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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2011, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

cobras and tigers and dart frogs ohh my!

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Old 08-26-2011, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

For the OP to be asking what the "fair market value" is on these frogs suggests to me that he took more than a pair and is looking to unload for a quick come up. You are a thief. No one respects what you have done. No one cares about your dealings with tigers and hot herps. None of these things gives you the right to steal these creatures and smuggle them out. I hope someone has called... After all, you basically dared the hobby to do so...

You are a thief.

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Old 08-26-2011, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

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Originally Posted by ExoticPocket View Post
Yup. He dun goofed. The cyberpolice are gonna backtrace the comment and arrest you. And if you ever go near the frogs again... consequences will never been the same!!!!!

I was thinking more along the lines of one of the dbags on here going out of there way, and reporting him to the FFWC..
 
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2011, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

U.S. Fish & Wildlife ServiceOffice of Law Enforcement
1875 Century Blvd, Suite 380
Atlanta, Georgia, USA 30359
Phone:404)679-7057 Fax404)679-7065

US FWS Law Enforcement - Contact Us

There is a link to the contact us web form to report this.

I hope a mod calls and directs them to this thread and offers the IP address of the offender to the proper authorities. I figure half a dozen responsible froggers have already "made the call".

Sorry OP, sux to be you.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

Without proof I call this more of a troll behavior but as far as running to the law make sure you know what your doing, I havent a problem telling someone they are inequipped with the knowledge or experience due to mess with very deady snakes as it endangers others. Frogs do not. Ratting out a frogger on the grounds you think he broke the law only hurt the hobby as its used as another reason true or not to shut us down while the person your reporting is laughing and knowing theres no law about lieing about having possibly smuggled frogs.

We have enough of this going on already.........

Michael
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

I don't know, I think when someone flagrantly breaks a law, and makes it a point to highlight it, they are deserving of an investigation. Whether it was simply troll behavior to spark a rise out of responsible people or not, it is worth looking into. I think the more we as a hobby turn a blind eye, the more we as a hobby deserve scrutiny.

JBear

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Originally Posted by poison beauties View Post
Without proof I call this more of a troll behavior but as far as running to the law make sure you know what your doing, I havent a problem telling someone they are inequipped with the knowledge or experience due to mess with very deady snakes as it endangers others. Frogs do not. Ratting out a frogger on the grounds you think he broke the law only hurt the hobby as its used as another reason true or not to shut us down while the person your reporting is laughing and knowing theres no law about lieing about having possibly smuggled frogs.

We have enough of this going on already.........

Michael
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

Yes those who do actively ignore certain things deserve the outcome but where do you draw the line? So if I joke about having some illegal frogs does it mean I really have them or does it mean Im out to start trouble on a public board? I think any and all that are intuned enough in the herp hobby to be able to actually smuggle frogs back are not likely to post up wanting to know what they are worth and hint at smuggling them.

That said its your call but keep in mind running to the authorities for any and every reason can and will come back to bite you.

Michael
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

Considering no one would be so stupid, and there's no pics, and they'd be poisonous if wild collected,

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Old 08-26-2011, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dendroaspis101 View Post
No, i'm not saying I smuggled them......(FYI)they are poisonous , but so are my 40 pairs of cobras, and mambas are that I breed. I am aware of Chytrid, however who would be able to test for that? Exotic reptile vet?
Um, you climbed a waterfall, took wild populations, and set up a tank to accomindate them. You definitely smuggled these frogs into the States and I hope you will be caught and face the music.
  #50 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2011, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

Just give me a bowl of baked beans, wait an hour or so, and I'll get rid of 'em.
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Considering no one would be so stupid, and there's no pics, and they'd be poisonous if wild collected,
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

