Mist king problem ; ground too wet. - Dendroboard
Dendroboard

Go Back   Dendroboard > Vivariums > Parts & Construction
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Advertise

Support Our Sponsors
No Threads to Display.

facebook

Like Tree6Likes
  • 1 Post By kimcmich
  • 1 Post By Socratic Monologue
  • 4 Post By Dane

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2018, 07:42 PM
J_w35's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

So I recently installed a mist king and have it set to go off 3x a day for 10min. I have 2 nozzles installed on a 18x18x24 viv. One in the back left pointing towards the doors and one in the front right towards the back of the viv. Both nozzles are pointing up away from the ground however. All the plants that the nozzles are directly facing I seem to notice get really dry in between mists. Normally I would just raise the amount of misting but my soil I noticed is completely drenched and find puddles of dirt. All plants I have on the ground are wet pretty much 24/7. I have a leave litter that holds most of the water but the soil still gets soaked. Wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to fix this please let me know thank you!
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2018, 08:24 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 701
Thanks: 4
Thanked 108 Times in 100 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Greetings,

3x a day for 10 minutes is a looong mist. If you're seeing dry plants between cycles like that you might be over-ventilating the tank. If you have fans, cut down on their flow. If you're using passive ventilation, you might want to adjust your vents. I assume you have a drain in this viv, right?

You could also consider more frequent misting at shorter duration. Going off for 1 minute every 2 hours should be enough to keep most vivs very wet.
viper69 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2018, 08:26 PM
J_w35's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimcmich View Post
Greetings,

3x a day for 10 minutes is a looong mist. If you're seeing dry plants between cycles like that you might be over-ventilating the tank. If you have fans, cut down on their flow. If you're using passive ventilation, you might want to adjust your vents. I assume you have a drain in this viv, right?

You could also consider more frequent misting at shorter duration. Going off for 1 minute every 2 hours should be enough to keep most vivs very wet.
I do have a drainage system. I don't have any fans. just a screen lid. i will try to cover it up with glass or maybe a towel to try to keep the ventilation down. I will also adjust the misting cycles. Thank you!
Reply With Quote
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2018, 09:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 701
Thanks: 4
Thanked 108 Times in 100 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

One more note: My advice assumes your misters are actually watering all the plants when they are on. Are you sure the plants that seem dry are getting wet (to their roots) when the misters run? If not, you need to adjust your nozzle positions or consider more nozzles.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2018, 10:47 PM
J_w35's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kimcmich View Post
One more note: My advice assumes your misters are actually watering all the plants when they are on. Are you sure the plants that seem dry are getting wet (to their roots) when the misters run? If not, you need to adjust your nozzle positions or consider more nozzles.
hmm I don't think the misting is missing the plants, but it wouldn't hurt to try to adjust them. Ill give it a shot definitely
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2018, 12:49 PM
Josh Ramish's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 20
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

i think 10mins is way to much. i do 20 sec at a time 5 times a day. my plants seem to do fine. But i would experiment to see what works best with your vivs.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2018, 01:44 PM
J_w35's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Ramish View Post
i think 10mins is way to much. i do 20 sec at a time 5 times a day. my plants seem to do fine. But i would experiment to see what works best with your vivs.
Gotcha, I did adjust it so i will see how it goes. Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-29-2018, 11:01 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 304
Thanks: 77
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

I also have an 18x18x24, with a newly installed second Mistking nozzle.
Sounds like your screen top has gotta go. Here I thought I was misting heavily at 6 or 8 times daily from 5 to 20 seconds each, but that was up until just a couple days ago when I installed a second nozzle and an internal fan to replace my forced ventilation fan. Now I've dialed back to a 35 second mist in the morning, followed by a 10 second mist 12 hours later, and a 5 second shot a few hours after that, which so far still seems a bit wet. I have 1.5" of screen across the width above the background, & the rest is glass. Running a 40mm internal fan on & off, totalling around 8 hours daily.

