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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2010, 04:21 PM
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Default The feel of the lounge lately

Im going to say this first. Sorry If I offend anyone here. But the over all feel of the lounge latley is a bit uncomfortable. The right to practice whatever religion you choose is an amazing freedom we have as americans. But latley It seems like it is being pushed on this board. Weither you practice or not. It kinda reminds me of my super religous friends preaching to me everytime we hung out. Untill I had a talk with them one day. Cant we talk about something else?

Yeah I know I can look away and not read these posts. But I like to treat all posts the same and I try to read almost all the new posts I can. I dont want to censor myself from reading anything. But come on now give it a little rest. Its almost getting as bad as seeing a new mixing thread pop up in the begginer section.
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Old 09-14-2010, 04:41 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

I have to agree with you 100%. I am farily new to this board, however I am not new to being a member of forums. I post all over the internet, from car, aquarium, vivarium, and dart forums and I have never seen this amount of discussion over unrelated items. There is a time and place for stuff like this. Why cant we all talk about what we all have in common? The love for amphibians and the construction of our personal habitats.

And you can say "dont read it if you dont want to", but its tough to miss all of it here. It doesnt bring a warm and welcoming feeling to new members at all.
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Old 09-14-2010, 05:09 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

It's the lounge for a reason. Open to all reasonable conversation. The don't read it recommendation is a sound one IMO.

Thankfully not all of them are religious or political ones.
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Old 09-14-2010, 05:56 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

Maybe the lounge should be something that does not come up under NEW POST??? Make it so if your a person looking for off topic STUFF you will know where to go and find it. Just a thought!

I am thinking more in lines of new members seeing these daily off topic slams, then the on topic frog and plant questions and posts that the board was made for.

I understand that it is the LOUNGE but................
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:05 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

that is in the works I believe^
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:07 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

I see what you're saying Kurt, but the lounge wasn't the first thing I was looking for when I joined.

I went straight to care and construction. There was enough info there to keep me busy for months. lol I don't think I checked out the lounge for quite some time. Can't remember...

The lounge is what it is. A place to talk about things non-frog related.

As long as noone's hurt, I don't see why the off topic stuff is a big deal. I have no interest in these threads and haven't been paying much attention to them at all. The odd skim over and that's it.

The BIG banner when you open a page is a bit annoying though.
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:37 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

May be have 'the lounge' and 'the chapel'?
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:43 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

I really like the idea of having the lounge excluded from the "new posts." When I just looked at the new posts, there were 5 threads about all this. I don't mind religion, just hate to see it pushed on everyone.
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Old 09-14-2010, 06:58 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

Religion, Politics etc has tendency to split people and create anger and separation where if it wasn't allowed there would be none. I mod a reef forum and after a month or so of the same types of posts, flame wars, arguments it became apparent that it wasn't needed on a reef forum. There are other forums for that discussion, I kinda see it the same way here. All these post that are pro/anti faith has done nothing but create hostility and anger. I haven't been on this board all that long but I find that kind of provocative discussions unnecessary.....This forum is about dart frogs all of the extra curricular stuff will tend to push people away and the information on this board will end up suffering because people will quit communicating with each other and the tone gets to be hostile between parties.

As far as "no ones hurt" words do and attitudes do as much as people won't say it, it does. Then you will have others say get over it quit beginning sensitive bla, bla, bla. In the end the forum will suffer as other leave or just quit posting.

Are they really that important that we have to discuss them here? Does it add anything wither it's in the Lounge or not to the forum? In the end I don't think it does and I am sure there are others that will agree that it don't so why even bother with it....Yes you have the freedom of speech, but if this is a privet owned board your freedom of speech ends after entering the forum as the owners have the right to regulate all discussions they wish and what subjects they wish.

Members also have to understand that if the owners see this as a business which most forums are they have to protect what is their intellectual property from members bringing harm to there product.i

Just my 2cents from a Mod of one of the biggest reef forums on the net that has dealt with this issue. Take it as you will.....

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Old 09-14-2010, 07:04 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

Azurel for President!
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:40 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

Here is what I don't get. When I see a thread that doesn't interest me, I don't click it. I certainly don't respond to it. I CERTAINLY don't hurl abuses at the OP because I read a post that I wasn't interested in.

I'm not really interested in much of what this handful of posters are offering, but it has really bummed me out to see how abusive certain ones have been over it. I stopped reading them because I was losing a lot of respect for people that I had always liked. A lot of these people are the same ones that I remember citing "free speech" (correctly) in the thread over the proposed NYC mosque.

If you think I am referring to you, then consider this. We live in a country where someone can knock on your door and try to engage you in a religious discussion if they want to. That is a protected American right...plain and simple. If you think that should be changed then you are at odds with both the Supreme Court and the founding fathers. It's as American as the freedom of the press or the right to bear arms...literally.

