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Old 04-25-2019, 07:24 PM
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Default hi

hi,

used to have dart frogs around when I was 15 years old, which came to a sad ending(food insect cultures collapsed, fruit flies failed randomly but the pea aphids was my own fault foir not setting up new pea-plants on time), and I promised myself to not get dart frogs again till I trusted myself enough to not let such a thing happen again.

but through all those years I kept my terrarium, it was mostly a storage spot for plantpots the last few years.

now, ~10 years later, one of my friends started with an aquarium. him telling about setting up the aquarium etc reminded me of dart frogs again, since there are quiet some similarities, and interesting differences. biggest thing was a conversation about wild caught and captive bred, my friend had a specific species of fish he wanted to keep, he wanted to get captive bred, but strangely wild caught fish were way easier to get, and cheaper. what he told I found a bit suspicious, especially since that fish was only recently discovered he told, we googled it and apparently they only live wild in sri lanka, and sri lanka ordered an export ban on those fish 5-10 years ago. from my frogtime I remembered there was quiet a bit of attention for preserving natural populations with dart frogs, and only limited, expensive and legal import, where it was always clearly documented where they came from, etc.

while with this fish wild caught were cheaper, the local pet store has them, my friend had asked the pet store for the name of their suplier, but strangely the suplier didn't list this fish on their site at all. google did give a page for the fish, but it(the link) was dead now/removed. so seemed kind of shady.

anyway, the more we talked about his aquarium, the more I wanted to get into dart frogs again.

so over the past weeks I've been re-designing my terrarium. finished the last part of the 'big'/basic design today, tomorrow or so I'll add some vines I made today(from ropes). first few bromeliads are already added too, but just the first few.

then onto the finer details, more plants, adding the substrate, monitoring temperature(I think I'll need a few degrees more, especially in winter, getting a heat cable soon and thinking about adapting my lighthood a bit so the fan can more effectively push warm air into the tank, instead of pulling in directly air from outside the hood, since I made the hood with a bit too much ventilation back when I was 15), and then in 2 months or so add frogs.

btw, one thing I found really strange around here.... do you seriously ship frogs through the mail?!

I'm dutch so back when I was 15 I didn't really look into the international dartfrog world, but just did my research in the dutch community(unfortunatly the dutch forum seems completely dead now...).
now for the first time I've been looking into the international/american community, and got quiet a culture shock when I encountered threads about shipping frogs. at first I thought it was just a joke, or something a few unethical moneygrabbers do, but as I looked more into it it seemed like it's common... not to offend or start a discussion, but do all of you seriously think it's ok to ship frogs? or just something controversial that a minority of people does, but others disagree with?
I even found loads of unboxing videos on youtube that unboxed live frogs... felt like I stepped into some kind of dystopian novel.

Last edited by dendrobates frisia; 04-25-2019 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 04-25-2019, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: hi

I started the same way. I had iguana and bearded dragons growing up. Made the jump to dart frogs about 4 years ago.

Welcome!

And yes, frogs can be shipped overnight express with heating gel packs and thick foams walls. It is wild.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: hi

Quote:
And yes, frogs can be shipped overnight express with heating gel packs and thick foams walls. It is wild.
and it's not even controversial?
just seems really weird.. just feels like mailing a cat or dog to me, something you'd ethically not want to do. I'd expect a lot of people would be up in arms about shipping frogs.

but apparently it works and they survive fine, or it wouldn't be done. and I don't feel weird about shipping insects, so guess I'll have to change my framework a bit.
(although I'll not deal with it directly anyway, all the commercial frog supliers around here have a strict 'no shipping live frogs' policy. there'll be a reptile market closeby on the 23th of june, and a frogday a bit further away, but still reachable with public transport, in october, so I can easily get them there)

anyway, here's my work in progress:

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Old 04-25-2019, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: hi

Viv looks like it is coming along nicely.

People have been shipping frogs for quite some time, with very good results. I prefer not to if possible, but don't have a problem doing it if I must. Welcome back to the hobby.
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Old 04-25-2019, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: hi

Welcome to Dendroboard!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dendrobates frisia View Post
and it's not even controversial?
just seems really weird.. just feels like mailing a cat or dog to me, something you'd ethically not want to do. I'd expect a lot of people would be up in arms about shipping frogs.
No, not controversial at all, and very safe. Frogs are shipped by overnight shipping only (not regular mail), and shippers take a lot of effort to get the packaging and temperature control just right.

The FedEx office that I pick up at knows to keep my live shipments upright and room temperature until I get there, and the counter worker and I usually chat a bit about what interesting frogs or reptiles I've just received.

Perhaps we are more comfortable with shipping because the US is very spread out geographically, and often really impossible to go pick up animals in person. I live in the central US, and I've gotten animals shipped from the coastal states two thousand miles away multiple times.
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