Try partially covering your top in cling wrap or something that will hold humidity while you get your new glass top & screen figured out.

I've been running mine for about a year now, and I haven't had to drain it yet!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2018, 12:00 AM
J_w35's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by serial hobbiest View Post
I also have an 18x18x24, with a newly installed second Mistking nozzle.
Sounds like your screen top has gotta go. Here I thought I was misting heavily at 6 or 8 times daily from 5 to 20 seconds each, but that was up until just a couple days ago when I installed a second nozzle and an internal fan to replace my forced ventilation fan. Now I've dialed back to a 35 second mist in the morning, followed by a 10 second mist 12 hours later, and a 5 second shot a few hours after that, which so far still seems a bit wet. I have 1.5" of screen across the width above the background, & the rest is glass. Running a 40mm internal fan on & off, totalling around 8 hours daily.

Try partially covering your top in cling wrap or something that will hold humidity while you get your new glass top & screen figured out.

I've been running mine for about a year now, and I haven't had to drain it yet!
Thank you! I will try getting a glass top. Is there anywhere that custom makes glass tops that you know of. My local home depot won't custom cut plexiglass. Thanks for the feedback I will definitely give it a shot!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2018, 02:07 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Colorado
Posts: 44
Thanks: 6
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Lowes does glass cutting and has a thin glass that will work fine for a top. Or, you can google local glass companies and order a custom size that will fit perfectly. I have had good luck with this route and it is fairly inexpensive. If you are looking for 3/16 glass, you can get a couple pieces for a top for under $10.

I was previously warned, and can now attest, plexiglass is not good for a top. The heat of the lamp, even LED, will warp the plastic and make it cloudy so that it doesn't fit properly. Stick with glass.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-30-2018, 03:01 PM
Socratic Monologue's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Central WI
Posts: 790
Thanks: 33
Thanked 86 Times in 81 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc_hammy View Post
I was previously warned, and can now attest, plexiglass is not good for a top. The heat of the lamp, even LED, will warp the plastic and make it cloudy so that it doesn't fit properly. Stick with glass.
Odd as it may seem, it is the moisture that warps acrylic. That's why it always bows away from the moist side (because the moist side expands). If it were heat, the warm side (top side) would expand, making a dome shape on the top of the enclosure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_w35 View Post
Is there anywhere that custom makes glass tops that you know of.
If you can't find anywhere locally, you might try this online shop:

www.onedayglass.com

I've not ordered viv tops from them (I use acrylic over screen and simply tolerate the minor bowing), but I have gotten tempered aquarium tops from them and been pleased.
JPP likes this.
__________________
"People are like plants, they grow toward the light."
- Hope Jahren
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2018, 09:09 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Buellton, CA
Posts: 126
Thanks: 22
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

My experience with acrylic says that it mostly warps because of gravity and pressure, not specifically because of moisture or heat for that matter. While both can be an indirect cause of a low or high pressure system, heat and moisture donít seem to play as big of an impact on warping acrylic as much as gravity does. If that were the case my entire enclosure would be warping at this point and not just/solely my modular/hanging lid sections.

Based off of descriptions of the problem... I would adjust my nozzles. Turn them on, let them run and move them around until you see at least the majority of your plants gathering some moisture on their leaves. If you have fans, I would turn them on while the misters are running as well. Just to see how it affects the overall coverage.

It sounds like you have a bunch of water flowing through this tank but not much water being collected by anything more than soil, which, if you had terrestrial and possibly aquarium based plants, it wouldnít be much of a problem, given the water going in isnít too much for them ... however, under the visuals you want your leaves to be able to gather some water as well... not just terrestrial roots that donít exist.

Also, air circulation is HUGE, often times more=better, but because we are dealing with rainforest simulated environments, there is such thing as too much and it can cause too much drying. This is up for speculation as well as it would depend on the plants and animals living in the enclosure but, Iím sure you get what I mean.

Like the previous posts suggest, I too would mention, at least reducing the surface area of your screen top and closing it up to be at least 3/4 covered with the front quarter open.

