Mantella & chameleons?

[fullmonti]

Do any of the chameleons from Madagascar share the same environment with any of the Mantellas and has anyone keep them together in a large terrarium??? At some point in the future I may be building a large terrarium & always wanted to keep a chameleon & thought this might work sense they come from the same place.

Thanks
Jim

[topher]

While they come from the same country, that does NOT mean they are compatible species. Chameleons (my other hobby) require uvb, and lots of ventilation. Keeping chameleons with any dart or mantella would simply not work without a massive Viv that can keep humidity high on the bottom and lots of airflow at the top for a chameleon, which is not really realistic.

[fullmonti]

If this comes about I'm talking about a terrarium 8' long & probably 4-5' tall maybe even taller. I have a 5'X2.5'X4' tall paludarium with 5 fans for air flow for orchids & keeps 80% humidity, so if air circulation & high humidity is the main concern I don't see that being a problem to achieve. I was more concerned about the chameleon trying to eat the frogs? I thought coming from the same environment they might already know not to.

[Tzunu'un]

Chameleons are expected to be able to eat the Mantella, unless you are talking about Brookesia which is a quite small chameleon for which I'm not sure if possible as I've never kept them.

When I kept chameleons in the past they were interested in anything that moved and they could catch with their tongue. They will also chew the larger items to get it down.

Chameleons will eat "pinkie" mice, snails, large crickets and large roaches, etc. so I don't doubt that they would not hesitate to eat the frogs.

Being from the same general location doesn't mean that they share the same biotope or occupy the same strata. A viv is too small to get too much distance between ground loving mantella and arboreal chamaeleons......The chameleon tongue is quite long and impressive.

[topher]

Mixing species is not a good idea, and these really are not two animals that are suitable to mix. Chameleons are very susceptible to stress, whether it be from others in the environment or the environment itself.

Even with a large enclosure,say 4 to 5 ft this is not a good idea. Chameleons are highly susceptible to upper respiratory infections. Fans and an open top to allow for UVB basking access will yield a super low humidity level for the frogs, as well.

Even pigmys (brookesia and rhampoleon) as mentioned above are not good options, as they are just as easily susceptible to URI as their larger, old world counterparts. Not to mention the majority are spread throughout central Africa...

Just not a good combination, whatever you do.

[fullmonti]

All good things to know, not the least is chameleons will eat frogs. The one thing I would say is I have lizards in my paludarium with a UVB bulb & fans & with misting it still holds 80% humidity. I'll have plenty of time between now & if the new build even starts to find a good combo of critters for it.

Thanks all
Jim

[Eiffel70]

I know I am resurrecting a 3+ year old thread but I was wondering if you ever mixed the species you spoke of.

[fullmonti]

No, I never did get any frogs. I didn't want to deal with growing fruit flies to feed them. Ended up just being a really big paludarium with nothing but fish.

[Kmc]

This is an older 'done' thread I realize and more than adequately addressed.

I have encountered it so frequently, the desire to mix because of same country, or "habitat". Or they will site seeing multi species in a zoo or museum exhibit, not realizing that the institutional goal is very often The Exhibit, with loss is a potential given, with the replacement of specimens acceptable to its curation. At least I am aware of this being so in the past.

The inspired optic seems to be the container itself, seeming large. One way I have found to help people adjust their perception is to note how many footsteps is actually required to pass the viv, and how many seconds it takes to wave one's arm across full extent of its boundaries.

More often than not this spatial experiment doesn't exceed two footsteps, and 3 to 4 seconds.

[fullmonti]

My paludarium is still up and running, still only fish in it. We will be building a new house in the next 2-3 years. It will have a south facing greenhouse attached. I have a loose plan for it to be much like a walk in vivarium. If you are interested please check our Facebook page Cordwood House. Go to the beginning of the page for reference photos and info. Let me know what you think.

[madagascarmama]

Even in a very large enclosure, I think the chams may hunt them down. Perhaps it depends on the cham species. I have Vieleds, Panthers, and Kinyongia... most in cages at least 4’ wide and 6’ tall.. The panthers rarely travel below the bottom half of the cage, but the Veileds actually go down to the bottom of their cage to hunt isopods and critters in the soil/leaf litter. I’ve observed them actually moving leaves to find them!! Kinyongia also go to the bottom to hunt food.

My Veileds would make short work of them. I have considered adding mantella to one of my panther’s cages as he has a tongue issue that limits his range and speed . I dont think he would go low enough to see them, and if he did i dont think he could catch them. I eventually decided against it, as chams can be sensitive as it is, and I’d rather not add other variables.

[Rain_Frog]

Many mantellas are endangered. I would not recommend mixing them with anything, especially if you're going to breed them.