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Old 09-12-2015, 12:07 AM
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Default Histrionics Bullseye

Wanted to share a good shot I was able to get today of my male Bullseye calling. Sorry for the I phone quality picture.
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Old 09-12-2015, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Beautiful!
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Very nice! 😊
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Old 09-12-2015, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

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Beautiful!
thank you very much,
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Old 09-12-2015, 02:49 AM
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Very nice! 😊
thank you.
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Old 09-12-2015, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Tesoros Line?
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Old 09-12-2015, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

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Tesoros Line?
no they are not tesoro line.
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Old 09-12-2015, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Where are they from? Curious minds, and all.
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Old 09-12-2015, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

They could be from a number of lines. Bullseye have been bred here for years in the states. They are not that uncommon. They breed relatively easy so there are plenty of cb around.
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Old 09-12-2015, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

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Originally Posted by pafrogguy View Post
They could be from a number of lines. Bullseye have been bred here for years in the states. They are not that uncommon. They breed relatively easy so there are plenty of cb around.
I did not actually know this, I've never seen anyone on here post pictures of them or talk about owning them before Tesoro's just brought in theirs. May have just missed it I'm sure, I'm not 'up' on most Oophaga, as it were.
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Old 09-12-2015, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

There has been a sudden influx of pictures of these on the web and available for sale, now that the Tesoros frogs are here. Until now, people who kept these frogs kept mostly in the shadows, as bringing them out in the open would only mean that they would be peppered with questions and requests for froglets. But now, these gray area frogs will have to compete with Bullseye's that have been responsibly bred and legally imported. The owners of these gray area frogs will now be more likely to show off their frogs, knowing that the Tesoros line frogs will be more desirable than their own.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Nice. Used to take care of 1 back in the mid-nineties at the zoo i worked at.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

According to this Document, they were imported in the 90's.
I've also read where some were use as filler in the box of fish shipments.
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Old 09-12-2015, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Beautiful male calling.
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Old 09-12-2015, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
According to this Document, they were imported in the 90's.
I've also read where some were use as filler in the box of fish shipments.
That's not a document, it's spreadsheet.

Yes, I have been told that frogs did sometimes come in as "filler" from some ornamental fish shipments.
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Old 09-12-2015, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Since when are spreadsheets not documents?

And that's a CITES document listing import/export numbers for the given year, so there were at least some leaving Colombia going to the US, seemingly legitimately.

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Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
That's not a document, it's spreadsheet.

Yes, I have been told that frogs did sometimes come in as "filler" from some ornamental fish shipments.
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Old 09-13-2015, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Is there a full document with key?
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

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Since when are spreadsheets not documents?
I gave what you posted too much credit. It's a portion of a spreadsheet. It's not a document.

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Originally Posted by Spaff View Post
And that's a CITES document listing import/export numbers for the given year, so there were at least some leaving Colombia going to the US, seemingly legitimately.
Emphasis on seemingly.

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Originally Posted by ZookeeperDoug View Post
Is there a full document with key?
Exactly.
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Yeah, Doug. Dig around here: https://www.cites.org/eng/disc/text.php

Key: http://trade.cites.org/cites_trade_g...base_Guide.pdf

Basically, the "large" obligates came in with an undeclared purpose and came from an unknown source. The arborea and granulifera were confiscated specimens.

Edit: Eric, I didn't post the picture, but I've happily made the link to it's source available for all to see. Before you make snarky comments perhaps you should actually read the thread. Large obligates came into the US quite often in the 90s with CITES paperwork from the country of origin, not a country in EU where they could get washed. This is not new information. I can 100% guarantee that some of these animals (or their offspring) are still around. Does that mean that every old line bullseye, etc. came in this way? No, but some did.

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Old 09-13-2015, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Why are you giving people a hard time?

These frogs def came in during the 90s. Hell, Jerry Walls even mentions their imports in his dart frog books. Chill out please.

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There has been a sudden influx of pictures of these on the web and available for sale, now that the Tesoros frogs are here. Until now, people who kept these frogs kept mostly in the shadows, as bringing them out in the open would only mean that they would be peppered with questions and requests for froglets. But now, these gray area frogs will have to compete with Bullseye's that have been responsibly bred and legally imported. The owners of these gray area frogs will now be more likely to show off their frogs, knowing that the Tesoros line frogs will be more desirable than their own.
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Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
That's not a document, it's spreadsheet.