Another think is that if this enclosure is an exo terra, their screen tops are extremely susceptible to rust. I would honestly remove and replace the whole top.

Iím also not sure of what you are using for substrate. Iím personally using turface. Without getting into what it does for microfauna and frogs (there are at least a couple threads on this forum dedicated to this topic)... Anything planted in the ground is basically grown hydroponically.. no Ďdirtí, instead a semi-fine clay gravel. It allows EXCELLENT drainage when used in tandem with an overflow outlet.

Apologies if this is too forward and matter of fact, we are just trying to help. We as individuals want to succeed but, it is also very important to us that the hobby itself succeeds and want to offer as much info as possible without resolving its integrity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2018, 03:10 PM
J_w35's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eruantien View Post
My experience with acrylic says that it mostly warps because of gravity and pressure, not specifically because of moisture or heat for that matter. While both can be an indirect cause of a low or high pressure system, heat and moisture don’t seem to play as big of an impact on warping acrylic as much as gravity does. If that were the case my entire enclosure would be warping at this point and not just/solely my modular/hanging lid sections.

Based off of descriptions of the problem... I would adjust my nozzles. Turn them on, let them run and move them around until you see at least the majority of your plants gathering some moisture on their leaves. If you have fans, I would turn them on while the misters are running as well. Just to see how it affects the overall coverage.

It sounds like you have a bunch of water flowing through this tank but not much water being collected by anything more than soil, which, if you had terrestrial and possibly aquarium based plants, it wouldn’t be much of a problem, given the water going in isn’t too much for them ... however, under the visuals you want your leaves to be able to gather some water as well... not just terrestrial roots that don’t exist.

Also, air circulation is HUGE, often times more=better, but because we are dealing with rainforest simulated environments, there is such thing as too much and it can cause too much drying. This is up for speculation as well as it would depend on the plants and animals living in the enclosure but, I’m sure you get what I mean.

Like the previous posts suggest, I too would mention, at least reducing the surface area of your screen top and closing it up to be at least 3/4 covered with the front quarter open.

Another think is that if this enclosure is an exo terra, their screen tops are extremely susceptible to rust. I would honestly remove and replace the whole top.

I’m also not sure of what you are using for substrate. I’m personally using turface. Without getting into what it does for microfauna and frogs (there are at least a couple threads on this forum dedicated to this topic)... Anything planted in the ground is basically grown hydroponically.. no ‘dirt’, instead a semi-fine clay gravel. It allows EXCELLENT drainage when used in tandem with an overflow outlet.

Apologies if this is too forward and matter of fact, we are just trying to help. We as individuals want to succeed but, it is also very important to us that the hobby itself succeeds and want to offer as much info as possible without resolving its integrity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not a problem at all I greatly appreciate it any feedback is good feedback. I did adjust the nozzles, and reset my mister to 5x a day for 10 seconds. I think my main problems were too much ventilation, and misting too much. I am also looking into getting a glass top for the exo terra and a 14mm fan. my substrate is a mixture of peat moss and eco earth. Again thank you very much! I will look into any possible solutions!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2018, 04:05 PM
Dane's Avatar
Mod
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,402
Thanks: 143
Thanked 226 Times in 173 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eruantien View Post
My experience with acrylic says that it mostly warps because of gravity and pressure, not specifically because of moisture or heat for that matter. While both can be an indirect cause of a low or high pressure system, heat and moisture donít seem to play as big of an impact on warping acrylic as much as gravity does. If that were the case my entire enclosure would be warping at this point and not just/solely my modular/hanging lid sections.
Gravity and pressure? Never heard that one before...I guess it could happen if your lid was large, thin, and unsupported (aside from the rim), or you were somehow maintaining an airtight and independently pressurized interior or exterior, but normally...
acrylic warps, as Socratic Monologue said, due to humidity differences between interior and exterior surfaces. The reason that acrylic aquariums maintain their shape is that all edges are bonded to each other, allowing no place for the material to expand or contract unevenly. IMO, acrylics and other plastics cause more problems than they are worth in most vivarium applications. Glass is best.
Encyclia, JPP, baskis and 1 others like this.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-31-2018, 06:07 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 349
Thanks: 0
Thanked 42 Times in 41 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
Is there anywhere that custom makes glass tops that you know of.
Yeah, zillions of places. Look at jc hammy's response. For an Exo you just need one or more rectangles of glass, right? Take your measurements and call around to several local glaziers (look up businesses with stuff like "window and mirror" in their name). Ask them what they'd charge for glass pieces of the required dimensions. They will definitely ask you "how thick" and they might even ask "plate or tempered". Plate is fine, tempered is overkill for a lid (not always for doors, depending on what you keep). Eighth inch is fine for small horizontal pieces - say a little under 15x25 in your case. Glass gets way heavier as you go thicker.