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Originally Posted by Dendroaspis101 View Post
Thanks for the responses..They are TRUE BRI BRI's ...I know this because thats were " I " found them (just outside the town/village a couple miles north of Panama) along with about 50 more, in less than an hours time,while I was searching for Fer de lance and bushmasters. I located a 100 ft waterfall and hiked up the riverbank where I saw MASS quantities ...but you had to look close, they would spot me from 20-30 feet away and start to hop up the riverbank into the leafy debri..I don't want to sell them..just had no idea of there value..They are doing fantastic...I set there enclosure up EXACTLY how I saw them in the wild..just wish i could find them there natural food source...here in the states...however they love there fruitflys...I will take pics tonight and post them, I did see plenty of blue jeans near the Pacure river (more central costa rica) but bri bri is the only place I found this particular form...They look like the pics above, but more red, than orange...
Aw, man - just for grins, please upload your pix. I've never seen wild Bri Bri ~
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by poison beauties View Post

Oh and your no expert until your sitting infront of a a pissed off female Ophiophagus hannah guarding her eggs. That is worth bragging about...

Michael
How about having a pissed off 14 foot male back you slowly across the floor?

Ed
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Dendroaspis101 View Post
Your 100% right SNAKES ARE VENOMOUS! NOT POISONOUS...My mistake....GEEZ..no kidding they're venomous.....way to point out the small stuff.....I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on some things......didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. ...

p.s. I've had 3 hanna ..malaysians not indos...8', 10', & 14'. Bought my 14'er from a guy named Mike K. down here in florida(is this you?)...never bred them...but if you really want something to brag about, try removing 3 newborn tiger cubs from a 700lb irate Siberian tiger mother that doesn't want to care for them!!Thats bragging rights! and yes I USED to LEGALLY rescue/own tigers and other big cats...after 15 years it became too dangerous...sold the farm!
q!"
Hmm.. the language pattern is similar to a troll that was on here that claimed all kinds of experience in conservation and ended up getting banned for having multiple identities as well as lying about thier credentials....


Ed
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:50 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

That's nuthin'. You should've seen me in action when I took on a flying 50 mm palmetto bug (cockroach) in the garage to protect my wife. It wasn't pretty.

BTW, what is an Ophiophagus hannah anyway and why do they have 14 feet?

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How about having a pissed off 14 foot male back you slowly across the floor?

Ed
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2011, 02:00 AM
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That's nuthin'. You should've seen me in action when I took on a flying 50 mm palmetto bug (cockroach) in the garage to protect my wife. It wasn't pretty.

BTW, what is an Ophiophagus hannah anyway and why do they have 14 feet?
Its the King of all Cobras Jim, Rarely has it been successfully bred in captivity and they are one of the smartest reptiles out there. Always watching you and thinking.

Michael
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:00 AM
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That's nuthin'. You should've seen me in action when I took on a flying 50 mm palmetto bug (cockroach) in the garage to protect my wife. It wasn't pretty.

BTW, what is an Ophiophagus hannah anyway and why do they have 14 feet?
.......<my kind o' hero>.......
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:11 AM
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and yes I USED to LEGALLY rescue/own tigers and other big cats...after 15 years it became too dangerous...sold the farm!
lmao. This is too funny .
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:21 AM
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lmao. This is too funny .
You would think that with time it would involve experience and better practices there for making it safer. But who knows. Its always funny how some go to the absolute extremes to claim experience without the ability to prove it.

