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-   Oophaga (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/oophaga/)
-   -   Aggressive paru (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/oophaga/113897-aggressive-paru.html)

scoy 07-27-2013 12:20 AM

Aggressive paru
 
Has anyone noticed aggression between there male and female paru? I have a pair that up until yesterday believed to be two males with an aggressive one and a submissive one. The one male would call all day and tackle the female and ride her around the viv until she could break free. Eventually my female would run for dear life and hide when the male would begin to call. I was begging to think the female was a submissive male until I found her feeding a tad, when I started to snoop around I found a clutch of six more eggs. I had my suspicions tho cause I have a young cristo male that grapples with his female. But when I asked a few people they told me that males will only hug other males. Do alot of others see there young males squezzing females?

Armson 07-27-2013 01:08 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
You post actually relieves me a bit. I thought the exact same thing but I have never heard the other frog call. My aggressive male seems to have backed off for the time being but I have not seen any eggs or tads.


So I am hoping it is in fact a male and female.

How big of a system do you have them in?


-B

markpulawski 07-27-2013 01:20 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
I have seen female Pums ride proven pair males around the tank, interesting to see males doing the same in larger Oophaga. Great info, as soon as you think you have seen it all this happens. Thanks and good luck with your offspring.

scoy 07-27-2013 01:24 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Yeah, they seem to be a bit harder to sex. With the brown color its hard to spot a throat patch and as fat as mine are the female has a neck that looks like it could blow up to call. I had paired her with two seperate males and got the same aggresive courting both times. I keep mine in 40g breeders set on there side to be front opening. Theres a 60mm pc fan in the top right corner and the temp stays around 75. I usually spray manually twice a day once the morning and the other in the evening. Also both my males are very bold and if you mimic there call they will charge you while calling with no fear, pretty cool.

Armson 07-27-2013 01:31 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Yeah, The big reason I think I have a 1.1 is that the male has always charged me and called almost every time I open the tank. The other frog has never showed that aggressive behavior.

I have mine in a 24x18x24 exo... They will eventually be put into a larger viv.



-B

scoy 07-27-2013 01:31 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by markpulawski (Post 1389313)
I have seen female Pums ride proven pair males around the tank, interesting to see males doing the same in larger Oophaga. Great info, as soon as you think you have seen it all this happens. Thanks and good luck with your offspring.

Thankyou, I'm trying to do everything right. Its just there isnt that much info out there that goes into detail on the larger oophaga. I'm hopeing everything goes smooth from here on. I think its really cool/ interesting as too the variation of the morph.

Lance 07-27-2013 01:32 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Well im glad someone else is seeing this same behavior in their Parus. Ive been seeing this aggression for a while now. This gives me some hope that i might have tads in the broms...

scoy 07-27-2013 02:13 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
I'm starting to wonder if the tradtional courtship of pumilio is reversed in the paru. There were a few instances where the male would pet or rub the back of my female before he tackled her.

scoy 07-27-2013 02:21 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Armson (Post 1389337)
Yeah, The big reason I think I have a 1.1 is that the male has always charged me and called almost every time I open the tank. The other frog has never showed that aggressive behavior.

I have mine in a 24x18x24 exo... They will eventually be put into a larger viv.



-B

My tank isnt very high. But mine dont really use the little bit of vert they have, its been all ground . Also big broms are a must since I noticed this clutch I've been watching my female scout out tad rearing sites and she trys but cant fit her back end low enough into some fireballs I have.

Armson 07-27-2013 02:26 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
I have a small water feature splitting the tank and they each stay on separate sides. The only time the "female" goes to the other is when the male chases after her.

However I do agree... They are always on the floor of the viv they rarely ever climb.

Lance, how are you keeping yours?



-B

Lance 07-27-2013 02:51 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Mine are in 2 36x18x24 exos. Mine use every inch of their tanks. Before I got my Parus I talked with Pepper about their size and he told me a large Auratus to small Tinc sized frog. So with that I found some larger Neos. My Parus have no problems backing into the brom axils and chill there for a bit.
Im not to sure if ive posted their tanks on Dendro but on Canadart I made a post.
Some Paru pics | Canadart

scoy 07-27-2013 03:09 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
I remember seeing thos tanks on here somwhere before. I love the second tank with all the gesneriads. Mine dont have problems backing into larger broms, just some of the fireballs arent wide enough in the middle.

scoy 07-27-2013 09:00 PM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
If everyone with any large oophaga could please post there experiences with breeding and or just keeping these guys and what you've seen or had success with it , it would be greatly appriciated. Like I said before there is'nt nearly enough info on the larger oophagas. Especially since they, or atleast the paru are no longer just an "insider" frog and they are available to the average Joe/ Josh:) ... I feel alot of people with these frogs are scared to ask for advice because some others feel like only a select few should have them.

