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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2010, 09:23 PM
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Default Marbled Cristobal

Picked up a pair of Cristobals at Frogday - totally worth the 6 hour commute. Thought I'd share the female who displays a rather unique marbled pattern.

Sorry in advance for the crappy photo, it was taken by camera phone. Will post more pics once I can get my hands on my friends digital SLR.

enjoy



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Old 05-30-2010, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Ooooooo. What a neat looking frog!
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:27 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Thats awesome
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Holy crap that frog is gorgeous!
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Yeah, I saw that, there. Pretty Impressive. I'm glad you posted a pic because I was thinking about that frog this morning and figured I wouldn't see it again. It would be hard to describe it without a pic

If I remember right, M. told me that he has only seen one other like it.
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Leo
Can you share the source of that frog with us?

I have to say....I now have frog envy!

Amazing....I'll need to be on your list for offspring....Put me down

Is it a CB? and do you have any sibling pics?

Shawn
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Yeah this little girl is something else. Thanks for checking her out guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondoggle View Post
Yeah, I saw that, there. Pretty Impressive. I'm glad you posted a pic because I was thinking about that frog this morning and figured I wouldn't see it again. It would be hard to describe it without a pic

If I remember right, M. told me that he has only seen one other like it.
He had both on his table early in the morning. I picked her up as soon as I saw her - so I'm guessing she is the "one other" that Marcus was talking about. Do you know if he ended up selling the one you saw?



Quote:
Originally Posted by sports_doc View Post
Leo
Can you share the source of that frog with us?

I have to say....I now have frog envy!

Amazing....I'll need to be on your list for offspring....Put me down

Is it a CB? and do you have any sibling pics?

Shawn
Hey Shawn,

She is wc/fr. Came in with the SNDF March imports this year. Marcus had two of them available at frogday, both females. I've never seen anything like it, so I picked her up immediately. Definitely, will keep you all updated on any breeding progress with her.

Ahhh...must say it feels nice to finally be on the other side of the frog envy fence
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

WOW!!! and WOW!!! That is all....
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poimandres View Post
He had both on his table early in the morning. I picked her up as soon as I saw her - so I'm guessing she is the "one other" that Marcus was talking about. Do you know if he ended up selling the one you saw?
He told me both were female, but I hadn't realized he had sold the other the same day. The second one was still there after noon, but Marcus cleaned up his table during the auction at the end, so I didn't see if he took her home with him. I'm sure you could ask him. He will definitely remember the frog and I'm sure would understand if the owners wanted to keep in touch.

BTW, congrats.
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

That frogs just crazy...any site data for it?
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Old 05-31-2010, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

holy crap!!! dude you got a kick ass frog!!! now i am really mad i didn't get to go.
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:06 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Hopefully Marcus can get the locale or close, on this special one.....

wow.

that's all I have.....
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

That is wicked. I'd be very interested to know if that is a mutation within the existing population or representative of another population. While I assume it is the former I really wish it was the latter. Nice frog.
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

honestly i think its a just a freak of nature, i don't think there is another population like that, otherwise Marcus would have brough more in i am sure.
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

My assumption as well. Good thing they breed like rabbits, I'm looking forward to seeing offspring in a few months.
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:15 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

yeah i know, i got another clutch of 6 today, the other clutch is only a few days old, they just keep going like crazy. what the hell are planning to do with all these tads?
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

yeah, my keep going as well, and they are still fat as hell. really like them!
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:19 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Leo, i hope your babies turn out to be just like the female
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Old 05-31-2010, 01:30 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

I just contacted Marcus to see if he can gather any further locale info on this one. He is going back to the field in a few weeks, lets see what he comes back with.

I have her with a calling male from the same shipment, hopefully we will see some offspring in the not so far future. I don't know what we can gather from just two specimens, but it seems unlikely that two nearly identical females would result as genetic mutations and show up in the same importation. I guess only time will tell.

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Leo, i hope your babies turn out to be just like the female
You and me both!
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Old 05-31-2010, 02:19 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

OMG! i wasn't expecting that. she is gorgeous.
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Old 05-31-2010, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

I saw that frog on Marcu's table as well. I was tempted to buy it, had the money ready and everything. Oh well my loss is your gain! Enjoy it! Beautiful frog!!
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:05 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Why is everyone questioning the site data on this frog?? Marcus said it's a Crisotbal and that's what it is. Anyone who's seen Cristobals knows that they are highly varible and knowing how much of a stickler Marcus is about locality with the frogs he imports I'm surpised anyone is questioning it. If you're wanting to know specific site date ON Cristobal island... good luck, you don't really get that with any of the panamanian frogs.