Michael
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

Funny how often these kinds of posts happen....I have 93 years of experience with exotics so I know what I'm talking about....I have 9 pet elephants in my backyard....I used to breed lemurs, but got tired of all the bananas...I took a trip to the zoo one time, so I'm an expert...don't people realize that BS is so easy to see through?
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:44 AM
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Funny how often these kinds of posts happen....I have 93 years of experience with exotics so I know what I'm talking about....I have 9 pet elephants in my backyard....I used to breed lemurs, but got tired of all the bananas...I took a trip to the zoo one time, so I'm an expert...don't people realize that BS is so easy to see through?
See not I know your lieing, Noone gets tired of bananas........
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:47 AM
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Funny how often these kinds of posts happen....I have 93 years of experience with exotics so I know what I'm talking about....I have 9 pet elephants in my backyard....I used to breed lemurs, but got tired of all the bananas...I took a trip to the zoo one time, so I'm an expert...don't people realize that BS is so easy to see through?
Well i've been in the hoby 103 years, have 10 (that's right, 10) elephants in my backyard, I successfully bred 6 species of lemurs, but I never got tired of bananas, don't know why anyone would...
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:50 AM
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Many moons ago a friend of mine had one. Other than the one they currently have at the Alligator Farm here in St. Augustine, it's the only one I've seen close up. That thing made an impression on me. My friend had to force feed it and I left the snake room when he'd get it out of its cage. I don't know how, but my friend is in his mid 60s, still alive and has all of his fingers. Considering all the venomous snakes he has had, I can't believe he was only bitten once (carelessly handling a "tame" coral snake). I made the decision back then never to handle venomous snakes, except with a very long snake stick, since everyone I knew personally who did, got bitten at least once.
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Its the King of all Cobras Jim, Rarely has it been successfully bred in captivity and they are one of the smartest reptiles out there. Always watching you and thinking.

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Old 08-27-2011, 02:54 AM
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Well i've been in the hoby 103 years, have 10 (that's right, 10) elephants in my backyard, I successfully bred 6 species of lemurs, but I never got tired of bananas, don't know why anyone would...
You're in Colorado. Don't they get cold in the winter? I keep all mine in the living room. I've been line breeding them to create a pink morph. On a side note, all my neighbors have sworn off drinking.
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

I would hope that the moderators here would consider deleting this thread, as it was clearly intended by the OP to celibrate his/her committing a federal crime and looking for support for this crime amongst the legitimate frogging community.

By allowing smugglers to openly flaunt their crimes in front of the law-abiding frog community, we become complicit in the illegal activity and demonstrate that we are "o.k." with what this person has done.

That's all I say on this matter, Richard.
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JimO View Post
Many moons ago a friend of mine had one. Other than the one they currently have at the Alligator Farm here in St. Augustine, it's the only one I've seen close up. That thing made an impression on me. My friend had to force feed it and I left the snake room when he'd get it out of its cage. I don't know how, but my friend is in his mid 60s, still alive and has all of his fingers. Considering all the venomous snakes he has had, I can't believe he was only bitten once (carelessly handling a "tame" coral snake). I made the decision back then never to handle venomous snakes, except with a very long snake stick, since everyone I knew personally who did, got bitten at least once.
I loved working with them, Mine would watch me constantly, just following me around the room studying me to the point the wife wouldnt go in there. I never found a female big enough to put with our male. While I did not get to try breeding I did put time in with a few older breeders and a venom bank to clock my needed time and experience to get the licenses and I was able to be a part of a breeding project for them. I also had the job of coaxing the female out 14' and getting ahold of her while they pulled the eggs. I was able to hold a newly hatched king cobra in my bare hands. To see a little 9'' snake hood up on your hand is unbelievable.

As for feeding having to force feed wc kings its actually common as they do horrible with adjusting to captivity. You cant just feed them rodents. other snakes and reptiles make up a huge portion of their natural diet. I fed mine black racers as they are farely easy to get down here. Given the chance to work with them again I will but it will be with raising CB for breeding. Last ones I saw went for 1000 each and sold the clutch in a day. They are very hard to get and still breed successfully.

Michael
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
I would hope that the moderators here would consider deleting this thread, as it was clearly intended by the OP to celibrate his/her committing a federal crime and looking for support for this crime amongst the legitimate frogging community.

By allowing smugglers to openly flaunt their crimes in front of the law-abiding frog community, we become complicit in the illegal activity and demonstrate that we are "o.k." with what this person has done.

That's all I say on this matter, Richard.
Richard I really think of all of these threads this one as of late should stand as is as a learning lesson. This person needs to be reminded this is not a joke. Many need to know what risks are involved personally and even the risks this behavior poses to our hobby. We are a lead by example group type.