A&MGecko 07-28-2013 12:05 PM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Here is my experience so far with mine. I got 6 paru last year in September, I put them all in a very large tank, 4 feet wide, 2 high 2 deep. Even tho the animals where young and not calling 1 animal took control of the whole thing and all the rest of the animals where hiding all the time except the dominant and another one. I waited a while until I herd the first calls, when I herd one animal call 2-3 month after, it was as I suspected, the animal that took the control of the tank. Shortly after that male started to call the other animal not hiding started to be interested, I have had 3-4 months of laying eggs that never got transported, very frustrating. I then decided to split the animals, I made some 2 feet cubes for them, I moved the known pair in one and the other 4 animals in the other tank to hope another pair would form out of them. The pair started to lay eggs again not to long after the move, it took a while for them to learn what to do after laying, I guess, but what I have notice the male was not calling anymore for a long while, thought they were taking a break because I didn't notice any feeding, just about 3-4 week ago I see the first baby on a broom leaf, pooping out, I was able to catch 3 babies and 1 more is in there as of now, so 4 good babies first round, soon after the babies came out, the male started calling again, so I hope I have a second round going now, :D
As for aggression, I have notice absolutely none with my pair, they do their thing all day with no problem at all so far. The male hopping around the top of brooms looking for the girl and calling all day, and the girl going around the leaf litter picking at microfauna.
As for the other 4, unfortunately for me I have 4 males (ouch, 5.1 out of 6 :(), I have noticed just short time calls from all of them when they encounter each other, none of these males took control of the tank, they share it with out any problems so far. I am looking for trade in for a female if anyone has 1 extra that wants to trade for a male, lol.
So, suggestions I can give accordingly to my experience so far, don't keep em in group unless you have a tank as big as a room of space, lol. If you have the space grow them all up in single tanks, then when the animals are large enough to sex, I would introduce 1 animal at the time in another tank and try to make em start calling to set the sex of the animals. Ones you figure out the sex for sure, just put them in 1.1 ratio, I am sure if I put a female in the tank with 4 males the hell will break lose for dominance.
Alberto

scoy 07-28-2013 04:53 PM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Great info, thanks for posting Alberto. I've noticed my female in the leaf litter all day foaraging while the male stays higher.

scoy 07-30-2013 07:00 PM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Just an update, All six eggs are fertile and developing. Also found two moldy eggs from the last clutch. Both sets of eggs were laid in clear film canisters laying flat ontop of the leaf litter. Also the male has calmed down alot since finding this clutch of eggs.

randommind 11-28-2013 04:26 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
A couple low-quality 'paru' videos to go along with this "Aggression" thread.

First shows a little male on female aggression in the beginning followed by some calling.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOV4KUAaxBE


Here we have some serious aggression between 2 males...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUP8dC8PVHA

xIslanderx 11-28-2013 04:27 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Hmm, says videos are private?

Quote:

Originally Posted by randommind (Post 1637610)
A couple low-quality 'paru' videos to go along with this "Aggressive" title on this thread.

First shows a little male on female aggression in the beginning followed by some calling.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOV4KUAaxBE


Here we have some serious aggression between 2 males...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUP8dC8PVHA


randommind 11-28-2013 04:32 AM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by xIslanderx (Post 1637618)
Hmm, says videos are private?


How about now???

scoy 11-28-2013 04:17 PM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
That second video is some hardcore street fighting. I kept expecting one to pull out a switch blade, haha. Thanks for posting both. You can really see the difference between aggressive courting and fighting. The only thing is if you had a submisive male he might appear to be a female.

randommind 11-28-2013 04:50 PM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scoy (Post 1638114)
The only thing is if you had a submisive male he might appear to be a female.

I am not certain if this holds true for all the 'paru'...but my female is easy to identify and she is a noticeably smaller frog.

scoy 11-28-2013 10:49 PM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
With all the problems UE has had sexing them I think there more of a case by case frog. My female is huge.

pafrogguy 11-29-2013 09:44 PM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
My smaller probable female was a male. Separate them and place the probable female in a different tank. Let her or him in there to establish its territory and then introduce the calling male. Someone who is breeding paru and has the most incorrectly sexed animals that I have seen so far suggested this. Within 5 minutes they were calling in each other's faces. Not saying this is fool proof, but it def worked for me and is worth a shot. There are A LOT of probable females that are turning out to be male out there.

El Saptio Joyas 10-25-2014 01:37 PM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
I have a 2 frogs together, one is suppose to be proven female and other is unknown, thought to be male, but no calling from either frog. The "proven" female will chase and grapple the "unknown" on occasion, otherwise they seem to get along. No eggs that i can tell, but frogs can hide well and i dont want to tear apart the viv to find any.

i am trying different things as suggested by PA Frogger, as i have 2 other animals to work with. I will share more as time progresses.

Slurpeesnow 11-03-2014 09:04 PM

Re: Aggressive paru
 
I had this happen initially, tackling the female. It subsided after a few weeks, funny enough it was an issue when they were apart for a while.


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