:

https://imgur.com/8Jipw7r

I plan to do several things with the final setup, which I have drawn up in a notebook. It's going to include such things as:

- A waterfall, which will not be active all the time, which consists of water spilling from a piece of driftwood that resembles a dragon's skull.
- The ruins of a castle, which will surround a small indoor-friendly tree that I hope to get to grow branches through the castle.
- A background constructed of traditional spray foam + silicone + background texture + driftwood, etc.

For some sense of what I'm doing, here's a pic of the dragon skull for the waterfall:

20190424_190735.jpg

And a pic of (a piece of) the ruined castle wall:

20190424_184619.jpg

So far I've used part of the shelves I cut up to make a lip to contain the false bottom and substrate, and this is what it looks like currently:

20190424_184023.jpg

Next up on the chopping block, not necessarily in this order, are:
1) Painting the interior of the substrate / false bottom area with several layers of West System epoxy or FlexSeal across several days.
2) Creating a chamber from the back of the armoire in which the waterfall pump is accessible, so that I can remove it if I absolutely have to.
3) Installing many PVC pipe pillars to hold up the eggcrate that divides false bottom and substrate.
4) Putting in the waterfall pump, surrounding by some kind of filtering foam or other substance that is both i) higher than the waterfall pump and the drainage layer's maximum height, and ii) able to permit enough water through to the waterfall pump that it can operate continuously. (If this is even possible.)

...and many other things during or after that.

I have some questions, and I'm sure I will have many more later, so that I hope someone with more knowledge than I have will be able to help me.

- Is there anything better than layers of epoxy or flexseal for waterproofing an enclosed area? How many layers would I need to apply of one or the other? I already have some West System epoxy, but I doubt it's enough to coat the space ~5 times, which is what I was going to aim for to make leaks impossible.

- Is there a better substance than pond foam filter to allow water through to the pump but filter out everything else, and still allow enough water through quickly enough to operate the pump? I will get a picture of what I'm referring to by "pond foam filter" later if needed. My tests with it right now suggest that the water flow up to the waterfall starting point is going to be interrupted frequently, because the foam only allows a tiny bit of water through while the pump is needing much more water.

I can clarify if needed. Thanks for your consideration. I know this is an ambitious project, and probably some things I've planned won't really work as I think they will. So I'd love any input.
Encyclia likes this.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2019, 03:46 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 13
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

I can't wait to see the progress of this very ambitious project. If you can get everything to work out I bet it will be amazing. I hope you never want to move it though...lol
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Imajenn For This Useful Post:
Kinstrome (04-25-2019)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2019, 05:59 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Thank you. I probably will have to move it one day, years from now I hope. But I will make the castle with as few connections as possible so it can be disassembled, and I will of course have to dig up all the substrate. (It was heavy enough to get in, without anything in it.)

Just a couple of notes, to myself as much to anyone else:

- Because I'm using driftwood, I decided to seal it. I already sealed the dragon head with polyurethane, which changed its appearance, too, in a more or less attractive way. I have yet to seal the "ribs" or the "arm," though. (I'm thinking of having a driftwood arm attach from across the terrarium to a piece of the ruined castle, as that will provide some support for it and provide a sort of backstory to this terrarium.)

- Regarding the castle, I'm having trouble figuring out how to make it support itself above the ground. This castle is very ruined, and as such I didn't even design it in one piece, but several very broken pieces. Really, it's more of a tower than a castle. One thing I thought I could do is seal parts of the castle to the walls of the armoire before GS-foaming it and texturing it, then attach other parts to those parts. I don't know if that will work, though, and I don't have much way of knowing before I actually get most of the terrarium finished.
Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2019, 11:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 740
Thanks: 4
Thanked 113 Times in 105 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Greetings,

I've had multiple vivs over the years with several having water falls or dribble walls. Three coats of West system epoxy should be sufficient to fully seal your wood but you should allow/test for any deformation of your structure due to weight. Cured west epoxy is somewhat flexible but it has its limits.

As for your water intake, I would suggest a couple of things:
  • Assuming you will have front access to your viv. I highly suggest using a powerhead as your water pump and placing it where you can reach into the viv from the front (maybe at the bottom of the waterfall?) to service it. A pump running 24x7 will clog no matter what your filter method and easy access will make your life more enjoyable.
  • Don't worry about filter foam - it won't do much for you beyond clogging the power head quickly. Instead, the plastic intake diffuser that comes with many powerheads will generally do a decent job of blocking large debris but letting small stuff (that will clog filter foam) through. I've had good luck with Rio brand power heads - they are small and cheap and they do well as waterfall pumps in false bottoms (they resist clogging pretty well).

I would have recommended against trying to seal your driftwood. Even the tiniest unsealed surface, bubble or crack will let water into the wood; the wood will swell and cause runaway failure of the sealant.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to kimcmich For This Useful Post:
Kinstrome (04-26-2019)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:28 AM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Thank you for the information. Unfortunately, I read your message only after I had sawn out a square in the bottom of the back wall, for retrieval for the pump from the back --- access which I believed would allow me to keep the pump entirely subterranean. My intention was to leave enough hand space for me to unscrew the pump and clean it or, if necessary, replace it, all while having it entirely underwater.

I should note:
  • I had intended the waterfall not to be on except for observation. The only exception to this, I think, would be if I found that the humidity it afforded for the plant life made a difference.
  • In the interest of better filtering the pump, I had earlier today thought to make multiple layers of eggcrate (maybe only 2), each with double-netted mosquito netting (or another filtering substance). My idea was that water should still be able to return to the waterfall pump quickly enough to replenish it, even with two eggcrates with doubly-thick netting filtering out the substrate. Of course, I recognize that even that is not a perfect solution.
  • It is true that I sealed the "dragon skull," although I did not seal any other driftwood. I guess I will just have to go with what i've done and hope it doesn't get warped / destroyed by soaking, because it's far too valuable to the setup to get rid of. I doubt there is another piece of wood on the planet that so perfectly gets across the image I am trying to convey.
Even though I don't think there's much I can change at this point, I am very grateful for the input. I don't know much about water-related technology like powerheads, so this intel is much needed for a project like this and future projects, too. (I will definitely consider switching out my waterfall pump, but I already have a couple of them and I've tested one of them, so I'd prefer to stick with what I have.)

EDIT: Also, after doing some searching, I can't seem to find the Rio powerhead I need! I'm using a 300-500 G/PH-capable pump that is set to 300 GPH, which is still a little strong. The closest equivalent would be the 990 L/PH model (about ~262 GPH or so), but I can't seem to find it for sale, only listed on one site.

Last edited by Kinstrome; 04-26-2019 at 12:41 AM. Reason: details
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:47 AM
Socratic Monologue's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Central WI
Posts: 1,077
Thanks: 46
Thanked 131 Times in 126 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Likely you could shave off a few GPH with a ball valve on the outlet side, or use smaller tubing to restrict the flow. Or, you could wait until the pump and lines gunk up and then you'll be right where you want to be.
__________________
I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contain'd.

- Whitman
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Socratic Monologue For This Useful Post:
Kinstrome (04-26-2019)
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2019, 07:11 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Well, I was thinking of doing what I had done to past waterfalls, that is, sticking a crumpled piece of mosquito netting or something like that just into the head of the waterfall to slow down (or otherwise alter) the flow a bit. Does that mess up the water pump in any way, to have its flow restricted?

I have a couple of photographs to show a little progress:

20190425_204527.jpg

^This is the hole I sawed into the back. I already made the eggcrate cage for it and netted it many times over, but I can't put it in until the waterproofer cures. I know it doesn't look like the height of professionalism, but the back board split while I was cutting it for reasons I didn't expect. Anyway, it's big enough for me to fit a couple hands inside and remove the pump from the tube.