MIchael
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:08 AM
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well i have lots of herp experience. ive bred dinosaurs like t-rex, and the one that spits stuff, with DNA i got from mosquitos trapped in amber. i even made a sweet animation explaining my process (won a BAFTA!) yep so you know... im pretty cool



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Old 08-27-2011, 03:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsman View Post
I would hope that the moderators here would consider deleting this thread, as it was clearly intended by the OP to celibrate his/her committing a federal crime and looking for support for this crime amongst the legitimate frogging community.

By allowing smugglers to openly flaunt their crimes in front of the law-abiding frog community, we become complicit in the illegal activity and demonstrate that we are "o.k." with what this person has done.

That's all I say on this matter, Richard.
isn't it better to allow idiots to out themselves and suffer all the consequences that entails?
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:34 AM
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Hey Guys,
I don't know if this the same guy that sold me a pair of Tincs about 11 or 12
years ago, but I had to pick these up in Gainsville about a 2+ hour drive from
me, and this guy had a house full of darts and venamous vipers in glass cages. he took my wife, son and I for a short tour of his house, just saying...
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:36 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by poison beauties View Post
As for feeding having to force feed wc kings its actually common as they do horrible with adjusting to captivity. You cant just feed them rodents. other snakes and reptiles make up a huge portion of their natural diet. I fed mine black racers as they are farely easy to get down here. Given the chance to work with them again I will but it will be with raising CB for breeding. Last ones I saw went for 1000 each and sold the clutch in a day. They are very hard to get and still breed successfully.
Usually the issues with the wild caughts are due to how they are handled before they end up in experienced hands. Typically if x-rayed, they show multiple breaks in the ribs in the area of the neck and upper areas of the neck. Wild caught animals are also often lacking in fat bodies to let them adapt to captivity.

Actually the whole rat thing is voodoo husbandry. They do just fine on a diet of rats once they are switched over... I worked with a male that set one of the captive longevity records (well over 22 years) that had been fed nothing but rats for more than 15 years. The wild caughts that replaced it are also fed a diet of virtually all rats (as of April 2010 the female still needed a small amount of scenting on the nose of the rats and male was taking unscented rats) and the male was a wild collected adult and the female was a subadult when imported.

With the last group of imports, the zoos involved in the SSP actually produced enough offspring to satisfy the instutional demand for king cobras and breeding was suspended for at least several years.


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Old 08-27-2011, 03:43 AM
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Well i've been in the hoby 103 years, have 10 (that's right, 10) elephants in my backyard, I successfully bred 6 species of lemurs, but I never got tired of bananas, don't know why anyone would...
PPFFTTTTT that nothing! I've been in the elephant [yes elephant] hobby for "Over 9000!!!" years, raised and bred captive bred pygmy saddle-back hippo snakes, have 357 lemurs in my shower, and who needs Bananas when there's cocoa [NOT Coca] tree in the backyard as well as a trained Phillipines Monkey Eagle specialized in hunting deer in the shed?
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Old 08-27-2011, 03:48 AM
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I have a 30,000 gallon paludarium with a breeding pair of gyarados in the water section and a breeding pair of ivysaur on the land portion. Not to mention my flock of moltress in the air section. Don't worry, I have 150 years of experience with mixed tanks. I exterminate all hybrids produced by the inhabitants with my bare fists.
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

has anybody looked at the tags?

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bouche dag, bri bri, costa rica, oophagus, pumilio, smuggler
switch the B and the D...he's obviously trying to stir the pot...
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

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Originally Posted by boabab95 View Post
has anybody looked at the tags?



switch the B and the D...he's obviously trying to stir the pot...

ninja mod added that
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

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has anybody looked at the tags?



switch the B and the D...he's obviously trying to stir the pot...
Actually that was me....thought it fit pretty well...wasn't trying to tick anyone off
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:09 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