Now I can understand someone being irritated because they got an unwelcome knock on their door that they had to answer and try to navigate through a "no thank you"...but that is NOT the situation here. You saw the subject line, you clicked it, you read it, all on your own volition, then posted about how incensed you were that it was there. That is a lot of trouble to go to for an issue that you have no agenda over.

I have never seen anyone on THIS board spoken to the way these original posters have on any issues before. Can you imagine how soon the term "hate crime" would have come up if people had responded to the latest "Drag Queen" thread with the same vehemence as this, even calling for a subject ban on the issue.

It's pretty simple. If think the subject is stupid, instead of trying to having that person silenced, just quit investing in it.
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:44 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondoggle View Post

It's pretty simple. If think the subject is stupid, instead of trying to having that person silenced, just quit investing in it.
Until they open new ones....new threads....other threads....more threads.....different threads...... but same topic.
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:48 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

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Originally Posted by Philsuma View Post
Until they open new ones....new threads....other threads....more threads.....different threads...... but same topic.
That's a valid point, I'll give you that, but where would those threads be now if their detractors had not kept bumping them.
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Old 09-14-2010, 07:51 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

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Originally Posted by Boondoggle View Post
That's a valid point, I'll give you that, but where would those threads be now if their detractors had not kept bumping them.
Judging by the past couple of weeks, they would be reposted to bump themselves.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:00 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

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Originally Posted by Philsuma View Post
Until they open new ones....new threads....other threads....more threads.....different threads...... but same topic.
I'm out of thanks, but you nailed it. I get tired of having 3, 4, 5, maybe 6 religion threads coming up every time I hit "New Posts". I'm not interested in having religion shoved in my face, I'm interested in frogs. I'm not nearly as nice to the ones who knock on my door and wake me up, if they have the right to trespass and disturb me in my home then I certainly have the right to tell them to go pound sand.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:03 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
I'm out of thanks, but you nailed it. I get tired of having 3, 4, 5, maybe 6 religion threads coming up every time I hit "New Posts". I'm not interested in having religion shoved in my face, I'm interested in frogs. I'm not nearly as nice to the ones who knock on my door and wake me up, if they have the right to trespass and disturb me in my home then I certainly have the right to tell them to go pound sand.
Curious to see the reception I would recieve if I start knocking on Church doors preaching Atheism. Probably less friendly then what they got on here
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:10 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

I started the funny poster thread and it gets mad praise and views but I would gladly have it removed and all the other "fun" threads: Fav movie quotes, Funny videos ect ect if that's what it took to solve the current problem.

Isn't this supposed to be a dart frog forum?

Quick fix would be like Tony said...ALL lounge threads NEVER show up as new posts.

I'll take a hybrid or mixing thread any day of the week over this.....at least those issues are germane to the hobby.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:10 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

I'm a Mod on a health and disease monitoring site with many thousands of members all over the world. We have a clear prohibition on bashing any nation, ethnic group, religion, belief system, government, political system, individual, etc. We have a set of sub-forums for opinions, including something akin to the Lounge. Despite the diverse international participation, I've not seen the kind of anger displayed over what someone believes that I have seen in the Lounge recently. There are disagreements, for sure, but most of us just ignore the threads that get us worked up.

If you have a problem with a thread of any kind, the best way to move it down the list is to ignore it. Every time you post, it goes to the top. If DB chooses to prohibit certain topics, such as religion and politics, in the Lounge, then that is fine. However, one purpose of the Lounge is for us to get to know one another beyond our frog interests. If all we can discuss are issues directly related to the hobby, then I believe the Lounge should be eliminated.

If, however, we truly want to get to know one another, then prohibitions should be directed at behavior rather than topics, as is made clear at the top of every thread in the Lounge. I would hate to see the site start banning any topic that offends someone or the Lounge might have to be limited to discussion of the weather.

My point is that if we choose to have a thread truly devoted to off-topic discussions aimed and getting acquainted, and not just for non-controversial small talk, then what topics should be banned? There have been Lounge thread titles that indicated to me that I would not like the topic or the discussion, so I have simply ignored them.

For my part, I'd rather either let people discuss who they really are (which includes belief systems and political views), at the risk of being offended, or see the Lounge closed. Polite chats about non-controversial topics are nice, but many disagree on what is considered "polite" and restrictions of topics would not allow us to get to know one another.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:14 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

It would be great if the lounge topics didn't show up in the NEW POSTS area. I come here for issues relating to PDF's and the recent posts around "how great Jesus is" showing up everytime I come to the new posts section doesn't make this non-believer feel welcome on this forum.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:23 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

What did you all do to the Lounge? It worries me that Zach has to post a NOTICE at the top of the page telling people to respect other people and behave like adults. Come on, seriously!?

Mods maybe should just get on the Banned wagon. Take care of the few weeds so the rest of us can have fun.