20190425_202729.jpg

^This isn't really progress, but my ficus retusa came in. I know that having a tree ordinarily reserved for use as a bonsai inside of a terrarium instead is unconventional and reckless, but I've at least taken many precautions. I have a huge amount of ceiling space for light fixtures as well as some powerful lights coming in, and the ficus retusa is going to be raised on a mound (within castle walls) so that it isn't swamped with moisture. (And if the waterfall proves dangerous to it, I'll just keep it off.)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2019, 09:44 PM
Socratic Monologue's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Central WI
Posts: 1,077
Thanks: 46
Thanked 131 Times in 126 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

I understand that any pump can safely be restricted by restricting the flow downstream from the pump, so long as you leave enough flow to cool the pump (e.g. if you restrict a 1000gph pump to 2 gph, it will likely overheat and fail). If you restrict the flow upstream of the pump, the pump will cavitate and fail. So, restricting a moderate amount and after the pump is acceptable.
__________________
I think I could turn and live with animals, they are so placid and self-contain'd.

- Whitman
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2019, 01:09 AM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

I should be fine, then. The stuffing isn't just to restrict the water, but to alter it so that it looks less like a hose shooting out water, which is what it really is.

I have a question regarding the castle walls, which I am including another photograph of:

20190426_175633.jpg

So, to describe what exactly you are looking at, it's crossed lengths of aluminum wire attached and decorated with "Apoxie" brand epoxy clay. As far as I can remember it's nothing besides those two substances.

Now, the piece in the picture is going to be suspended above the ground; I have another piece that is going to be on the ground below but not connected to it, so that the two pieces are separated and display part of the ficus retusa within them.

There are other fragmented pieces of the castle that are going to be in the air, so my question is, how do I connect these pieces and keep them suspended? They are up to 3 or 4 pounds of weight, so that epoxy clay alone --- powerful though it is --- can't connect them alone.

My options right now appear to be:

1) Attach fragments of the castle wall to the sides of the armoire and glue them + cover them in Great Stuff and silicone (which I'll be doing to build the castle, anyway), then attach the "floating" castle wall pieces to the other ones via aluminum wires and epoxy clay. This makes the weight and stability of the castle wall fragments dependent on the strength of GS foam, though, the strength of which I'm uncertain.

2) Attach those heavier castle wall fragments to the ceiling of the armoire. They'll have plenty of strength, but they may dangle, and they may interfere with maintaining the lights.

3) Give up and just lengthen every "floating" castle wall piece so that it touches the ground. The only problem with this is that it somewhat clashes with the aesthetic I'm going for, although if that's necessary, it's necessary.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2019, 11:54 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Some notes to myself:
  • I need to consider some things for the walls of the terrarium, besides the usual spray foam + silicone + coco coir / coco husk / peat moss texture. I've played around with the usual things, like driftwood, rocks, and niches dug to allow for trailing plants, although I also have slate and pieces of castle walls available to insert. One type of item I've had around for a while that I never used due to risks to animals is the selenite crystal "wand". It can dissolve slightly in water, making it dangerous to animals drinking that water, but without any animals around, it could be a nice aesthetic, if it ends up complementing the rest of the setup. A picture of what I'm talking about, although not my exact crystals:

il_570xN.1322050048_sjcv.jpg
  • I need to determine whether or not these Jungle Dawn lights will survive in the humidity of my setup. It will indeed be rather humid, and these lights come with fans to prevent overheating. If they'll be safe inside an enclosure, that would be great, as that will put them closer to the plants as well, but these were expensive lights, and I want them to last a very, very long time.
  • I have frozen magnolia leaves I've gathered for leaf litter, and I have springtails ready to eat them and keep up the soil, but I'm not sure if I need to mix some of the leaves in with the soil (substrate I mean) to keep up the underground springtails. Or if springtails will be helpful for this kind of setup.
  • For that matter, I don't know if ABG mix, which I'm used to using, will be good for my ficus retusa.
  • I've gone to the Mississippi River and found a good selection of driftwood to serve as ribs and arm bones. I'm tempted to pressure wash them to get off all the rotty-ness, but I don't know if that is a good idea yet. I also don't know how I'm going to make the dragon arm that connects to the castle, because it needs to be supported both by GS foam and by the castle. It seems like a Catch-22: I have to have the foam to make the castle, but I have to have the castle to support the dragon arm, while at the same time I need the foam to support the dragon arm, too.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2019, 07:47 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Is there anything else people have used to texture their foam walls with besides the usual coco coir / coco husk / peat moss / etc. ? I might consider leaving it just as cut-up black GS foam, but I don't know if that will really complement the look I'm going for.

EDIT: I'm wondering what drylok looks like, not on pink foam but on black GS spray foam? It may make more sense.

Last edited by Kinstrome; 05-01-2019 at 08:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2019, 11:51 AM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

So, some updates and explanations.

T9 on back.jpg

^I put the armoire on its back with some help three days ago, in order to attend to thinks like spray foaming. I live alone, so help had to be called in, as it will the next few times I have to shift the armoire.

Skull in T9.jpg

^The driftwood intended as the dragon's head / skull had a hole drilled for the waterfall pipe, which isn't visible in the photograph. This was the first thing I did once the armoire was on its back. The pipe was long enough for the pump to rest comfortably in its cut-out chamber. I hadn't applied foam at the time of the photograph.

One of the things I did foam in, yesterday, was this castle fragment. I only did enough to fix it in place, as I'm not yet sure how the background will work:

Castle frag fixed.jpg

^A brief explanation of how I make the castle fragments: a few pieces of aluminum armature wire are crossed and sealed together at the joints with epoxy clay. Once the clay links have hardened, I start adding wires in different directions, joining them where they meet. (Later, I can use a wire cutter to remove some links in order to make the castle look more "ruined".) When the aluminum-wire skeleton is made, I use epoxy clay to solidify the lines of wire that are crossing each other. Depending on the fragment, other things may be added, like walls (which are patterned like bricks and mortar using a dime), stairs, and little supplies like boxes and cannonballs. I'm not really talented enough with clay to make things finer than that.

Eggcrate pieces.jpg

^These eggcrate pieces, double-wrapped with mosquito netting, were made about a week ago, but I haven't fixed them inside the armoire, mostly because I haven't tested the waterfall, yet. I may be having a friend come over later this morning in order to pick it up, let me test it really quickly, then turn it off. I have, however, fitted the pieces in and am pretty close to certain that they will cover the area, excepting the cracks along the wall, which I will close with silicone.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2019, 11:54 AM
fishingguy12345's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 242
Thanks: 15
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Nice! This is a cool project
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2019, 08:16 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Thank you! It's always good to hear feedback.

I've made some progress:

1st Door Sprayed.jpg

^This is one of the two doors --- specifically, the left door --- sprayed with Flexseal spray on the inside. It was not a wise choice aesthetically; there are clusters of bubbles / foam that look like large scuff marks from a distance. But my limited understanding of the interactions between humidity and wood led me to go down the safe road and coat the interior of the door.

Same with the ceiling:

T9 Ceiling.jpg

^Two of the three "segments" of the ceiling have been sprayed so far; I am waiting to spray the 2nd door in order to use the remainder of the spray can on that door, just as I did for the first door.

The holes are rather messy, being the product of a jab saw. I cut an outline of the hole with a circular Lenox saw bit, which made it easier for the jab saw to follow the shape. This was not intentional: I bought the saw bit thinking it could do the job itself, but found it was too much work for the power drill, being 5" in diameter. But it did do a good job of making a groove and being a compass at the same time, so I can't complain.

https://youtu.be/nKZIj0iokYs

^If this video loads, you can get kind of an idea how the waterfall works. Due to time constraints (specifically the need to put it back down and the need for another person to help me do it), I couldn't get better lighting; the clamp bracket was as far from the socket as it could be stretched.

It worked as intended --- after a clump of mosquito netting was jammed into the skull. The water dribbles down from the "chin" and the "cheek" of the skull, so that it falls more or less on the chamber where the pump will be housed, which will be covered in rocks.

