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Old 12-01-2013, 12:49 AM
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Default Basti question

So I have a pair of Basti they are from the old Seaside reptile shipment and I believe they are Red frog beach, but I guess there was not locale info for that import.

So..is anyone working with Red Frog beach or fine spot basti? I have a pair that is producing for me and so far they have had four offspring two with no spots and two with spots. All four have very little white on their bellies. Is this part of the characteristics of any specific locale?

Bill
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:30 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

I was at Red Frog Beach, Bastimentos over the summer and saw about 150 pumilio there. I posted some pictures of them in this thread, as well as some cemetary bastimentos, so maybe you can see how yours look compared to these: http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/mem...ure-heavy.html
I saw some RFB bastis with no spots, some with very fine spots, and some with medium spots.
There was variability in the amount of white I saw, although most RFB had white bellies and all the ones I remember seeing had white feet.
It's really hard to say from pictures alone, though, because I saw some individuals in both populations that I didn't have picture of that could easily look like the other type.
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

Mine have very fine to no spots and have even less white. Here is a few pics but not very good pics of the belly

Parents.....
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File Type: jpg female 2 close3.jpg (93.8 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg female 2 close2.jpg (89.1 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg 2013-09-06 23.52.09.jpg (89.8 KB, 66 views)
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

Pics of the offspring....
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File Type: jpg 537250_10202018759854364_307974603_n.jpg (76.8 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg baby basti.jpg (80.5 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg basti froglet.jpg (60.5 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg basti spotless.jpg (63.0 KB, 54 views)
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Old 12-01-2013, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

I have to admit, I am skeptical of any 'fine spot' Basti, being special or any 'RFB' being even in the hobby.

Maybe sure. But none that I know confirmed and I know many people who years ago would collect up CB Basti with tiny spots and call them fine spot Basti ...and breed them.

There are Fine Spot Basti that produce offspring with normal spots, and there are normal cemetery Basti that produce offspring with no spots.

and then there are West Bank Basti populations, and Red Frog Hill, and and and....

Anyway, I know nothing of the Seaside Reptile imports...so I cant comment there.

Just a general word of caution. I think the hobby treated Bastimentos as Bastimentos for a long time, mixed and matched.

We have some newer importations from 2012, 2013 that would appear to be Cemetery or Old Bank by the variable colors that came in....

If there is the Holy Grail of RFB Basti in the hobby...I dont have them, or know of where to get them.
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:09 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sports_doc View Post
I have to admit, I am skeptical of any 'fine spot' Basti, being special or any 'RFB' being even in the hobby.

Maybe sure. But none that I know confirmed and I know many people who years ago would collect up CB Basti with tiny spots and call them fine spot Basti ...and breed them.

There are Fine Spot Basti that produce offspring with normal spots, and there are normal cemetery Basti that produce offspring with no spots.

and then there are West Bank Basti populations, and Red Frog Hill, and and and....

Anyway, I know nothing of the Seaside Reptile imports...so I cant comment there.

Just a general word of caution. I think the hobby treated Bastimentos as Bastimentos for a long time, mixed and matched.

We have some newer importations from 2012, 2013 that would appear to be Cemetery or Old Bank by the variable colors that came in....

If there is the Holy Grail of RFB Basti in the hobby...I dont have them, or know of where to get them.
I understand that...and to be clear I am not asking anyone to verify that these are or are not fine spot. I am asking if anyone else breeding bastimentos are finding offspring with no spots and/or very little white on the bellies. If so what locales are they and when/where were they imported or what is the lineage?
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

Quote:
Originally Posted by sports_doc View Post
I have to admit, I am skeptical of any 'fine spot' Basti, being special or any 'RFB' being even in the hobby.

What are your thoughts on the late 90's "fine spot" imports via villegas (pumilio.com) that have been breeding true for over a decade? While I won't/can't call them 'RFB', breeding true for that long certainly seems special, no?


