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  • 1 Post By Socratic Monologue
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Old 03-07-2019, 07:12 PM
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Howdy all!

New member here, I have been lurking for a week or so and decided to join up.

I recently acquired a 18x18x36 ZooMed Paludarium. I am in the planning stages for setting up the bioactive environment. I was initially planning to setup for tree frogs but after researching they all seem to be nocturnal. I have two questions for the community.

1. Is there a species of tree frogs that are not nocturnal.

2. Would Tincs do well in a Paludarium setup? My concern is that they would not utilize the full canopy. From what I have read they seem to be ground dwellers.

Thanks,

Squibs




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Old 03-07-2019, 07:29 PM
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1) Interesting question. Web/DB search doesn't yield much. Maybe someone knows and will chime in here.

2) I dunno; having kept numerous aquariums and now vivariums, paludariums sound like an epic PITA to me. Start here: https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gt...c%20paludarium

As a rule, choosing a frog species and then acquiring the proper housing for it is much more satisfactory than doing those things in the opposite order, but I guess we all sometimes get the cart before the horse. Setting that viv up as a straight vivarium would be a nice setup for leucomelas , or some of the easier thumbnails.
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:04 PM
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My tinctorius cobalt and azureus go to the top of their 18x18x24s. I imagine they’d make their way another 10” if they had it.
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DPfarr View Post
My tinctorius cobalt and azureus go to the top of their 18x18x24s. I imagine they’d make their way another 10” if they had it.


This is very informative. Thank you sharing your experience! Azureus are Tincs that I have been interested in.



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Old 03-08-2019, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Socratic Monologue View Post
2) I dunno; having kept numerous aquariums and now vivariums, paludariums sound like an epic PITA to me. Start here: https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/gt...c%20paludarium
Would you consider a paludarium to be more a PITA than an aquascaped aquarium?
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:09 AM
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An aquarium is a single environment. You will be attempting to create and maintain two environments simultaneously. With the appropriate equipment and planning as with aquariums it can either be easier or more difficult.


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Old 03-08-2019, 06:56 AM
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18"x18" is the bare minimum footprint I would keep a pair of tincs in. Adding a water feature that is of any visual consequence for a paludarium will take a lot of that footprint away. Tincs can climb no doubt, but they still need floorspace more than they need vertical climbing space. Mine will venture up to the top but spend 80 to 90 percent of their time on the floor of their tanks. I think tree frogs would be a better option for a paludarium.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:55 PM
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Varanoid, I appreciate your input. I will attempt to create as much surface area for the 18x18 footprint if I end up going with PDFs.

I am hesitant of tree frogs until I find out, (A) there are any non nocturnal species. (B) What time of the evening they become active. I know this may vary but does nocturnal mean they start their day around 10PM-12AM?

At this point, adding frogs to the paludarium is a few months out, I want to be able to create an excellent environment for a Dendro or Thumbnail species given that tree frogs do not work out.

I'm hoping someone with knowledge of tree frogs will drop by!
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:08 AM
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Would you consider a paludarium to be more a PITA than an aquascaped aquarium?
If by 'aquascaped' you mean a planted tank, then yes; planted tanks are simple. I have a 58g that almost runs itself -- the plecos and the cories breed regularly, cardinals and hatchets and pencilfish thrive, and the plants just grow. If you mean an Amano-style work of high art, then I can't say; those have never spun me.

I've never had a paludarium, so I'm not a good source of comparative information, but...

Like kblack3 said, a paludarium is twice the environments, so everything being equal it is twice as much input as either an aquarium or a viv.

But everything isn't equal, since in a paludarium you have this all squashed into one box. So, water processing equipment has to wedge in there, the viv portion has to somehow drain without messing up the water portion, there has to be enough space on the water surface to get your hands in there for maintenance, but there still needs to be enough ground surface for the frogs to feel secure in leaf litter and for microfauna to live.

The volume of the water area is necessarily low, so the total number and range of appropriate species of aquatic animals in there will be very limited, and water quality fluctuations will be amplified by the low volume (and all the fruit flies/crickets falling in, I'll bet). I've had ~5g freshwater tanks before, and they are a drag -- much fewer fish, but all the maintenance.

Then you have to somehow light this box with enough light for the water portion but not so much that the terrestrial plants burn.

People more ambitious than I have figured this all out, I admit.

I tend to start by considering what animal I want to keep, and then build the habitat around that. I can't think of one species that is ideally kept in a paludarium.

I could be the kind of person who sees the value in a paludarium. After all, the point of interface between land and water is one of the most magical places in the world -- the first New World. But i do think that the more complex the display, the less the frogs are the center of attention -- and frogs are wicked cool.
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Old 03-09-2019, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socratic Monologue View Post
Like kblack3 said, a paludarium is twice the environments, so everything being equal it is twice as much input as either an aquarium or a viv.

But everything isn't equal, since in a paludarium you have this all squashed into one box. So, water processing equipment has to wedge in there, the viv portion has to somehow drain without messing up the water portion, there has to be enough space on the water surface to get your hands in there for maintenance, but there still needs to be enough ground surface for the frogs to feel secure in leaf litter and for microfauna to live.

I've had ~5g freshwater tanks before, and they are a drag -- much fewer fish, but all the maintenance.

Then you have to somehow light this box with enough light for the water portion but not so much that the terrestrial plants burn.

I tend to start by considering what animal I want to keep, and then build the habitat around that. I can't think of one species that is ideally kept in a paludarium.

I could be the kind of person who sees the value in a paludarium. After all, the point of interface between land and water is one of the most magical places in the world -- the first New World. But i do think that the more complex the display, the less the frogs are the center of attention -- and frogs are wicked cool.
Very well said. If dendrobatids are the way that the op wishes to go, I would recommend minimizing the water feature to a puddle in the corner (like 2"x2"X1"deep), or possibly even forgoing it altogether.

And yes frogs are very cool!
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