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Old 01-09-2019, 09:47 AM
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Default drainage layer

right nearly got all the stuff to start my build
do you really need a drainage layer if so how deep
thanks for any help
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Old 01-09-2019, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

Yes, you really do need a drainage layer. Especially if you use an automatic mister. The layer should be deep enough to trap water and prevent it from touching or sucking up into the soil. Probably 2 at least.

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Old 01-09-2019, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by SoloSK71 View Post
Yes, you really do need a drainage layer. Especially if you use an automatic mister. The layer should be deep enough to trap water and prevent it from touching or sucking up into the soil. Probably 2 at least.

Solo
many thanks for that solo
so got to get a bit more clay balls for the drainage layer then get started
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

Or use egg crating and pvc to build the drainage layer.

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...se-bottom.html



some comments

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Old 01-09-2019, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

Coming from an aquarium background, one of the things I like about the drainage layer is the opportunity for anaerobic bacteria to complete the denitrification cycle. And the appearance is just nice in my opinion.

Solo
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Old 01-09-2019, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

Yes you need one. Depth depends on hydro balls vs false bottom along with type of substrate. You want to avoid wicking.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by Ed View Post
Or use egg crating and pvc to build the drainage layer.

https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...se-bottom.html



some comments

Ed
This is what I do. Works well.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

Black Matala filter matt.
Light end effective.

I shudder to think how heavy my vivarium would be with balls, especially with the Turface substrate.

It's stand is on casters, and I need to wheel it out of the room now and then.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Black Matala filter mat.
...
Its stand is on casters ... to wheel it out of the room now and then.
This is what I do, for a whole room's worth of vivs. Works like a dream. Light and mobile. "Also makes moving suck a little bit less." Ha ha ha.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:07 AM
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Default Re: drainage layer

False bottoms 100%, way more benefits / convenience than the bio balls or whatever else is used.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

Putting matala under abg mix would be a bad move imo.

You do not want water touching your substrate. You might be ok with turface on top, but I def wouldn't do abg. You want separation from your substrate. Abg you need more distance due to wicking while turface you can get away with a shorter distance.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

What I do is an eggcrate false, but I leave a little gap around the sides. I fill this gap with grow stones that I ph neutralized. Then I add window screen then turface mvp. My false bottom is roughly 2" tall with an 1" space between my substrate and water level. Super light
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by S2G View Post
What I do is an eggcrate false, but I leave a little gap around the sides. I fill this gap with grow stones that I ph neutralized. Then I add window screen then turface mvp. My false bottom is roughly 2" tall with an 1" space between my substrate and water level. Super light
hi not been on this forum for long so some of what the American name things
I still got to learn what they would be called here in the uk
so what are grow stones and turface mvp
sorry don't want to sound rude about this so forgive me if it seems that way

Last edited by ds51; 01-10-2019 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by ds51 View Post
hi not been on this forum for long so some of what the American name things
I still got to learn what they would be called here in the uk
so what are grow stones and turface mvp
sorry don't want to sound rude about this so forgive me if it seems that way
Your fine. I'm not even sure what they would be in the uk.

Grow stones are recycled glass used in hydroponics. I use gs-1
Growstone | : Sustainable products for horticulture, container gardening and outdoor living

Turface is an infield conditioner. Fire clay
https://www.turface.com/products/inf...nditioners/mvp

Below are pics. The growstones are the gray on the bottom right of the little exoterra
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 0920181939a_Film1.jpg (71.1 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 0830182203.jpg (52.6 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by S2G; 01-10-2019 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:42 PM
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Default

Are either of these layers needed if you have a drilled bottom for drainage?
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

Egg crate false bottom starts like this
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by Captain Awesome View Post
Are either of these layers needed if you have a drilled bottom for drainage?
You want standing water in the bottom. IMy bottom is drilled also but to drain when it gets closer to the substrate.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by S2G View Post
Putting matala under abg mix would be a bad move imo.

You do not want water touching your substrate. You might be ok with turface on top, but I def wouldn't do abg. You want separation from your substrate. Abg you need more distance due to wicking while turface you can get away with a shorter distance.
The black matala is very open and will not wick...and I use 2 sheets.
Makes for a tall drainage layer that way, but also puts the top of the substrate even with the lateral black bar on the Exo.
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:14 AM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by JimM View Post
The black matala is very open and will not wick...and I use 2 sheets.
Makes for a tall drainage layer that way, but also puts the top of the substrate even with the lateral black bar on the Exo.
I've used it a couple times but it just didn't perform as well as my false bottom tanks. Plus its pretty expensive. I was looking at doing a 40b with it but it was like $45 for a mat while my false bottom was $25 for everything with a lot left over. On my old tank the substrate stayed wet from the bottom when you views through the glass. I used it all the time in my fish filters

Its been around a long time.
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...atala-mat.html
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Old 01-11-2019, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: drainage layer

Quote:
Originally Posted by S2G View Post
Your fine. I'm not even sure what they would be in the uk.