There were still some leaks in the bottom, so that I will have to silicone some more to make sure everything works. I intend to leave it filled for a couple of days before I give it the thumbs up. There was a leaking spot in the front and two tiny leaking spots in the back-left wall.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-04-2019, 08:05 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

I've suffered sleepless nights trying to find a proper background texture for this terrarium. I don't want to go the traditional coco coir / coco husk / peat moss route because, in my experience, that surface washes away over time, leaving black silicone that clashes with the terrarium look.

I've considered many things --- castle pieces embedded in spray foam and made of pink foam and drylok? selenite crystals? the moss-and-cork mosaic? lianas made of rope, etc.? drylok'd rock walls?

Right now, I'm considering a mix of several of those things. My inspiration came from a video game I played a long time ago, Final Fantasy XI, and a map I found very beautiful: "Sanctuary of Zi'tah." A couple of pictures:

ZiTah_-_Boyahda.jpg

300px-The_Sanctuary_of_Zi'Tah_Area.jpg

It was an area that combined glowing crystals, small pools, and tremendous trees. Now, I can't have all that in a terrarium, but it did get me to thinking that I could combine the idea of a moss mosaic with the crystals. This would complement spaces of plain cut Great Stuff foam, which looks like rough black rocks, especially when matched up with those other things.

Two points about the crystals:
  • If I am going to use selenite crystals (which would look beautiful in the light), I am sure I will need to waterproof them so they don't dissolve in bits over time. This was the very reason I chose not to include them in a vivarium; watering them could endanger animals.
  • Selenite crystals don't naturally converge in points, I believe; they are usually sliced at two ends by the people who extract them, as far as I can tell. To avoid this artificial look, I would need to cover both ends in spray foam or moss (or something else).
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2019, 02:40 PM
Pitbull's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 14
Thanks: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinstrome View Post
  • Selenite crystals don't naturally converge in points, I believe; they are usually sliced at two ends by the people who extract them, as far as I can tell. To avoid this artificial look, I would need to cover both ends in spray foam or moss (or something else).
Selenite is also commonly sold in "tower" or "skyscraper" formations, artificially cut into a point. Those formations may fit the look you're going for without any additional scultping or crafting.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Pitbull For This Useful Post:
Kinstrome (05-05-2019)
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-05-2019, 09:06 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Thanks, although the incremental selenite "tower" --- the one that appears to have steps cut into it and is commonly sold as a lamp --- isn't really the kind of look I would like to use. I prefer the obelisk shape of quartz crystals, but as far as I can tell selenite crystals can't be made to look like that without also looking very artificial. Obelisk selenite crystals seem to look unnaturally smoothed-over, although the natural crystals are not glass-smooth.

I thought I would show some photographs to illustrate my castle and how I am doing it:

Castle work materials.jpg

^These are most of the materials I use to create the castle fragments. Gray epoxy clay (Part 'A' and Part 'B'), 1/8" and 1/16" aluminum armature wire, pliers-wire cutters combo tool, a wax-carving tool to make that flowery filigree on the outer-wall pillars, a utensil I used for scooping out that hard-to-extricate clay at the bottom of the container, and nitrile gloves. Not pictured but invaluable is the dime I used to create patterns.

Castle pieces (fixed).jpg

^Some of the castle pieces that have been fixed in place with foam. I don't expect this to look comprehensible yet; the pieces look randomly placed and the foam (including some already-cut foam bits) is distracting. But there is a method! Those aluminum wires you can perhaps see circling up from the back wall are going to connect the "floating" castle piece (the one in the next photograph) to the back wall and right wall.

Castle pieces (unfixed).jpg

^Here are (most of) the castle pieces that haven't been fixed into the terrarium yet. The big, tall piece to the left is the "floating" piece that will won't touch the ground but won't directly be fixed to the walls. It will, however, be attached to other castle pieces by the aluminum wires in those pieces, as well as to the ceiling by that aluminum wire you can't see at the very top. To the right of this piece is a piece that is going to lie at the base. The floating piece and that base piece are (in theory) going to form what almost looked like a mouth when they are fixed into the proper positions, although I am skeptical that it will work as easily as I hope.

EDIT: What is a reasonable way to seal selenite crystals that does not mar their luster? I am sure I need to seal them, but I want them to be as beautiful afterwards as they were before.

Last edited by Kinstrome; 05-05-2019 at 09:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2019, 11:10 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

A bit more progress and some notes.

Notched PVC couplings.jpg

^I've had these couplings around for a while, but I finally got around to notching them. They are 3" long and 3" in diameter, good measurements for my purpose. They will support the eggcrate layer above the waterfall pump, but not far above it, so that the water can get high enough to cover the pump but not high enough to spill out the pump-retrieval hatch. They aren't really "notched," of course; I thought it would be good to have a cut through the whole length of them, so water can't possibly not get out.

Microfauna.jpg

^My springtail culture. I suppose microfauna are probably not even necessary for this kind of animal-free terrarium, but I wanted to ensure the health of the plants.

Polymer clay.jpg

^Some polymer clay decorations, made in order to accentuate the "stories" going on in this terrarium. The gold may be put in an open wooden chest, perhaps, and the spear inserted into the bones of the dragon skeleton. Some of these (like the animals) probably won't make it into the final version, but the gold and weaponry will probably be multiplied many times over if I decide to keep them.

Wing driftwood.jpg

^The "wings" of the dragon, which have in the last couple of hours been inserted into the terrarium back wall. Like all other bones, they have been coated in polyurethane, not for waterproofing anymore but to match the tone of the skull.

This was a difficult piece for which to decide a final position, because unlike the other body parts included, wings on a reptilian animal like a lizard don't have a really clear form. I had simply to go with what looked good. There was also limited space, and the problem of keeping it suspended while the GS foam was (is) drying. My late grandmother's pill box has actually been sealed forever underneath it, as it was being used to support the wing at the correct angle.

Arm pieces.jpg

^The right arm of the dragon. The hand will be resting on a part of the ruined castle, which it was presumably in the process of ripping apart when it perished. The wrist is technically not attached to the arm yet, as I have to wait until basically the entire castle is done to figure out what position it's going to be fastened in, but this is basically what it's going to look like.

And most importantly...

Fire wight inspection.jpg

^My fire-elemental model inspects the terrarium. He says it's going in the right direction, but that it could use more fire.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2019, 05:14 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Some more stuff:

Epoxy resin setup.jpg

^I've had this resin around for a while. Originally I bought it planning to make some form of art with it --- I had become enamored with multimedia projects like making eggs out of colored resin and root burls --- but that never manifested.

Like I said earlier, I wanted to include selenite crystals in this terrarium, but I didn't want them to dissolve in a few years from exposure to water. Yet I didn't want to lose the luster of their pearly filaments, so I looked for something to seal the crystals with. I originally tested clear Flexseal spray on the selenite, but that took away almost all of the sheen. I begrudgingly went for the epoxy resin, although something told me it would turn out exactly the same.

Epoxy resin testing.jpg

^Fortunately, it didn't. I won't say the crystals had the same look to them as before, but they were still rather beautiful, and in a different way. The filaments are less visible, so they look more like quartz crystals. But I've bought myself peace of mind.

----------------------------

I wasn't going to post this until the project was complete, but here is a drawing of the "dragon skeleton" I made earlier for the sake of viewers who might not see the dragon in the driftwood:

Dragon Depiction.jpg

^ Some notes: The vertebrae are not going to be included in the final terrarium, they are just there to give some sense of anatomy. Also, there will probably be a bit of the left hand just barely visible to the top-right of the skull, even though there is no left hand depicted.

And here are some labels for your convenience:

Dragon IDs.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2019, 12:12 AM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Dowels.jpg

^I installed the "floating" castle piece this morning. It had to be supported by dowels in order to prevent it from falling in on itself, a challenge I had not foreseen, but like all challenges in art, it is also an opportunity to make more art. Now that I have something running through the middle of the castle, I can make more branching lines throughout it and give it a more intricate, ruined appearance.