Yes, I have been told that frogs did sometimes come in as "filler" from some ornamental fish shipments.
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

From, "Keeping Poison Frogs" by Walls. Published in 1994

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Old 09-13-2015, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Another...

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Old 09-13-2015, 01:56 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Yes! I love that book, mine is barely held together anymore. First venture in to the hobby, A while ago 😀
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:06 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

You guys are behaving too sensitively. Labeling comments as snarky or saying anyone is giving anyone a hard time is just not true.

The book pages prove nothing other than that they existed here, that was not being contested.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaff View Post
Yeah, Doug. Dig around here: https://www.cites.org/eng/disc/text.php

Key: http://trade.cites.org/cites_trade_g...base_Guide.pdf

Basically, the "large" obligates came in with an undeclared purpose and came from an unknown source. The arborea and granulifera were confiscated specimens.
d.
I'm well aware of the cites database. I'd like to see the full version of the doc previously posted above. It is essentially useless in that abbreviated form. There are many many was to sort the cites data.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:22 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

While we are at it, let's have a look at the azureus, galactonotus, Brazilian tinc and pre tesoros terribilis data too.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:56 AM
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Default Histrionics Bullseye

Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm not casting stones, I live in a glass house. But let's not stick our heads in the sand.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Is there a point to that statement? Curious what you're suggesting? Care to elaborate?

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While we are at it, let's have a look at the azureus, galactonotus, Brazilian tinc and pre tesoros terribilis data too.
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

This is the link to the document I originally posted.
Hope it works

CITES Trade Database
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Old 09-13-2015, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coqui View Post
This is the link to the document I originally posted.
Hope it works

CITES Trade Database
Thank you!
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Old 09-14-2015, 12:44 PM
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Is there a point to that statement? Curious what you're suggesting? Care to elaborate?
I'll get to the point. There are a lot of hypocrites and jealous people around here.

When people post photos to show off their prized frogs, why can't people just shut up and enjoy the photos? I don't know the OP personally but it seemed to me he was just trying to show a nice frog not get back door comments like this...

"...But now, these gray area frogs will have to compete with Bullseye's that have been responsibly bred and legally imported. The owners of these gray area frogs will now be more likely to show off their frogs, knowing that the Tesoros line frogs will be more desirable than their own."


People show off several other species of frogs around here that are most certainly of questionable origin or "gray area" frogs as was so eloquently put, and don't have to deal with this BS.

Had he posted this in the conservation section or specifically asked to have people's .02 then it'd be different.

Why can't everyone just say, "Nice frogs" and move on or just don't post at all?
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogtofall View Post
I'll get to the point. There are a lot of hypocrites and jealous people around here.

When people post photos to show off their prized frogs, why can't people just shut up and enjoy the photos? I don't know the OP personally but it seemed to me he was just trying to show a nice frog not get back door comments like this...

"...But now, these gray area frogs will have to compete with Bullseye's that have been responsibly bred and legally imported. The owners of these gray area frogs will now be more likely to show off their frogs, knowing that the Tesoros line frogs will be more desirable than their own."


People show off several other species of frogs around here that are most certainly of questionable origin or "gray area" frogs as was so eloquently put, and don't have to deal with this BS.

Had he posted this in the conservation section or specifically asked to have people's .02 then it'd be different.

Why can't everyone just say, "Nice frogs" and move on or just don't post at all?

It's very simple, it's because I was following up to this comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TarantulaGuy View Post
I did not actually know this, I've never seen anyone on here post pictures of them or talk about owning them before Tesoro's just brought in theirs. May have just missed it I'm sure, I'm not 'up' on most Oophaga, as it were.

Which was a good observation and very true. There is no "BS" that you had to "put up with" or the OP had to. And there are no more "hypocrites or jealous people around here" than anywhere else. And their certainly none displayed in this topic. None of the statements made deserve your judgement.
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:28 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
It's very simple, it's because I was following up to this comment.