You may be surprised what a range of answers you get, for price. But they will all be cheap (a gouge price might be $25; half or less would be normal for my city). Glass is cheap, and cutting it is easy for pros.

Be sure to ask to have the sharp edges sanded.

Seriously, once you find your own local glass supplier, you will probably become a not-so-infrequent flier. You may even wind up building your own glass hulls, instead of buying retail. There is a lot to be said for going that route, if you're so inclined.

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:27 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 304
Thanks: 77
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_w35 View Post
I am also looking into getting a glass top for the exo terra and a 14mm fan.
You mean a 40mm fan, right? (14 mm is like the size of your fingernail).

Also, if it's not too late, you may want to reconsider your substrate mix. What you have there is a sponge. You'll find it difficult to grow much of anything outside of water-loving, boggy swamp plant species. You really don't need (or want) much in the way of water retention in a frog vivarium. Furthermore, peat sours quickly. In a couple of years, you might find formerly healthy plants starting to die off as your substrate pH drops. This can be corrected with the addition of charcoal. Depending on the ratio of peat to coir in your mix, it might compact over time (ie if you have a lot of peat; coir is pretty resistant to compaction), creating anaerobic conditions which will choke your plants' roots & accelerate the souring.

So unless your plants' root systems are really dug in & well established already, I would remove them & replace the substrate with something far less spongy, similar to ABG mix, which is:

2 parts fir bark
2 parts tree fern fiber
1 part peat
1 part milled sphagnum
1 part charcoal

Working with what you've got already, consider your current substrate to be the "peat" portion of the recipe, or even the peat & sphagnum portion. So just 2 parts in 7 is all you need for water retention. The rest is just chunky, non-absorbent material. If you want to skip the tree fern fiber, don't just omit it- replace it with something as to not change that 2:7 ratio. You can simply use more bark & charcoal, for instance, or a coarse sand, or any combination of the three.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2018, 07:22 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 349
Thanks: 0
Thanked 42 Times in 41 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
you may want to reconsider your substrate mix
Good catch. Yeah, he can do everything else, and still not fix his "misting problem" if he doesn't fix his sponge problem.

@OP - definitely add the bark & charcoal. Besides wood products, I like some inorganic components too, that won't ever break down or compact. Some horticultural pumice for example, or turface. Either (or both) of those could also substitute for the tree fern fiber, which has some environmental and some cost issues.

Pumice is very lightweight, turface is a bit heavy, if that is a consideration. Also, pumice comes in smaller bags, ha ha. And many nurseries have it in stock, just look around in their orchid or bonsai supplies. Not perlite or vermiculite - pumice. Don't breathe the dust - rinse through the bag, or use a mask. Growstone is a man-made pumice alternative, also very good for keeping "fluffy soil".

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:23 PM
J_w35's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by serial hobbiest View Post
You mean a 40mm fan, right? (14 mm is like the size of your fingernail).