My two concerns are:
  1. The crossing lines may obstruct the growth of the ficus retusa in a way that I can't predict. This could also be a good thing, if it grows around it, but I don't know enough about the plant to know how it will grow in this setting.

    The bigger concern, though, is:
  2. The crossing lines may obstruct the passage of light from multiple directions. This is also very hard to predict at this point. There are, of course, six different lights, all of them flood lights (right now). It may end up being all right.

EDIT: A note about the castle: it's far from finished. So if there seems to be a paucity of detail somewhere, that's because I haven't attended to that area yet. I will be able to continue editing the castle even after the terrarium is "done," too.

River Stones.jpg

^These aren't that important at this stage in the development, but I did want to run these past the forum in case there is a problem with using them. I purchased these at a Lowe's with the intention of using them as the "substrate" above the waterfall pump's cage / chamber. My thinking is that, being rather large and round stones, they will have big gaps between them. Thus, water will trickle through them quickly and replenish the pool from which the pump draws water. They won't cover the whole floor of the terrarium, though, just the space where the waterfall makes impact with the floor (and perhaps a little further out, where it splashes).

EDIT: It seems the list screwed up, although I put "LIST=2" instead of "LIST=1" for the second item.

EDIT: Never mind, figured out how it works.

Last edited by Kinstrome; 05-09-2019 at 12:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2019, 05:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Hi,

I'm not sure if you've decided on a final solution for your background texture (honestly I didn't read everything about the selenite crystals etc etc) but I did note the mention of West Systems epoxy.

Something I have done many times in the past, and with some builds am still enjoying the results of today, is to:
1) carve/sculpt texture into my foam with a pointed, serrated blade; besides cutting in cracks, ledges etc, know that you can use the tip to peck out little pockmarks for a karst or "wonderstone" look, then
2) seal the foam with a couple coats of brushable epoxy, and finally
3) color the epoxy (either with powdered mineral pigments, or with acrylic paints). I like to start coloring maybe 30 minutes after applying the last epoxy coat, since although it's extremely sticky when still uncured, epoxy is conversely extremely non-stick when it's cured; I find it best to work with it, than to fight it (it tends to win, if you don't know how to work with it).

This method can produce some very pleasing "fake rock" that weights nothing, is utterly waterproof, and is hard-shelled and durable. I share your disdain for organics pressed into silicone as a background. These days I'm liking a combination of this "fake rock" and "cork mosaic" for my larger backgrounds.

Anyway - congrats, you've got yourself an interesting, ambitious project. I'm sure you are learning so, so, soooo much. Hopefully this project turns out well enough to stoke you to do it all again in the not-too-distant future, but even better. Take your time, do your homework, and prepare your surfaces for good adhesion whenever applicable. It'll all pay off.

good luck!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jgragg For This Useful Post:
Kinstrome (05-09-2019)
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2019, 09:15 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

jgragg,

Would you happen to be able to post a photograph of one or more of your setups using this colored-epoxy method? I'm very interested.

I wouldn't say I have a disdain for organics in the background (although I'm sure I wrote something that made it sound that way), only that there are some struggles to be sure. I actually rather like three-dimensional plant life representations, but with the great amount of light that this enclosure is going to enjoy, using moss to "pretty up" the background, all the way to the top wall, is probably going to result in a lot of dead moss and an ugly dead background.

I am a little skeptical that your method of background coloration will be viable in my situation when the walls of this particular enclosure are so massive, covering so much surface area. I may not have time to paint the last layer before it totally cures! And there are so many objects in the back walls that the epoxy would surely leak over onto, say, the dragon bones or the castle. (Plus, with so much surface area, the cost of multiple epoxy layers is sure to be expensive! IIRC one gallon of West System's 105 + 207 [clear cure] is a little less than $200 USD.)

Even so, I am absolutely grateful for hearing new methods of decorating enclosures. I'd be very happy if you could produce a picture or a few pictures of this method used in a vivarium.

I also wanted to say, I am pretty much exactly at the point in development in which all the foam has been cut but no silicone or any other adhesive has been applied to decorate the cut foam. The selenite crystals have been inserted, of course, but they don't occupy much space.

This photograph I recently uploaded gives a decent idea of what the foam background looks like, although at this point the whole back wall is covered in foam. There are also a few epoxy-clad selenite crystals in the background, although some of them may be difficult to see.

Dowels.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2019, 11:34 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

I prefer to not put images online, but I can describe a few options or aspects of what I have done with foam, epoxy, and pigments. I could also text you some pics if you like. Just PM me.

First, while epoxy is like silicone and doesn't like to stick to its cured self, it sticks just fine to its partially-cured self. Basically if it still has a bit of "tack" to it, I consider it sufficiently adherent to go ahead and add another layer, or to overlap along an edge. This enables the user to not have to do a full-width coat every time they need to put on some more epoxy. My biggest wooden viv, with bulkhead, sump, and stream, was about 60"T x 33"W x 28"D. Yours might be bigger, but...that was a big viv, and I used the method I described to you (with the pigment being acrylic paints, in that case).

You are quite right to be leery of the mess-making potential of epoxy. Sweet Jesus it gets everywhere. For this reason, I blundered into a (for me...) new method, that of building my foam backgrounds in sections, coating & coloring them on all sides except that to be adhered to the viv walls, and then adhering the otherwise-completed pieces to the viv walls. If the walls are glass, great - just use silicone. If the walls are wood, and have been covered already in epoxy, you just have to scuff the epoxy on the walls, and use fresh epoxy as the adhesive to stick the foam to the walls.

West is definitely expensive stuff! I have never used it. However I have used both Polygem and Smooth-on products.
https://www.smooth-on.com/product-li...tat-cast-coat/
https://www.polygem.com/products/zoopoxy

With Polygem I have only used the 307 lite, and with the Smooth-on I have only used their Cast & Coat. I have also used a thickening agent from Polygem, with both companies' stuff. I can heartily recommend all these, though I now prefer brushable over putty formulation for most coating applications.

Two layers of brushable will do you, if you've taken care to not leave any bare spots with the first layer. Honestly, one layer of putty will probably do you, unless you've got amazing technique with a trowel and can get that crap on there thin. I tend to lay putty on thick (thicker than necessary, but it's a bit hard to master the tool and material) - one of the reasons I now prefer the brushable formulation. Note that both companies now offer brushable and putty formulations, and also thickening agents in case the texture you want to work with is either 1) somewhere between the off-the-shelf offerings, or 2) stiffer (and less sticky!) than off-the-shelf putty.
  • Basically the putty is good for laying onto minimally-prepped foam, and then adding texture to that (with e.g. stippling with a thick brush, denting with crumpled tin foil or an actual rock, or creasing / "cracking" with a knife or trowel).
  • The brushable on the other hand, is good for when you've taken substantial care texturing your foam, and want to retain almost all that texture after the epoxy is applied.
  • If you were a good hand-thrower, already a good ceramic artist or potter for example, you could add thickening agent to putty and just form up your caves or whatever. No foam.

Quote:
I actually rather like three-dimensional plant life representations, but with the great amount of light that this enclosure is going to enjoy, using moss to "pretty up" the background, all the way to the top wall, is probably going to result in a lot of dead moss and an ugly dead background.
The trick is layering placement such that the upper strata don't hog all the light. E.g., just do mini broms up top, and only run them along the back and sides. Don't fly anything into space, on branches or whatever, way up high. This is the best zone for the cork mosaic, as you can have nice drier feet for the broms by mounting to the cork, and you can have mosses occupying the dead LFS packed into the interstices. Moss won't do well lower down, with less light, anyway. There are plenty of vascular plants that will however.

Anyway, long post here - I'll sign off.