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I have a 30,000 gallon paludarium with a breeding pair of gyarados in the water section and a breeding pair of ivysaur on the land portion. Not to mention my flock of moltress in the air section. Don't worry, I have 150 years of experience with mixed tanks. I exterminate all hybrids produced by the inhabitants with my bare fists.
When you have juvenile gyarados, let me know. My six year old son would kill for one of those.
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by fieldnstream View Post
Actually that was me....thought it fit pretty well...wasn't trying to tick anyone off
darn...i thought was going to be a good point...LOL
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:17 AM
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Usually the issues with the wild caughts are due to how they are handled before they end up in experienced hands. Typically if x-rayed, they show multiple breaks in the ribs in the area of the neck and upper areas of the neck. Wild caught animals are also often lacking in fat bodies to let them adapt to captivity.

Actually the whole rat thing is voodoo husbandry. They do just fine on a diet of rats once they are switched over... I worked with a male that set one of the captive longevity records (well over 22 years) that had been fed nothing but rats for more than 15 years. The wild caughts that replaced it are also fed a diet of virtually all rats (as of April 2010 the female still needed a small amount of scenting on the nose of the rats and male was taking unscented rats) and the male was a wild collected adult and the female was a subadult when imported.

With the last group of imports, the zoos involved in the SSP actually produced enough offspring to satisfy the instutional demand for king cobras and breeding was suspended for at least several years.


Ed
I had a friend in Tampa Fl. who kept and bred a great many venemous snakes, he had a gift of breeding the ones that are usually tough to breed. Among those were King Cobras, I know firsthand he bred them twice as I saw the juvies. Unfortunately about 6 years ago he took his own life with no warning, the venemous hobby lost a friend and advocate with his loss.
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:36 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

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Ussually the issues with the wild caughts are due to how they are handled before they end up in experienced hands. Typically if x-rayed, they show multiple breaks in the ribs in the area of the neck and upper areas of the neck. Wild caught animals are also often lacking in fat bodies to let them adapt to captivity.
I fully understand this, I was involved in many imports for friends having to sex and even accurately ID some of these HOTS. Its sad to see the damage done during the collecting and packing of them.

Quote:
Actually the whole rat thing is voodoo husbandry. They do just fine on a diet of rats once they are switched over... I worked with a male that set one of the captive longevity records (well over 22 years) that had been fed nothing but rats for more than 15 years. The wild caughts that replaced it are also fed a diet of virtually all rats (as of April 2010 the female still needed a small amount of scenting on the nose of the rats and male was taking unscented rats) and the male was a wild collected adult and the female was a subadult when imported.
Again I understand this as far as the ability for them to live off rodents but are you saying its natural? or even easy for most to adapt to because in my own and other friends experience it was hell to do with older kings. Ive seen the slury caulk mix used too but as far as rodents I have seen an over abundance of unnatural weight put on in kings through this practice. We stuck to feeding well fed racers though I did offer a few small rabbits now and then.

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With the last group of imports, the zoos involved in the SSP actually produced enough offspring to satisfy the instutional demand for king cobras and breeding was suspended for at least several years.
Yes I can see this but the institutions and zoos do not share with hobbyists. Id also see it fit to suspend the breeding for time to allow the cb to mature and see if they are any easier to deal and successfully breed. I havent seen an F2 King in the hobby.


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Originally Posted by billschwinn View Post
I had a friend in Tampa Fl. who kept and bred a great many venemous snakes, he had a gift of breeding the ones that are usually tough to breed. Among those were King Cobras, I know firsthand he bred them twice as I saw the juvies. Unfortunately about 6 years ago he took his own life with no warning, the venemous hobby lost a friend and advocate with his loss.
That is a huge loss Bill. So few have these natural ability's. Id like to see more cb as we all know whats eventually going to happen to many of these snakes in the wild. They are already hunted for numerous reasons out there. When I was last in Thailand they were selling flame broiled cobra and even had them mounted with wires in little plastic boxes.

Michael
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:36 AM
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Default Re: Can anyone tell me what these frogs are worth?

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81788220/?lt=em
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