Which was a good observation and very true. There is no "BS" that you had to "put up with" or the OP had to. And there are no more "hypocrites or jealous people around here" than anywhere else. And their certainly none displayed in this topic. None of the statements made deserve your judgement.
Seemed pretty obvious to me Eric. Seems some are just a bit overly sensitive and defensive about these animals.
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Old 09-14-2015, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Perhaps it's because Antone is breeding Redhead's and Tesoros has brought these in as well?
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Old 09-14-2015, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Since the OP's beautiful animal and thread have already been hijacked, derailed, and buried by a page of entirely unrelated opinions.....

let me preface the rest of this post by saying my negative opinion on animal smugglers can not be accurately described here as if would include MANY obscenities and require emotion I am unable to put into words!

Here, in the USA, we are ALL innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and by a jury of our peers. Save the comments for people who deserve it like a certain unmentionable place that has sickly reptiles!

Most everything that is desirable and that has less supply than demand, will have a "gray Area". even flat out Black Market area, counterpart to it's legal cousin. In fact, I don't even think having a "gray area" (insert anything here) is even illegal.

Second, we all violated the sites TOS (yes, myself and a Mod included ). Read the notice up top? Had this been a "can anyone tell me if this is a legal animal" thread, none of this would be so blatantly off topic. Another thread should have been started with a link to this one. Out of respect for this fact and the OP, I have posted his photo below.

Technicalities aside: Throwing a stone then saying that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and admitting you live in a glass house is the exact same thing offending someone and then saying no offense. It is only self serving and doesn't magically reverse the damage. The damage is an interpretation of your comment by the person you used it on. And, please see our glorious friends at Webster, here: definition of the word document to see how amazingly wrong the comment about that snippet not being a document is! Of course, it isn't a legal document but, a document it most certainly is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HistoCrazy View Post
Wanted to share a good shot I was able to get today of my male Bullseye calling. Sorry for the I phone quality picture.
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Old 09-14-2015, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Since the moderator team has decided my video response isn't allowed, let me just say...

HA HA HA! To that comment. Stand up comedy is a great profession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
Perhaps it's because Antone is breeding Redhead's and Tesoros has brought these in as well?


Nice frogs OP! Bullseye are so bold. I'm sure you're loving them.
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Old 09-14-2015, 11:58 PM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

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Originally Posted by Frogtofall View Post
Since the moderator team has decided my video response isn't allowed, let me just say...

HA HA HA! To that comment. Stand up comedy is a great profession.





Nice frogs OP! Bullseye are so bold. I'm sure you're loving them.
thank you very much appreciate the positive comments.
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Old 09-15-2015, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

I stand behind what I wrote. In addition, I'm looking forward to seeing the Tesoros Bullseye's and Redhead command a premium over their gray area equivalents. Tesoros deserves our support and the best way to do that is to purchase their frogs and the froglets that come from those clearly legal frogs. I'm not saying I wouldn't purchase a gray area frog nor would I condemn anyone for who did, but it would be for less money than a Tesoros frog. I think that the owners of these frogs know that. You can expect to see more pictures and sale ads of those frogs now, than before. Especially since some people who have the gray area frogs are moving them out to replace with Tesoros frogs. :-)

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Originally Posted by ecichlid View Post
There has been a sudden influx of pictures of these on the web and available for sale, now that the Tesoros frogs are here. Until now, people who kept these frogs kept mostly in the shadows, as bringing them out in the open would only mean that they would be peppered with questions and requests for froglets. But now, these gray area frogs will have to compete with Bullseye's that have been responsibly bred and legally imported. The owners of these gray area frogs will now be more likely to show off their frogs, knowing that the Tesoros line frogs will be more desirable than their own.
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Old 09-15-2015, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

There are some huge threads on this topic involving those large obligates that covered all kinds of aspects including the numbers exported after they became listed in CITES. http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...-lehmanni.html

http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gen...ogs-forum.html

One of the things people forget is that these frogs were only added to CITES class II in 1987. There wasn't any need to record the number transacted before that year. In addition, people have to remember that there have been multiple exports under the name of "Dendrobates". At that time, they were classified as Dendrobates so that has to also be understood.

I suggest people wanting to add to the illegal etc discussion move it to the first behemoth thread linked above.

Some comments

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Old 09-15-2015, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: Histrionics Bullseye

Folks, let's steer this back on topic. If you want to talk about the husbandry of these frogs, or how nice they are, or continue to argue about gray area animals (let's not), then go ahead but let the bickering end.

Remaining off topic posts will lead to infractions.
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