Good luck, and have fun!
Kinstrome likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2019, 06:07 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

It might also be helpful to point out - the brushable formulation I know is of a consistency much like cool (~65F?) honey. It flows (yeah, slowly, but oh it flows), and it self-levels, and interestingly, if it's applied overhead and it drips (and oh, it does drip!), the place it dripped from does not dry to a sharp point but instead it retracts into a very mild little bump. I guess there's a lot of surface tension, despite the high viscosity. If you brush it heavily onto a vertical wall, it slowly sags and runs down, and runs out onto any connecting horizontal surfaces, but a substantial thickness remains on the vertical plane too. A lot of the craft of using this stuff, is learning how much / how little to brush onto vertical and overhead surfaces, to avoid winding up with a floor coat that's about 5x thicker than everything else. But also avoid gaps in coverage. Not quite art, but definitely skilled craft.

The putty formulation on the other hand is of a consistency much like cool peanut butter. The cheap, well-emulsified, sugary stuff, not the good "nuttin' but peanuts" stuff that is much stiffer, that you have to stir yourself. You can trowel putty overhead or on vertical surfaces and it stays there just like you placed it. No sag, no drip, no nothing.

Adding the thickening agent reduces the stickiness and viscosity of either formulation (which starts out as super-duper sticky!), such that you can form shapes by gloved hand. It's easy to just start small and keep adding agent and kneading it in until you get the consistency right where you like it. Without the thickening agent, you can do a bit of that hand-placing and hand-shaping with the putty formulation if you keep dipping your hand (or other tool, like putty knife or trowel) in water. Otherwise it's hopelessly sticky.
  • When I'm working with putty I always have a roll of paper towels, a trash can, a box of disposable gloves, and a disposable vessel full of water, large enough to accommodate dipping my tool(s) and paper towels into it. I use a lot of paper towels to keep my gloved hands quite clean, and the tool(s) cleanish. Avoid heavy build-up, or the stickiness starts to dominate. Just moisten a paper towel, grab the tool or wipe your hand with it, and pull or wipe off as much putty as you can. Repeat until clean/cleanish.
  • When I'm working with the brushable stuff I have the paper towels, the gloves, and the trash can. Just no water. No dipping the tool, which is just a non-shedding brush.
  • Putty is less messy for your surrounding environment. It can only move where you accidentally transfer it (and you will!). The brushable is VASTLY more messy, because it drips, or self-vectors if you prefer. Much like with painting, working with epoxy requires wearing "garbage clothes and shoes".

It is my impression that West Systems epoxy is much, much runnier than either of the off-the-shelf formulations I have described. It appears to be somewhere between water and hot syrup, I'd say. Anyway - maybe that's where "5 coats" of West comes from? That could well be what's recommended for their stuff.

Incidentally, last weekend I killed the dregs of a 1.5-gal kit of Habitat Cast & Coat (brushable) I had bought over the winter. Being a voracious viv crafter, last night I re-upped, and bought a 2-gal kit of 307-lite (putty). Straight from the manufacturer, the 2-gal kit cost about $120. Just a point of reference to West, and your mention of ~$200/gal.

OK, hope you also find this useful and interesting. Good luck moving ahead productively, with minimal frustration and waste.
Kinstrome likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2019, 07:17 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

jgragg,

As before, I am very grateful for these greatly detailed posts. The former of the two more recent posts, the one explaining the putty versus the brushable, this post I read twice over thoroughly, because I know that this information will be invaluable as I continue making terraria / vivaria. (I have only had a moment to skim over the latter of these two posts, but I will scrutinize it more later.)

I will say, however, that I am likely not going to be able to take advantage of these substances for this particular terrarium, due to the aesthetic I am aiming for --- if, of course, I am imagining what these backgrounds of yours have the potential to look like.

This is an issue I have struggled with even during the early concepts of this project. What is an appropriate background for a scene with a dragon and a ruined castle? Those are not typical terrarium or vivarium (and definitely not paludarium) subject matter. An ordinary terrarium tries to mimic nature, not fantasy. Even the ones that incorporate fantastical elements --- like the recent fairy-garden vivarium --- do so on a smaller scale and with subjects like fairy buildings that can work easily with a natural setting.

I had thought about embedding pink foam beneath the Great Stuff foam to give the idea of a castle gate peeking through the earthen walls under which it has been buried. That was probably the nearest to a plausible setting for the dragon and the "keep" of the castle. But I didn't like the idea of another castle wall made out of another material surrounding the first castle (what one could call the "keep"), which was made out of epoxy clay.

Moss --- or a crapload of epiphytes --- along with shiny crystals is the nearest I can get to the aesthetic I am going for, which is somewhat muddy and vague. I am basing the idea of crystals and forests together off of The Sanctuary of Zi'Tah, a part of an MMORPG I played when I was much younger.

I was thinking of the intel you gave about putting moss or neoregelias here or there on the wall to help them survive. I had a bit of trouble understanding it completely. Do you think it would be a good idea for me to make a graph with divided parts so you could better point out which sections of the wall need which kinds of plant life? For instance, the last foot below the ceiling of the terrarium could have a bracket designated "A", then the foot below that as "B", etc. I would try to make it as easy as possible to see what I'm talking about.

Thanks again for the intel.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2019, 12:17 AM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

I went ahead and made a diagram anyway, because I had time:

T9 Measurements.jpg

^ "A," "B," "C," and "D" correspond to segments of the terrarium's total height from the substrate to the ceiling. I was hoping somebody could tell me something like " 'A' is exclusively for neoregelias," or " 'C' and 'D' are bad zones to mount mosses" or "All epiphytes want to be at least as high as 'C' if they want to have enough light," or something that uses those lettered zones to explain where different types of wall-mounted plants should be.

I also include a photograph of what the terrarium looks like right now, to better understand the graph, although I didn't really want to preview my whole terrarium until it was practically done:

T9 Vertical.jpg

^In case this looks like utter chaos, I'll explain a little. The dragon is what you see in all the driftwood; the castle is the gray structure that occupies the right side of the terrarium; all the black bits that look like dried lava are cut (or yet-to-be-cut) Great Stuff foam.

EDIT: Because the forum seems to adjust vertical photos to be horizontal, the dragon on the "left" half is actually on the bottom half and the castle on the "right" half is actually on the top half.

Left Arm (discarded).jpg

^This is the left arm that had been planned for part of the terrarium. It was going to be mounted above-right of the skull, and would have had its fingers spread under one of the lights, creating an interesting trick of light.

For now, though, unless I find some unforeseen way to make it work, I've decided to exclude it from the terrarium. I found great difficulty in making it look like it was really part of this dragon, when it emerges from the foam.

(A note: The pieces in the photograph would have been cut shorter than they are; otherwise, they would never have fit at all. I just never ended up cutting those pieces of driftwood, because I realize the left hand would not work.)
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 03:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Hi again,

Your graph paper chart was helpful. In short, lighting really tall vivs (I know this won't have animals, but it's a viv to me 'cause there's "life in a box") is a bitch. While some of the material (e.g. there's more linear LEDs around now) is aging, the basics of this (e.g., the inverse square rule) are still helpful:

NEHERP - Vivarium Lighting 101 - Everything you need to know, to grow plants in a live vivarium

You could also call the guy at Spectral Designs for a consultation and a custom-build quote.

Elsewhere I saw you respond to Dane's info about growing lush mosses etc. Whether or not you install fans, I think you'll want (well, need) some passive ventilation. Basically, put "some holes" (either go for technical detail, or wing it with a fudge factor) down by the substrate, preferably in the front, and some holes up top, preferably in the back.

Hand misting can be fine, but you may tire of it. And, don't you ever leave town for a while? Visit family at Christmas, go on business trips, or whatever? Maintaining, and especially establishing, a lush viv with hand misting alone is tricky - all it takes is a few dry days to set you back weeks or worse. Luckily amending your armoire to accept an automated system won't be hard. Just a little drilling and screwing. More important will be to - up front, now - install drainage. In a wood box, you need drainage! (And air flow...)