Grow stones are recycled glass used in hydroponics. I use gs-1
Growstone | : Sustainable products for horticulture, container gardening and outdoor living

Turface is an infield conditioner. Fire clay
https://www.turface.com/products/inf...nditioners/mvp

Below are pics. The growstones are the gray on the bottom right of the little exoterra
thanks for that the grow stones we call clay balls I looked up the turface its a calcined clay not come across this before
thanks for your reply
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: drainage layer

sorry my brain is still asleep
must people here use clay ball
what you have in your viv is called glass chippings here
which we can get in different colours
nice viv's btw
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:31 AM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by S2G View Post
You want standing water in the bottom. IMy bottom is drilled also but to drain when it gets closer to the substrate.
why do you need standing water in the bottom
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by S2G View Post
Egg crate false bottom starts like this
how high have you done this from the bottom
would like to see the finished vivarium you did this for
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by ds51 View Post
why do you need standing water in the bottom
Standing water in the bottom gives you a leg up on controlling humidity. With standing water in the bottom alone, I have read on this board that you can keep a tank at 60% humidity. This is the bottom end of the range that you want, but is a good starting point. It makes it so that you can have a bit more ventilation (which is good for most plants) while still keeping higher humidity. If you have no standing water, you need to pay a lot more attention to humidity levels in other ways. It's not impossible without standing water, but with it, it increases your margin for error.

Mark
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by ds51 View Post
how high have you done this from the bottom
would like to see the finished vivarium you did this for
The height of my false bottoms usually is limited by how low I can get a bulkhead on the back glass. I should also say that, in order to preserve as much usable tank volume as possible, I try to minimize the height of the false bottom. If I wasn't going to do a bulkhead, I would just make sure to get at least a half or full inch between where you plan to have your water level and the bottom of the false bottom layer. It reduces the possibility of wicking. This possibility increases over time as you get increased root material down there. You don't want to cut that margin too thin or you might develop wicking eventually. This is especially a concern if you plan on using ABG or something similar as substrate. I don't worry about it quite as much because I use Turface.

Mark
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by ds51 View Post
how high have you done this from the bottom
would like to see the finished vivarium you did this for
Im not sure the exact height. What I did was silicone 1" std pvc couplings to the bottom then place the eggcrate on that. Around 2" I'd say. I used small river rocks to make the bottom of the stream through the middle (standing water) to avoid having to raise the height.

You cant really see the bottom, but here it is a few months ago still growing in.
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File Type: jpg 1226182121_Film1.jpg (85.8 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg 1219182102_Film1.jpg (86.6 KB, 22 views)
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Last edited by S2G; 01-11-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Originally Posted by S2G View Post
Im not sure the exact height. What I did was silicone 1" std pvc couplings to the bottom then place the eggcrate on that. Around 2" I'd say. I used small river rocks to make the bottom of the stream through the middle (standing water) to avoid having to raise the height.

You cant really see the bottom, but here it is a few months ago still growing in.
many thanks for info the vivarium is looking good will look grate as time goes on I am sure
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:01 PM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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many thanks for info the vivarium is looking good will look grate as time goes on I am sure
You're welcome and thanks. I'm not near as talented as a lot of other members with vivarium layout, but I enjoy it.

Here's the same general concept, but by a more talented person. Notice how he used a much taller false bottom to accommodate shrimp etc.
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...ed-8-19-a.html

Last edited by S2G; 01-11-2019 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 01-11-2019, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by S2G View Post
You're welcome and thanks. I'm not near as talented as a lot of other members with vivarium layout, but I enjoy it.

Here's the same general concept, but by a more talented person. Notice how he used a much taller false bottom to accommodate shrimp etc.
https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/pa...ed-8-19-a.html
well I got to try my hand at doing something yet
but as you say as long as you enjoying do it that is all that matters
and you think it look good
and thanks you for all your replies and info
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:37 AM
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Default Re: drainage layer

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Quote:
Originally Posted by S2G View Post
Putting matala under abg mix would be a bad move imo.

You do not want water touching your substrate. You might be ok with turface on top, but I def wouldn't do abg. You want separation from your substrate. Abg you need more distance due to wicking while turface you can get away with a shorter distance.

************************************************** *******
The black matala is very open and will not wick...and I use 2 sheets.
Makes for a tall drainage layer that way, but also puts the top of the substrate even with the lateral black bar on the Exo.
Matala doesn't wick. You don't need much of an air gap between the top of the water and the bottom of your substrate. As mentioned by someone here, with a ton of root growth you might get some water wicking up the roots if you go too short on your gap - 1 cm or less maybe? Using common sense I have always had zero problems combining Matala and ABG. 2 cm of gap is plenty, perhaps overkill.

Observing the "leave at least a full hole-diameter's worth of glass remaining between a drilled hole, and the edge of the drilled pane", I sometimes use one sheet thickness of Matala, sometimes two. Depends on the size of the bulkhead I'm using, and thus the size of the hole I had to drill.

Quote:
The height of my false bottoms usually is limited by how low I can get a bulkhead on the back glass. I should also say that, in order to preserve as much usable tank volume as possible, I try to minimize the height of the false bottom.
Yep, exactly. Put in the smallest bulkhead you can, so you can drill the smallest hole you can, as low as you can. Just use a bulkhead that's bigger than all your inlet tubes combined! A 1/2" drain allows for using a single thickness of Matala (which comes 1.5" thick), and having almost 1/2" of air gap if you use a small hole saw. Here's a BH/hole saw sizing chart:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/instr...rrect-bulkhead

Also worth noting - you can always combine media. For example one layer of Matala, plus a little bit of LECA below it. Just to get enough air gap.

Good luck, OP!
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