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-   Oophaga (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/oophaga/)
-   -   is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio? (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/oophaga/94590-must-clay-substrate-pumilio.html)

Pumilo 04-23-2013 03:38 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
Starphire glass does not allow nearly the UVB penetration that people think it does. I don't have the meters to test anything, but I believe Solacryl or screen mesh may be a better option. Starphire can also be difficult to find. It's rather a specialty product. Most glass shops don't use it or sell it. You could special order it from a glass shop, but being a product they don't use, they may require the purchase of an entire sheet.

The conversation seems to going in the direction, "Can proper UVB use replace a good clay substrate?".
Absolutely not. UVB lighting does not supply even the tiniest bit of calcium. UVB's biggest benefit is probably the vitamin D that it supplies. Now remember that calcium is completely useless with vitamin D. Without vitamin D, calcium cannot be properly absorbed and utilized by the body.
We shouldn't be asking whether UVB can replace a calcium enriched clay substrate, or vice-verse. Instead, realize that adding UVB is the next step in maximizing the effectiveness of a calcium bearing clay substrate. They marry together to form a more natural method of supplying calcium, and the vitamin D to process the calcium, to your young froglets.

carola1155 04-23-2013 04:49 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
1 Attachment(s)
All very good points Doug... somewhere I forgot we were talking about helping with froglet survival rates haha. With adults, proper supplementation and the UVB bulb would be fantastic, but you're right that it doesn't necessarily do much to help the froglets since they aren't readily consuming a feeder that is easily supplemented. Hence the need to add a way to increase their calcium uptake... and use the clay substrate.

ChrisK 04-23-2013 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carola1155 (Post 839382)
Whoops, my bad... it's starphire not starfire. It's a low iron glass that *supposedly* allows for higher transmission of UV.

Either way, I may have answered my own question with this thread:
http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/par...nsparency.html
Doesn't look like starphire would be the way to go for UVB, but there may be other options? I wonder what Michael ended up doing...

Borofloat glass.

phender 04-23-2013 06:06 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
So, if glass and screen blocks out UVB, does that make a case for raising froglets in clear plastic containers, as long as there is proper microfauna levels and access to calcium?

VenomR00 04-23-2013 06:39 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
I never said the screen blocked it out completely. Just caused the penetration to be stopped slightly. I think a UVB light over the vent (if you have one in the middle or back) would still benefit better then not having it.

But to answer your question, in my opinion yes.

Pumilo 04-23-2013 06:52 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisK (Post 839438)
Borofloat glass.

When I was researching UVB transmission in glass, many months ago, I did find that Borofloat glass transmits more UVB than Starphire glass. Wish I had bookmarked my findings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by phender (Post 839455)
So, if glass and screen blocks out UVB, does that make a case for raising froglets in clear plastic containers, as long as there is proper microfauna levels and access to calcium?

Standard plastics and acrylics also block UVB. Solacryl is an acrylic specifically made to transmit more UVB.

Judy S 04-23-2013 07:39 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
so...in the simplest of terms for the people who are not experienced with glass, supplements, froglets, etc.....what is the baseline best approach...in other words, the KISS principle....then maybe the information can be stickied in the beginner forum...

Pumilo 04-23-2013 07:55 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
Clay and UVB are not really beginner subjects, Judy. I've already done a very comprehensive thread on calcium bearing clay substrates. To break it down to it's simplest, would simply be shaving off all the good information. The clay thread I put together is already vastly simplified from http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...te-thread.html.
I feel that simplifying it any more would be counter productive.

VenomR00 04-23-2013 08:00 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
If you want a KISS method here is what I suggest for Oophaga froglets.

Step one, buy clay substrate from Pumilo.

Step two, buy 20+ gallon tank.

Step three, buy springs and iso's from Pumilo.

Step four, build tank.

Step five, seed tank.

Step six, wait three months for everything to be established.

Step seven, add Oophaga.

Thats the easiest way I can suggest. There are other things I would personally do but that is the most basic things you can do.

Pumilo 04-23-2013 08:45 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Judy S (Post 839512)
so...in the simplest of terms for the people who are not experienced with glass, supplements, froglets, etc.....what is the baseline best approach...in other words, the KISS principle....then maybe the information can be stickied in the beginner forum...

Besides, none of my tutorials have yet to be deemed helpful enough to be a sticky.

Judy S 04-23-2013 09:19 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
Can we vote on that?? Your tutorials have been really helpful...I was more or less asking for the "outline" version to tease the appetite for more information...and you have always filled in the gaps...

Gamble 04-23-2013 09:55 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumilo (Post 839536)
Besides, none of my tutorials have yet to be deemed helpful enough to be a sticky.


That's because they're not! Your information sucks Doug. I'd rather take advice from a shortbus blind kid thats written in braille on a piece of toilet paper then read your garbage threads!:D

JUST KIDDING DOUG!
Your threads are very helpful & superbly written.

You & I have had this discussion numerous times about stickies ... no need for me to do it again here.

daryl34 04-25-2013 01:05 PM

Re: is it a must for clay substrate for pumilio?
 
Clay substrate is not a must for adult pumilio, because of vitamin and calcium additions. However for froglets calcium substrates definately have an advantage. However if the calcium is not in high enough concentrations, effects are minimal.

Pumilio froglet survial is greatly enhanced by have food walking all over all the time, and calcium absorption from moist substrate readily available. When they are young 0-3 months they tend to graze all day long.

Daryl


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