Hey FWIW I think with the dragon & castle theme (love the whimsy BTW), plants with smaller leaves are gonna look better, for the most part. There are some epiphytic ferns (e.g., Microgramma vaccinifolia), a few hardy club mosses (e.g. "peacock moss", Selaginella uncinata), a number of small-leaved vascular plants such as baby's tears, etc. And of course, plenty of true mosses.

cheers
Kinstrome likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:39 AM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

I read the NEHERP guide a while ago, although I could use a refresher and will read it again. I have some Jungle Dawn lights ready for the terrarium, if they are a wise fit for it. I probably won't be able to mount one of the vertical strips because of the cutting I've already done (all the circles made for a specific size of lamp), unless the lights I have are entirely inadequate, in which case I suppose I can seal those holes.

I have the materials to create drainage; I only have had reservations about doing so because of my experience with bulkheads in the past. In my previous large-scale terrarium, which was also wood-built, I was preeeeetty darn sure I had tightened the bulkhead to the point that it could not possibly leak. But 6 months later I noticed the wood on the outside starting to rot. In this terrarium's case, I have taken pretty good precautions against leaking in the drainage layer, so if I can install a bulkhead safely, I have no opposition to doing so. Only I fear the consequences of a not-perfectly-installed bulkhead.

On the subject of ventilation, I think that that will not be as impossible as I thought, if the PC fans that I can buy are easily hooked up to a power source and are as small as I'm thinking they are.

The misting system won't be bad, either, if I can get by with the basic Mistking system or, at most, the Ultimate. I looked up some videos on how to install it, and it doesn't seem too bad.

I agree that smaller-leaved plants will probably look better, especially because the non-plant imagery in the terrarium already requires people to squint to see what's supposed to be going on. That's part of the reason I wanted moss in the background.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 05:48 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Quote:
In my previous large-scale terrarium, which was also wood-built, I was preeeeetty darn sure I had tightened the bulkhead to the point that it could not possibly leak. But 6 months later I noticed the wood on the outside starting to rot.
A cheap insurance policy is to carry your epoxy or other waterproofing from the inside of the viv, right down & out through the bulkhead penetration, and lap it around the bottom/outside of the hole about 2".
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:34 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

A silly question: where am I putting this bulkhead? The one I have doesn't appear to have a stopper to prevent it from running all the time, so I am assuming that it's supposed to be run as a preventative against the water getting too high, and thus is positioned above the desired water line. But, of course, I have the rectangular pump access chamber that already performs roughly the same function.

Should I put this just above where the water is supposed to go to, or should I find one with a stopper on the outside and just put it "underwater" so to speak?

Also, which dimensions / stats should I look for in a PC fan, and how many do you think I will need considering the dimensions of my terrarium (roughly ~250 gallons of non-substrate open space)?
Reply With Quote
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2019, 09:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

I'll leave the fan thing to others, as I do not use them. I keep snakes; active ventilation would literally be the death of them. Passive ventilation and plenty of it, is how I roll.

I prefer bottom mounts for bulkheads, period. That way you have very little dead pool - gravity alone will just about empty you out. If you want to maintain some depth you can just install a standpipe. When I do this, I like the bulkhead out in the open (like, in the bottom of an exposed pool, and not hidden away inside the false bottom) and the standpipe not glued in, so I can just reach in & pull the plug, so to speak, and get a full-volume dump. I have even seen some guys (fish guys, in their formative years I guess?) have a strainer atop the standpipe and also some little holes or slits down near the bottom and half-way to the top, so they were pulling off different elevations of the water column. Dirty water would be skimming off the surface, and also sucking in off the bottom. This is more for hyper-messy animals like turtles. But it's also cheap insurance against clogs & overflows - there's another route out for the water, somewhere along the length of the standpipe, until the top-most strainer is also clogged & then you're done for.

I have done some tanks with rear-or side-mounted bulkheads. Those were accommodations to the shelving I was using. Since then, I always go bottom mount, and if need be I will now lift the tank on rails or stilts or whatever, so there's room for the hose and such coming out the bottom. It's just where experience has got me to; I'm sure there are plenty of guys still happy with their side or rear - or even front - mounts.

If it helps, imagine the water pressure imparted by different depths. That pressure is always working against your waterproofing materials & methods. Less pressure is better - no pressure (just humid air!) is best. At an extreme, you could form the bottom of your viv like the bottom of a shower - everything sloping towards the drain. No standing water, period. I don't go that far, but I do now shoot for minimal standing water in all new builds.

cheers
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 12:53 AM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Unfortunately, I am just about not going to be able to avoid having a standing water supply if I am going to have a waterfall working at all. If I can install a standing pipe that happens to be above the level of water necessary to maintain the waterfall, I will consider a bottom-of-the-box drainage system, although there isn't much room under the armoire to put that kind of thing.

Really, I'd like to have drainage only present beyond the water level, because of how afraid I am that a drainage port located within the "normal" water level will screw up and perhaps render the entire terrarium unusable. (And certainly render the waterfall unusable.)

Is there an inherent problem with standing water in a non-vivarium, a problem that isn't related to leaking? I've put so many layers of waterproofing agents that I would find it hard to imagine leakage occurring once the armoire is back on its feet. Does the water fester if it sits for too long, and become dangerous to the plant life?

I must say, I am very interested in the idea of a safe snake vivarium. I, too, own only snakes as far as herps go --- a ball python and a BCI --- and my history of trying to build an attractive terrarium for them is a lengthy chronicle that ultimately ended in just putting them in plain acrylic enclosures with newspaper floors, plastic hides, and no plant life whatsoever.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 01:54 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Oh, I'm sorry - in looking at the pictures of the armoire I imagined the "floor" of the display space (not the "working" space) being suspended above the void where you've got your access hole cut in the back.
  • I saw what I suppose is the framework for a drawer (2 "rings" of 1x2 looking millwork) and assumed the upper "ring" (or something in that neighborhood) was going to support a sheet of plywood.
  • That is where I'd put a bulkhead.
  • The access hole would permit access to the pump/filter, and to a sump/drain bucket or other vessel (even just a plastic shoebox could work, if it would hold enough water to produce your stream; it is critical that your vessel be large enough to hold the entire volume of system water).

Hmm. I suppose something like a vertical partition, running across the width of the armoire in that lower area, could serve your needs. The front could hold your reservoir of water. The back could house your pump (not a submesible pump, more like a canister filter). If the pump sits lower than the top of the water, I think that would keep it happier. You'd have to break the suction every time you service the pump, otherwise you've got a mess on the floor. And you'd need a dependably self-priming pump, to get the water up over the partition. But...it could work. Maybe we need some more pictures (better than thumbnails?) of the bottom end of the armoire, and some more guidance on how you hope to use it?

Quote:
Is there an inherent problem with standing water in a non-vivarium, a problem that isn't related to leaking? I've put so many layers of waterproofing agents that I would find it hard to imagine leakage occurring once the armoire is back on its feet. Does the water fester if it sits for too long, and become dangerous to the plant life?
Oh, this is a tiny naughty bit humorous. Many would answer that the inherent problem, is the water feature itself! But I would answer "no, not really". Many might also imagine a smart-assed crack like "don't let your limited imagination fool you into hoping for the best!" (Water is kind of a bastard, I will admit.) I'd say water that doesn't have stuff leaching into it, and that is being used and acted on by aerobic life forms, does not tend to fester. Particularly if there is some agitation, and plenty of air contact. You could, if you wanted, put in an inline charcoal canister (or use a canister filter for your pump). That would remove odors and colors from the water.

cheers
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 03:25 AM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

I'm going to attempt to link photographs with Imgur, although that hasn't worked well all of the time, because of some stupid crap Imgur does in which it doesn't let me load images from my laptop or phone. (it's the main reason I use the in-forum system of photo linking.)

Some of these photos will probably be unintentionally sideways, but I can't change that because I can't re-take some photos.



