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View Poll Results: Ideal size Viv for Pum Trio's
Yes. 20H Vert's are fine. 30 73.17%
No. 20H Verts are too small 6 14.63%
No. (explain your minimum size preferred) 5 12.20%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

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  • 2 Post By frogparty
  • 1 Post By Nismo95
  • 1 Post By Nismo95
  • 6 Post By Dizzle21
  • 2 Post By cbreon
  • 1 Post By Dane
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:47 PM
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Default Minimum space?

I am a firm believer in bigger is better with all our frogs.. But currently am limited to space and starting our first rack.. I am curious to see some input from more experienced Oophaga breeders on the site and see what they have to say about this... Would a trio suffice in a 20H vert? Or do some think thats too small? Just weighing options..
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

overall space is less important than how you design said space.

That being said, I think a 20 vert is fine, BUT you will need to constantly add microfauna in the form of springtails to keep the in tank population from crashing

Also, you want to make sure there are adequate deposition sites, hiding areas and calling areas to choose from, not just one that may be less than optimal

Really, I think youd be better served by an 18x18x24, but it can definitely work



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Old 05-14-2013, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

Totally agree with the less space issue more design issue. If I could do a rack of exo's I would do the 18x18x24's.. But space is limited and frogs are abundant and itching to get out of QT bins.. So 20H verts will have to suffice for the time being until we sign off on our own home and I get to be manly and rebuild a frog room. lol.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:11 PM
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Default

A 20 high should work. Just make sure you fill it with wood vines plants etc.
Buddy
PS. We better see pictures of it completed.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

No worries lol. Once everything is finished there will be plenty of pictures. First rack and 6 new vivs.. You better believe there will be a photo shoot. Lol
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

I use 18 verts. just slightly thinner than a 20g.
Heres a pic on how its set up. Lots of broms and leaf litter!
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzle21 View Post
I use 18 verts. just slightly thinner than a 20g.
Heres a pic on how its set up. Lots of broms and leaf litter!
Yeah, but do you keep pairs or trio's? What species. thanks!
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:11 PM
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Oh duh. I keep pumilio pairs and have a 1.3 cauchero that are doing great in a 18
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

Very cool. Glad to see someone is having luck with it. I was starting to worry a little. I wont lie. haha
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

I like how 2 people chose option #3 just to spite me. lol. They could of chose #2 and been fine but chose #3 and didnt bother to explain why. lol. Sad times people. Sad times..
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

I chose #3, but not to spite you, just to offer an explaination. I think the smallest you want for most pumilio groups would be 18x18x24 as some others have mentioned. However, a 20h could work for smaller pums like the escudos, sc's, ryans, some popa, etc...

I always think of the beta fish in a tiny little cup. Can it live in that cup, sure if you are careful with the water and make sure to clean it. But would it be happier in a bigger bowl? I don't think there is any doubt about it.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

A well planned 20H vert should be fine for 1.2 trios of just about any pumilio. I haven't used them specifically for my frogs, but I have had good experiences with 10g verts and pumilio trios. The only problems occurred when I moved the established, aforementioned frogs to larger enclosures.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post
The only problems occurred when I moved the established, aforementioned frogs to larger enclosures.
What kind of problems occurred?
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

Thanks for the input cbreon and Dane.. I am a bit surprised you kept a trio in a 10g vert! Would be too paranoid to do that. Lol
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mydumname View Post
What kind of problems occurred?
Greg,
in both instances the frogs lost weight, lost color, and died. They had been given previously clean fecals and PCR, and all substrates/plants/decor were sanitized before use. I think the complete change of scenery was a bit much, and there may have been underlying issues that I was somehow not aware of. If I had it to do over again, I would have started with larger tanks, and never moved the frogs.
I ultimately vote for 18g or 20g extra tall tanks for pumilio, if you can find them. They take up the width of a 10 vert, but double the substrate area.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:06 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nismo95 View Post
Thanks for the input cbreon and Dane.. I am a bit surprised you kept a trio in a 10g vert! Would be too paranoid to do that. Lol
This was a year or two before the "bigger is better" trend began, and the tanks were virtually 100% useable area, thanks to greatstuff, pothos, and wandering jew.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

Good to know. I am trying to keep things within budget as far as the initial viv purchase. I have. 48x18x72 inch rack and can fit 3 of the 20's on there. If there was another option I'd go a different route.. And if someone wants to buy a fully finished 36x18x36 exo with lights and stand let me know.. It would fund some custom vivs so I can skip aquarium verts to brom with haha
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Old 05-16-2013, 04:19 AM
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Default Re: Minimum space?

I think 18x18x24 is a good minimum size.
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