...and Bill, I'm pretty sure that no spot is just beggin' for a trip out west!
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Last edited by randommind; 12-01-2013 at 03:28 AM. Reason: ...in hopes Bill will send that beauty to AZ!!!!!!
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

Wes, whenever you got the plane ticket she is ready. Getting big!
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Old 12-01-2013, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Basti question

This is for you Wes!
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Old 12-03-2013, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Basti question

Tarbo,canI ask what your offspring look like,do you have any shots of the first week or so,ootw. I can shed no light on your hobby,or older imports. but we are keeping some said RFB in the uk,around 15 came in last year,uniformly smaller than cem basti smaller finer spots,ranging from fine spots to pepperdusting to virtually no spots, all have white/cream feet all have red orange background colour. I'll hold back there i'm curious as to your reply!!

much thanks

Stu
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

Quote:
Originally Posted by stu&shaz View Post
Tarbo,canI ask what your offspring look like,do you have any shots of the first week or so,ootw. I can shed no light on your hobby,or older imports. but we are keeping some said RFB in the uk,around 15 came in last year,uniformly smaller than cem basti smaller finer spots,ranging from fine spots to pepperdusting to virtually no spots, all have white/cream feet all have red orange background colour. I'll hold back there i'm curious as to your reply!!

much thanks

Stu
Hey Stu..thanks for the info. Sounds very similar. Here is a couple crappy pics, but you can see the stomach
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:22 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

From what I was told by Marcus Breece (sp) around 4 years ago, the frogs on red frog beach have been basically completely pushed away because of tourism. If you look at red frog beach on google it's a huge tourist/party/retreat destination. I think they've basically either died off or moved out into other areas and bred with different color frogs.

On top of that, I was told by Marcus that the island of Bastimentos is being bought and people are considering building multi million dollar houses on the island. Vacation/retirement mansions for the wealthy. If/when that happens, expect a lot of frog populations to suffer.

If there was a red frog beach bastimentos that had a specific coloration then it's probably a fairly rare thing in the hobby. I think generally the idea is dark red, big spots and white from underbelly to under the chin with white feet. I don't see too many of them in the hobby.

-Nish

P.S. Here's an image of a 'claimed' RFB Bastimentos from Frognet: Frognet.org Gallery :: Frogs in Panama :: basti1

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Old 12-04-2013, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

Quote:
Originally Posted by nish07 View Post
From what I was told by Marcus Breece (sp) around 4 years ago, the frogs on red frog beach have been basically completely pushed away because of tourism. If you look at red frog beach on google it's a huge tourist/party/retreat destination. I think they've basically either died off or moved out into other areas and bred with different color frogs.

On top of that, I was told by Marcus that the island of Bastimentos is being bought and people are considering building multi million dollar houses on the island. Vacation/retirement mansions for the wealthy. If/when that happens, expect a lot of frog populations to suffer.

If there was a red frog beach bastimentos that had a specific coloration then it's probably a fairly rare thing in the hobby. I think generally the idea is dark red, big spots and white from underbelly to under the chin with white feet. I don't see too many of them in the hobby.
Fortunately, this is not the case. I was on bastimentos this summer and saw several parts, including Bastimentos town and Red frog beach for awhile. There are many sections of rainforest among the developing parts where I saw and heard frogs. There are specifically signs along some sections of rainforest that say "Entrance restricted: monitoring populations of red frogs" and "Capture, collection, or hunting of wildlife is strictly prohibited". On one hike, I saw over 50 pumilio, and the most densely populated areas were actually where there was some minimal human disturbance, namely where dirt trails had been made for a zipline course. Don't forget, the developments around RFB are close to the Bastimentos Island National Marine Park, where the land is protected from any harmful development. From what I saw, the RFB bastis were doing just fine, but the "cemetery" population (variable phenotypes, what we commonly have in the hobby) was much smaller. With taking to some other people who have seen that population before, it seems that the cemetery population may be in much more danger from overcollection and other pressures than RFB pumilio, but that's getting off topic...

As I said before, most of the RFB pumilio I saw had white bellies and feet. I don't specifically recall how much white was on the bellies, but I remember some that had completely white stomachs and the white tended to be "whiter/ brighter" than some of the tan/ grey legs on the cemetery population. The spotting on RFB ranged from no spots to many spots, but I would say most had more spots that were smaller in size compared to the cemetery bastis.