^This is the armoire when the only things that had been done to it were cutting out the shelves (which is what I assume you mean by "drawers") and using the boards from one of the shelves to create a barrier to contain the drainage layer / substrate layer. Some notes to clarify what you're seeing:
  • The three open circles you see cut into the back wall are NOT in any way related to the project. They were presumably created by the armoire-builders in order to allow power cords through the different shelf layers (which makes NO sense given how old this piece of furniture otherwise appears to be). Since the time of this photograph, they have been sealed shut completely and waterproofed several times over.
  • The rectangle that allows access to the waterfall pump has not been cut yet.
  • I assume what you mean by "rings" are the remains of the shelves, which had to be jig saw'd out because they were neither removable nor desired. If that is what you are referring to, there are two of them. The lower of the two --- which closely lines up with the vertical barrier that I put up in the front of the armoire --- is more or less the demarcation line for the substrate.

Now, the next photograph --- which is not that good, but which couldn't be any better considering that the armoire is on its side right now --- has the waterfall pump's rectangle-shaped opening:



(Okay, maybe that photo could have been taken a little bit better, but my hands are shaky right now.)

What you see in this photo, at about the middle, are the waterfall pump dangling by its serrated hose, and the power cord dangling from the pump. That rectangle that the serrated hose is passing through is the rectangular opening I'm referring to. It starts about ~4.5 inches off of the floor of the armoire (to the left of it in this picture) and ends about 3 inches below the first cut-out shelf.

Now here are front-and-back photographs of what the eggcrate / PVC pipe / mosquito netting part of the false bottom are going to look like:




It's a basic eggcrate + PVC + filtering material setup, but I created an extra box to protect the pump from the substrate while also allowing water to pass easily into it.

(I'm waiting for the "holy crap, you need to start all over" shoe to drop!)

I can see how, if water purity is the goal, this is not a perfect solution. I will say that I've zip-tied several layers of mosquito netting to each segment of eggcrate, but I am not so foolish to think that that means no particles, ever, will make their way to the waterfall pump. That's why I left the serrated hose loose, so I can pull the pump out and clean it out once in a while.

I'm not quite sure how I could create a vertical partition in this particular terrarium even if I started all over with the drainage layer and scrapped everything drainage-related that I did so far. My reason for saying this is that the whole surface of the ground is going to be ground, and even though the waterfall is only supposed to land in one place, likely the water from misting and from whatever else is going to seep into the drainage layer from every part of the substrate. I may be misunderstanding, though.

Thank you again for another detailed response. I know dealing with all these questions must be trying, and I am very grateful for your indulging my concerns and answering them. Have a good one !
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 07:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Oh, these pictures & text are most instructive, thanks.

Quote:
(I'm waiting for the "holy crap, you need to start all over" shoe to drop!)
Nope, not gonna happen! I can definitely see your setup working. I would strongly recommend some energetic leak-testing ASAP however - does your sealed wooden basin hold water? If you discover you have a problem, might I suggest "going nuclear" - go get yourself a piece of pond liner e.g., EPDM.

Quote:
I assume what you mean by "rings" are the remains of the shelves, which had to be jig saw'd out because they were neither removable nor desired. If that is what you are referring to, there are two of them. The lower of the two --- which closely lines up with the vertical barrier that I put up in the front of the armoire --- is more or less the demarcation line for the substrate.
Yes, I see now. They looked like the sort of wooden rails old-school chests of drawers used. I assume when you say "demarcation line" you mean the top or "finish" elevation of the substrate.

Here's what may be a jarring few questions. Do you need an organic substrate? Heck, do you even need a particulate substrate? Using something inorganic will help maintain water quality - "don't make tea!". Could you get away with something as simple as a centimeter of TurfAce? Or maybe even something like artificial turf right atop your screen? If weight is not a concern, how about pea gravel or larger cobbles? Or angular stones of...whatever size seems right for your application? Many cliffs have a steep colluvial deposit below them - a talus ramp, if you will.

Something motivating the questions - that height (even with ZERO intervening objects like branches, leaves etc) is hard to light adequately for ground-stratum live plants. And, as your upper-strata plants mature and grow, the shade down low will deepen into a true gloom. What if you let that problem just go away? Just have plants mounted on the background, sides (if you wish) and maybe on some branches? And turn the bug (the gloom) into a feature (some fantasy Hell-land, or where the Dwarves or Gollum live, or some such?).

cheers
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jgragg For This Useful Post:
Kinstrome (05-14-2019)
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 07:55 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Glad to hear the eggcrate doesn't need to be re-done Cutting all those eggcrate pieces to the unusual contours of the armoire's interior was a hassle and made a huge mess in what is not really even my living room to make a mess in.

As far as surface plants go: it is true that I could make an inorganic surface feasible except for one feature of this terrarium that I only briefly touched on: the ficus retusa.

[I can't load a non-thumbnail pic of the retusa because I'm typing on my laptop and it is mysteriously impossible for Imgur to load images, even though my laptop and my PC are virtually the same in every meaningful way.

There is a sideways pic earlier in the thread, though.]


The very original premise of this terrarium, which preceded all others, was of a ruined castle being consumed by a living plant. I was advised on this board to get ficus microcarpa, but I settled on retusa for price-related reasons.

Because evidently retusa dislikes being saturated in water, I was going to build it on a mound inside the castle ... it's kind of complicated to explain, or to convey a faithful mental picture of what it's supposed to look like. Basically, I wanted the tree to grow through the intricate interior of the castle under a Jungle Dawn "mega spotlight" (or two), and the mound of earth would both aid in the tree not being saturated by the water in the rest of the substrate and aid also in it getting enough light from the Jungle Dawn light.

That's 100% theory. I recognize that that isn't exactly a scientific strategy for making the plant grow safely. I had also heard recently, from you or someone else, that fertilizer isn't a good idea.

I could make the entire substrate except for the tree part just be river stones, the relatively inexpensive kind that I photographed earlier in the thread. Although that would be attractive in some way, I don't know if that's really the look I'm going for. Besides, I already have something like 10 gallons of ABG mix* ready right now. Plus many gallons of already-frozen magnolia leaves for leaf litter / springtail food.

*I wanted to say, I have NO IDEA about whether or not ABG mix is suitable substrate for a ficus tree like the one I am going to put in. I wasn't able to find that information, probably because not that many people want to put bonsai trees inside their terrariums.

EDIT: I should clarify about the water testing: I think I said something misleading about the waterproofing testing that I've done. I have tested it two separate times, but I haven't done the final test for ~48 hours that confirms it's watertight. In both of the tests, I discovered leaks, which I then siliconed and epoxy'd. I will see what's up in the final test.

The good news was that it was hole-related leaks, and not water seeping through the wood. Well, I guess that's good news.

EDIT: Not to make a long post longer, but I wanted also to acknowledge the point about lighting substrate-level plants. I was planning to create the "sunken" look that my other terrarium has, by which I mean, I was going to cheat and use a tradescantia / wandering jew-like plant that just about can't die and covers the ground quickly. My other terrarium has this plant growing all the way from the ground, 4 feet down, and it's using a bulb with less than half the illuminance that this Jungle Dawn bulb evidently has.

Not a long-term strategy, clearly, but I can always remove it if it truly takes over.

Last edited by Kinstrome; 05-14-2019 at 08:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:33 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

OK, you're going for some kind of Angkor Wat / Tikal look, with the banyan coming out of the ruin. I get that. Should be fun.

No woody ficus I know of likes wet feet.

Nope, I didn't say anything about fertilizer. I'm not sure - given there will be no animals - why that would be a terrible idea. If used lightly - ideally, only apply as much as the plant will consume. I expect you'd like some rapid growth up to desired size, then you'll back off the food and prune aggressively, so as to +/- bonsai it.

Quote:
*I wanted to say, I have NO IDEA about whether or not ABG mix is suitable substrate for a ficus tree like the one I am going to put in. I wasn't able to find that information, probably because not that many people want to put bonsai trees inside their terrariums.
I think it'll love it. Non-compacting, moisture holding, and well drained? Few plants don't appreciate those attributes. Certainly not terrestrial ones from the humid tropics.