Congrats on the frog... I saw it in person and was sad that there wasn't a male to go with but I doubt it would breed true anyways, but one can hope...
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:20 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

WOW!! great looking frog! More salt in the wound....Really wishing that I just dealt with the holiday traffic.

Enjoy
Keith
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbreland View Post
Why is everyone questioning the site data on this frog?? Marcus said it's a Crisotbal and that's what it is. Anyone who's seen Cristobals knows that they are highly varible and knowing how much of a stickler Marcus is about locality with the frogs he imports I'm surpised anyone is questioning it. If you're wanting to know specific site date ON Cristobal island... good luck, you don't really get that with any of the panamanian frogs.

Congrats on the frog... I saw it in person and was sad that there wasn't a male to go with but I doubt it would breed true anyways, but one can hope...
My take is that people are just curious as to whether this frog represents a unique sub-population or is just a one-off of the (as you point out) highly variable Cristobal pumilios. After speaking with Marcus it appears that she is to be labeled as strictly Cristobal, there is no indication that the marbled pattern/coloration represents a sub-group or even breeds true.

As a side note, I could imagine that any "marbled" Cristobal would be much more difficult to find in the wild than the more solid colored ones, particularly when amongst the leaf litter . I have trouble finding her in my viv when she is foraging on the floor as her coloration makes her blend into the leaf litter very well - some serious camouflage. Her colors only really pop when she is against a solid color (i.e. a green leaf) and under direct light.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith campbell View Post
WOW!! great looking frog! More salt in the wound....Really wishing that I just dealt with the holiday traffic.

Enjoy
Keith
Thanks Keith! I was hoping to get a chance to meet you in person, but I understand about the drive. I ended up being in a car for 12 hours over a 24 hour period...not fun.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Amazing frog.
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Old 06-02-2010, 04:13 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Here are a few more pics.

I'm having issues getting decent shots of her. She is a bit on the skittish side, the male is much more composed. I really want to get a good ventral shot of the female, her neck and belly is a deep really beautiful orange, but she is not cooperating with me at the moment.



Not a great shot but shows how she blends into the leaf litter:


The next two shots are of the male:



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Old 06-02-2010, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Very nice colors on both of them. I will have to add those to my, future list.
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

The male has some sort of marbling on him too, hope that pattern turns ot tobe genetic
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Im not even sure you will be able to get some accurate site data on them after the fact but good luck. If this is just a morph or freak of nature why would you breed them for that pattern? Having it would be nice but what will you breed it with? Is the male from within the same locale? Is it guarenteed accuratlely identified? Its a nice looking frog but I see nothing but selective breeding down the road with this pattern. Unless you find that it is from another region or locale inwhich it is common morph or pattern why breed it for the pattern? Good luck with it.
Michael
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Old 06-02-2010, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poimandres View Post
Here are a few more pics.

I'm having issues getting decent shots of her. She is a bit on the skittish side, the male is much more composed. I really want to get a good ventral shot of the female, her neck and belly is a deep really beautiful orange, but she is not cooperating with me at the moment.



Not a great shot but shows how she blends into the leaf litter:


The next two shots are of the male:



interesting, really seems like a pigmentation issue. very cool.
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Old 06-02-2010, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

pigmentation issues are usually attributed to incubation temps which in terms will also prove to be genetic.
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Old 06-02-2010, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julio View Post
The male has some sort of marbling on him too, hope that pattern turns ot tobe genetic
Hmm...I see that on his underside and on his legs with the close up shot. You can't really tell when looking at him in person. I think this type of leg/vent marbling is pretty common amongst some Cristobals but I may stand corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by poison beauties View Post
Im not even sure you will be able to get some accurate site data on them after the fact but good luck. If this is just a morph or freak of nature why would you breed them for that pattern? Having it would be nice but what will you breed it with? Is the male from within the same locale? Is it guarenteed accuratlely identified? Its a nice looking frog but I see nothing but selective breeding down the road with this pattern. Unless you find that it is from another region or locale inwhich it is common morph or pattern why breed it for the pattern? Good luck with it.
Michael
According to Marcus (whose opinion and expertise I significantly trust), this frog is 100% Cristobal Island, whether it came from the north, north-east, east, west, south, etc. of the island we will never know. The male is also 100% Cristobal. Both are from the same import. As I am sure you know, Cristobal's are highly variable in their coloration and pattern, she is just an example of what some of the variation can produce. It is interesting that the in the same importation another very similar colored female appeared, suggesting that this form of marbling may be more common than we think and perhaps occur in higher frequency in the particular population represented by the 2010 SNDF Imports.