I might be going back down again next year, and if I do, one of my goals would be to observe more differences between the RFB bastis and cemetery bastis. Maybe I could walk throughout the habitat and see if there is a intergrade between the two populations, or some sort of natural barrier/ divider. I could also see if there are size differences and take more ventral shots of both types.

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Old 12-04-2013, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Basti question

There must have been a difference at some point. I've been told of pumilio populations that are so prolific that they are jumping out into the road and all over the place. I get the impression that there has been some sort of significant decline at some point whether you can find the frogs easily at RFB or not.
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Old 12-04-2013, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Basti question

Hey Tarbo,buddy can i ask for your name please,thanks for the pictures. It was late when I posted,I missed the earlier young pictures,but it was those just ootw shots I was really after. I'll come clean,what I was fishing for was blue legs,it is very transient,almost gone in a couple of weeks,here's a great example,you can already see the red coming through. I have no idea if this points to anything,an indicator of a population or not,but it's there none the less,in our tiny breeding group,from different parents.




We have 3males 2 females,patterns as above very variable,only one male has what I expect of the "classic RFB" look,but that said I now have froglets from different parents and they almost always have the blue legs,which frankly amazed me. I would say by the time anything gets here the really "pretty" frogs are earmarked and sold in europe,but I'm not complaining over the last few weeks we have had 6 come OOTW and OMG they are stunning,whether they will keep the colour who knows. I showed pics of my adults to JP,he said they looked "right",but naturally i'm in the same boat as you,just cannot be 100% sure,as is our lot. Incidentally we also keep the cems,so I can compare the two back to back,they look very different to me,but I'm just a couple of years in, to our hobby:good eyes but little experience.

I've heard another report here of very few frogs found in the cem and RFB just recently ,it's very worrying,my hopes are just for weather conditions being the cause,but this is starting to mess with me.

Good luck with these Tarbo,
best

Stu
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Old 12-04-2013, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Basti question

Quote:
Originally Posted by randommind View Post
What are your thoughts on the late 90's "fine spot" imports via villegas (pumilio.com) that have been breeding true for over a decade? While I won't/can't call them 'RFB', breeding true for that long certainly seems special, no?


...and Bill, I'm pretty sure that no spot is just beggin' for a trip out west!
I have some of the Villegas line that are orange but produce offspring that red with white bellies, see attached picture. The male that produced these is now over 9 years old and the female is coming up on 8. I've been told that these appear to be red beach but canít personally confirm that.

Brian
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Old 12-08-2013, 03:41 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarbo96 View Post
So I have a pair of Basti they are from the old Seaside reptile shipment and I believe they are Red frog beach, but I guess there was not locale info for that import.

So..is anyone working with Red Frog beach or fine spot basti? I have a pair that is producing for me and so far they have had four offspring two with no spots and two with spots. All four have very little white on their bellies. Is this part of the characteristics of any specific locale?

Bill
I've got 3.4 from the 2004 seaside reptile import of fine spots. I've also got a number of babies from them and some F1 and F2 pairs set up. I've never produced spotless offspring.

Are yours from the original 2004 imports? Or are they CB?
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Old 12-08-2013, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Basti question

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkt2000 View Post
I've got 3.4 from the 2004 seaside reptile import of fine spots. I've also got a number of babies from them and some F1 and F2 pairs set up. I've never produced spotless offspring.

Are yours from the original 2004 imports? Or are they CB?
Mine are cb from the seaside imports.

I have not noticed any blue on the legs of newly morphed froglets. My spotless have a few spots on their legs.

Bill
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

Just moved two juvies to their own tank. Cant believe the lack of interest in these guys. here are some updated pics
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:23 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

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Originally Posted by tarbo96 View Post
Just moved two juvies to their own tank. Cant believe the lack of interest in these guys. here are some updated pics
those look so good, I like it with the spots
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

here is a picture of the old Villegas' line. I had this line for many years until a couple years ago. In my opinion, it is not an RFB. The cemetery that I saw, it was insanely red with large black spot, and very white belly. The pattern was well defined. None of the pictures of the claimed RFB that I saw, match the intensity or the color pattern.
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: Basti question

picture doesn't show up... one more try
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