Idea - most woody ficus have pretty assertive aerial adventitious roots. You could build into the background, suitable colonization sites (pockets of terrestrial substrate, or, some cork mosaic with moss packed between the cork bits). Eventually you could wind up with a very exotic "strangler fig" kind of look, with woody, weaving, barked roots creeping all over.
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 10:16 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Before I get going any further, I wanted to ask --- is there any problem with just using aquarium safe silicone to stick moss on the GS foam and create a moss-wall (with some epiphytes on cork bits) ? It seems kind of harebrained, and I haven't run the idea past anybody. It's not totally too late for me to just line the whole background with cork flats to support moss, if that's what's needed, but that would be tough and I'm not sure it would look quite right.

Anyway!

Thanks for the input, I'm much more confident about the ABG mix for the tree.

Yeah, I'm sort of going for the Angkor Wat look in concept, but not the exact banyan-over-asian-ruins kind. The castle is meant to look a tad more like a European fantasy castle. But yes, it is meant to have the plant peeking through the different cracks and ruined areas of the castle, and if the aerial roots want to take over the bottom parts, I have no problem with that.

I'd like the roots to do that, but I guess I'll need cork bark at the base to make it work. For that matter, is it necessary to have cork for the moss to stay stable and alive, or can the moss just be supported by silicone, get its light and misting, and survive? I want to know before I appear with a pic of a moss-covered wall and hear, "...yeah, that's probably all going to die."
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2019, 06:01 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 408
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 51 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Quote:
is there any problem with just using aquarium safe silicone to stick moss on the GS foam and create a moss-wall (with some epiphytes on cork bits) ?
Well, no. I happen to think there are better ways to do it, though. More below. In short, I hate the way silicone shines through, once whatever you've stuck to it wears off. It's f*ckin ugly is all.

Quote:
It's not totally too late for me to just line the whole background with cork flats to support moss, if that's what's needed, but that would be tough and I'm not sure it would look quite right.
Also not necessary, and I happen to agree with your aesthetic instincts. More below.

Quote:
But yes, it is meant to have the plant peeking through the different cracks and ruined areas of the castle, and if the aerial roots want to take over the bottom parts, I have no problem with that.

I'd like the roots to do that, but I guess I'll need cork bark at the base to make it work. For that matter, is it necessary to have cork for the moss to stay stable and alive, or can the moss just be supported by silicone, get its light and misting, and survive?
OK, so, once again I'm giving this just a portion of my attention, and I'm also not quite able to resolve a picture of your final product in my imagination. Specifically, the relative height of the castle (halfway up the back? a third?) and how far towards the front it sticks (and how much light will get down there past it).

Anyway - of more immediate import - I suggest a "cork mosaic" using cork pieces, and intentional gaps just friction-stuffed with dead horticultural long-fiber sphagnum (LFS). For example the compressed stuff for sale on Glassbox Tropicals. Or the cheap bales you can get in the garden section of WalMart. Whichever. (The cheap stuff throws more "volunteers", the fancier stuff is pretty well killed dead, which gives you an easier blank canvas, if you like.) So you would silicone or otherwise adhere the cork bits, and just stuff the cracks a few days later with your LFS. The LFS, if adequately misted, dripped, whatever, will support live moss & other plants. It will also be happily invaded by adventitious roots of anything growing nearby (broms, epiphyic ferns, orchids, ficus, etc etc). You can mount many of those to the nearby cork. And, some mosses will venture out onto the cork. The margins at least, if you're niggardly with water. If you're generous some may cover most of the cork. But at that point, you're disadvantaging many other plants, so...I wouldn't aim for that. The LFS holds water great, if you just soak it once a day the moss will be stoked.

The key thing to remember is, moss needs light too! Hence my questions about overall layout, where's this castle going, etc. Another big thing - moss grows best on organic surfaces. Jeez, with enough light and frequent watering you can get it to grow on glass for God's sake, but do it a favor and offer it something more conducive. It will reward you with faster growth, better coverage, better resilience to vagaries of watering etc etc etc.

Hope this quick note is more helpful than confusing.

cheers
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:07 PM
Kinstrome's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Orleans, Louisiana, US
Posts: 357
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 32
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: ~330 gallon terrarium setup. (+ some questions)

Quote:
I'm also not quite able to resolve a picture of your final product in my imagination. Specifically, the relative height of the castle (halfway up the back? a third?) and how far towards the front it sticks (and how much light will get down there past it).
That's a good question for the both of us! I really don't have a clear idea of how the light will interact with the whole castle installed, and that's because:
  1. Part of the castle had to be installed while the armoire was on its back, and it hasn't been on its feet since then.
  2. It's not reasonable to lift the armoire all the way up to standing without someone else's help.
  3. The JD "mega spotlights" that provide a crapload of light can only really be tested over the castle while the armoire is standing, because they're in wire fixtures that don't fix to the hole in the wall like the broad floodlights + solid fixtures do.

What I suspect is that about 4 of the 6 ceiling lights will reach the right wall (which is the wall most blocked by the castle) in some capacity, some being blocked by some castle bits but not by others, others passing through those castle bits but being blocked elsewhere.

It is unfortunate, though, that without taking very good video footage (with a tripod or something) that curves around the castle, it is really hard to give a good idea of what the castle looks like. It is a thoroughly three-dimensional object. I wouldn't want someone to bore themselves, either, scrutinizing a video of ... a clay castle, moving back and forth.

Quote:
Anyway - of more immediate import - I suggest a "cork mosaic" using cork pieces, and intentional gaps just friction-stuffed with dead horticultural long-fiber sphagnum (LFS). For example the compressed stuff for sale on Glassbox Tropicals. Or the cheap bales you can get in the garden section of WalMart. Whichever. (The cheap stuff throws more "volunteers", the fancier stuff is pretty well killed dead, which gives you an easier blank canvas, if you like.) So you would silicone or otherwise adhere the cork bits, and just stuff the cracks a few days later with your LFS.
I had done a little research into the cork mosaic a year or two ago, whenever I mostly lurked here. It seems like a neat idea, and I have a great supply of cork flats and LFS to work it, but I ran aground trying to understand it, both then and now:

Quote:
The LFS, if adequately misted, dripped, whatever, will support live moss & other plants.
I'm not quite sure I understood how a bunch of loose strands of sphagnum keep a patch of moss in place?

[I should clarify something I had been meaning to post about, that is: I'm planning to use the many mosses that live naturally around Louisiana, which I put in a large pot, clean for 24 hours in water, and wring out and put in sealed plastic bags (which are put under light, of course).

So my moss is mostly in living patches, not the Dusk slurry, etc. if that's a problem?]


It just seems like the moss --- the desired moss, not the LFS that roots it there --- is likely to just plop out of the mosaic cracks, which are going to be already partially filled by LFS.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. The mosaic has always sounded wonderful, except for this one hangup.

[Another sidenote if you care, which I'm going to find an interesting color for in order to delineate the different thoughts in this big post:

I have an old "moss bank" I've mostly forgotten about, in completely airtight / watertight Ziploc-brand plastic boxes. They are outside, but they get pretty limited light, being stacked on top of one another. This is where I am confused about the moss / light matter: even with limited light, they EXPLODED in growth. Like, I have never seen moss anywhere in real life that has done as well as these mosses. I'll post a photograph later if that will clarify why this is the case.]
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
clay, driftwood, moss-netting, tree, waterfall

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Guide to Popular Terrarium Plants Frogtofall Plants 54 08-20-2014 10:16 AM
220 Gallon PDF setup Mopeytitan Beginner Discussion 44 02-04-2013 12:45 PM
Juvi Red Eye Setup Questions Katiebee Tree frogs 4 09-16-2012 03:06 PM
fan setup - questions dfrmav Parts & Construction 8 12-26-2011 12:27 AM
Changing my terrarium setup abyrd19 Beginner Discussion 1 02-27-2010 07:24 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.