I'm not interested in selective breeding for a particular coloration or trait, she is with the pictured male who is from the same locale and despite the hint of ventral marbling (which I did not notice till Julio pointed it out minutes ago) can be considered to be much more in-line with the Cristobals that we currently find in the hobby. I am just interested in seeing how much-if any-of the marbling is genetic. Not looking to produce a captive Marbled Pumilio population akin to the Sky Blue Tincs in the hobby, simply would like to add more variation to the mix. In my hands she and her offspring will only breed with other animals from the same import regardless of their degree of marbling.
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

I understand but are you sure the hole imported group are from the same region or locale?
And by the way people do mess up with id's. For all we know it could be another morph, species or even a hybrid. After all noone has ever seen these.
Why is there no other site info availible on these frogs?
Why are they not in quarentine?


Michael

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Old 06-02-2010, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison beauties View Post
I understand but are you sure the hole imported group are from the same region or locale?
And by the way people do mess up with id's. For all we know it could be another morph, species or even a hybrid.

Michael
Yes! As sure as any of us can be given an imported frog. Marcus does not mess around when it comes to this kind of stuff. Furthermore, as I mentioned she is NOT the only one in the import that looks like this.

I don't understand what you are trying to get at. Care to clarify? Why can't you just accept the fact that this is an example of what a highly variable population can produce?
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:45 PM
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Im not looking for a hardcore debate.
PM sent...
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

Just to clarify an earlier post I made. All the pums (in question) on Marcus' table were represented as from the same locale/importation. Also, they all looked very similar to me as far as belly-speckling and color palette. The two females that Marcus pointed out to me where pointed out because they were just the most extreme examples in the batch.

And for the record, they were beautiful.
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Old 06-02-2010, 09:36 PM
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It's apparent by your questions and by your ideas that you are not familiar with Marcus Breece or SNDF and the extent they have gone to to make sure that all the frogs that come from Panama have specific site data. I can guarantee you, without a doubt, that if Marcus says this is a Crisotbal, then that's what it is. If he said they all came in the same shipment, they did. Honestly your insinuations that Marcus would misidentify any of the frogs that he imports or that he may have hybridized them is very concerning. Going by your join date I can guess that you are either new to the hobby or just new to the board, but Marcus is one of the most respected vendors in the hobby and has single handedly changed the way frogs are being imported from Panama... yes, I mean that. He has made significant efforts to guarantee site data, improve shipping and receiving conditions as well as educate the "farmers" on how to handle these frogs. The beautiful Escudos that you see on the board??? Yeah, he's responsible for those. I understand you questioning is due to not knowing the person that we're talking about but what more proof do you want than pretty much the entire board vouching for SNDF and Marcus saying that his word is good??
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

That is sick. I missed seeing those.
Very nice.
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Old 06-02-2010, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poison beauties View Post
Im not looking for a hardcore debate.
PM sent...
Michael
Michael,

Thanks for the pm and info within, it clarified from where you were coming from - literally. Hopefully this will open up some more dialogue regarding this frog.

I am always open for debate, but I appreciate you not flooding this thread with it. We will chat some more about this I am sure.

I understand that there are some concerns popping up in the frog community regarding precise location for these different looking Cristobals and will do my best to keep them responsibly and separate from all pre-existing lines of Cristobal until more information can be gathered.

Lets keep this thread about what it simply is, a rather unique and IMO awesome looking frog.
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Old 06-03-2010, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Marbled Cristobal

I was only looking to help, That frog is very nice and I personally wouldn't give it up if I were you. It may not be one of a kind but its the only one around here and you hopefully happen to have a compatible pair sitting there in that viv. Get them tested.
Michael
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