Also, if it's not too late, you may want to reconsider your substrate mix. What you have there is a sponge. You'll find it difficult to grow much of anything outside of water-loving, boggy swamp plant species. You really don't need (or want) much in the way of water retention in a frog vivarium. Furthermore, peat sours quickly. In a couple of years, you might find formerly healthy plants starting to die off as your substrate pH drops. This can be corrected with the addition of charcoal. Depending on the ratio of peat to coir in your mix, it might compact over time (ie if you have a lot of peat; coir is pretty resistant to compaction), creating anaerobic conditions which will choke your plants' roots & accelerate the souring.

So unless your plants' root systems are really dug in & well established already, I would remove them & replace the substrate with something far less spongy, similar to ABG mix, which is:

2 parts fir bark
2 parts tree fern fiber
1 part peat
1 part milled sphagnum
1 part charcoal

Working with what you've got already, consider your current substrate to be the "peat" portion of the recipe, or even the peat & sphagnum portion. So just 2 parts in 7 is all you need for water retention. The rest is just chunky, non-absorbent material. If you want to skip the tree fern fiber, don't just omit it- replace it with something as to not change that 2:7 ratio. You can simply use more bark & charcoal, for instance, or a coarse sand, or any combination of the three.
I did mean 40mm my apologies. But Thank you i did not consider replacing the substrate . Will keep updated thank you very much I appreciate it!
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:25 PM
J_w35's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgragg View Post
Yeah, zillions of places. Look at jc hammy's response. For an Exo you just need one or more rectangles of glass, right? Take your measurements and call around to several local glaziers (look up businesses with stuff like "window and mirror" in their name). Ask them what they'd charge for glass pieces of the required dimensions. They will definitely ask you "how thick" and they might even ask "plate or tempered". Plate is fine, tempered is overkill for a lid (not always for doors, depending on what you keep). Eighth inch is fine for small horizontal pieces - say a little under 15x25 in your case. Glass gets way heavier as you go thicker.

You may be surprised what a range of answers you get, for price. But they will all be cheap (a gouge price might be $25; half or less would be normal for my city). Glass is cheap, and cutting it is easy for pros.

Be sure to ask to have the sharp edges sanded.

Seriously, once you find your own local glass supplier, you will probably become a not-so-infrequent flier. You may even wind up building your own glass hulls, instead of buying retail. There is a lot to be said for going that route, if you're so inclined.

Good luck!
Awesome, thank you very much!
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2018, 03:56 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 35
Thanks: 9
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

I mist three times a day 30 sec in the morning 45 sec in the after noon and 30 at night. That schedule plus a NEHERP glass topper for my 18x18x24 keeps the humidity up in the tank except for one corner in the front. I'd try to get some glass cut to fit over the screen top of your viv. You could also tear out the screen on your lid get a piece of glass cut that will fit in the top and secure it. Either glass option should keep the humidity up in your viv and keep your plants happy.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2018, 04:40 PM
J_w35's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Thank you! definitely lowered the misting cycles and am looking into getting a glass top instead of the screen. I appreciate the help!
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2018, 06:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 239
Thanks: 3
Thanked 16 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

If you are not using one of the zip drip valves with the pump they definitely cut down on the amount of water "used" in a misting cycle . . . I'd swear that the nozzles drip away more water than they spray in a 10-15 second cycle without a zip valve
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2018, 11:52 PM
J_w35's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 32
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Mist king problem ; ground too wet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chin_monster View Post
If you are not using one of the zip drip valves with the pump they definitely cut down on the amount of water "used" in a misting cycle . . . I'd swear that the nozzles drip away more water than they spray in a 10-15 second cycle without a zip valve
Hmm this is the first I am hearing of a zip drip valve. I will definitely look into one as I have noticed they do drip an awful lot of water. Thank you!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mist King kits Grimsrude Parts & Construction 5 06-06-2017 06:58 PM
Mist King Seconds Timer - Failure Mode cbridgeman Parts & Construction 6 01-19-2015 07:45 PM
Mist King @ NEHERP! MeiKVR6 Vendor Deals 0 12-26-2014 05:47 PM
Mist King question Bfrog Parts & Construction 7 03-21-2012 12:11 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.