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Old 09-14-2010, 08:35 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermfly View Post
It would be great if the lounge topics didn't show up in the NEW POSTS area. I come here for issues relating to PDF's and the recent posts around "how great Jesus is" showing up everytime I come to the new posts section doesn't make this non-believer feel welcome on this forum.
I would be fine with this as well. But, I do think there has been a bit of over-reaction here. In the interest of intellectual honesty, I looked at the Lounge threads going back nearly a month and counted five threads with something in the subject indicating a religious theme and four related to evolution, one of which was also one of the five. At least two of the threads were closed. So, that's about two religion/evolution threads (assuming the evolution threads involve religious discussion) created per week.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I can't see where, recently at least, there have been up to five religious threads visible under new posts at any time in the past month. I only opened the recently closed thread that started all this because I saw it was closed and was curious. Frankly, I wouldn't have looked at it otherwise. I don't understand all the anger. When I looked back, I was expecting at least 20 religious threads in the last month based on the comments here.

Unfortunately, my impression of folks is influenced when the discussion gets out of hand. I agree with Phil, I'd rather see the Lounge closed if people are getting bent out of shape over the discussions. I could do without the jokes and music taste threads if it means peace.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:36 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
If there was a simple thread where people shared their beliefs or lack thereof in a civil manner I would have no issue with it, but when it is thread after thread bashing science (sunblock causes cancer, evolution is false, hospital birth and vaccination cause autism, etc.) or promoting one very narrow religious view while bashing all other religions and nonbelievers and recruiting trolls to come post nothing but backup for those threads, then crying about being bullied when people disagree there is a problem. That goes beyond simple sharing and creates a hostile feeling for anyone who doesn't subscribe to that narrow view, it is impossible to have a civil discussion with someone who behaves in that manner and claims a mandate from their god to do so.
Seems to me you could just not read the thread. You know way too many details about them if you are ignoring them.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:36 PM
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I'll second Tony on this one. I myself had said some things on these threads that I would not say under normal circumstances, but after hitting your head against a brickwall time and time again the frustration just gets the better of you. There have been other religious posters on here such as Seth who I can disagree with politely and respect his point of view which is in stark contrast to the two people here responsible for the majority of the mayhem.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:38 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony View Post
If there was a simple thread where people shared their beliefs or lack thereof in a civil manner I would have no issue with it, but when it is thread after thread bashing science (sunblock causes cancer, evolution is false, hospital birth and vaccination cause autism, etc.) or promoting one very narrow religious view while bashing all other religions and nonbelievers and recruiting trolls to come post nothing but backup for those threads, then crying about being bullied when people disagree there is a problem. That goes beyond simple sharing and creates a hostile feeling for anyone who doesn't subscribe to that narrow view, it is impossible to have a civil discussion with someone who behaves in that manner and claims a mandate from their god to do so.
I agree with you if that it how it has been. I honestly haven't even looked at most of those threads. I know certain things will get me fired up and I'm too old to get overly fired up too often. Life's too short and there are too many cool frogs I want to buy.
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Frogtofall View Post
Seems to me you could just not read the thread. You know way too many details about them if you are ignoring them.
I never claimed to be ignoring them. I wish I could but those threads are such train wrecks, I can't help looking and then I get irritated, I'm sure it has been the same for many other participants. I saw a great anonymous quote the other day: "Religion is like a penis. It is fine to have one, it is fine to be proud of it, just don't wave it around in public or try to shove it down my throat."
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:01 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

I do find it absolutely disgusting that the only thread the moderators have closed is the one asking whether our society should evolve beyond faith in a higher power. All the religious proselytizing is condoned but any statements against religious are prevented.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:06 PM
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Default re: The feel of the lounge lately

earthfrogs thread was closed also.
They are shut down becuase of violations of the UA, not the subject matter
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge latley

Everyone has their own opinions to this here is mine.

Why not ditch the off topic stuff? The problem is that many people post beliefs and opinions on here and even push them when they would not dare in a face to face conversation. I dont understand this as your just as likely to be remembered on her and a babbling idiot as you are a dedicated frogger.
A dedicated board to our hobby would not have near as much drama and would not be crowded by other interests. Religion is just one of the issues that is not really needed here. Would it hurt this hobby to tell people to talk non hobby related talk to the chats or somehwere else? Its here now and all of us are guilty of making it into more than it should be. Veiws, reply's and debates on it just guarentee more in the future. Why not drop it all?

Anyone with a grudge or problem with people on this board or the board could fill this thing up with little effort. There is Football, Politics, Health, Current Events, and other stuff. I say ditch it all.

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Old 09-14-2010, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by vugger#1 View Post
Maybe the lounge should be something that does not come up under NEW POST.
This has worked great on another forum I am a member of. I did not like the idea at first but it turned out great. Those that seek drama will go to the lounge. Those that come here for frogs will be notified of new frog posts.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

Aren't you forgetting all the drama from the mixing and hybrid threads? They were just as bad as this stuff.
Don't worry, This will go away soon enough and something else will take its place. Hopefully it just stays in the lounge and not in the frog areas again.
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

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Originally Posted by bussardnr View Post
Aren't you forgetting all the drama from the mixing and hybrid threads? They were just as bad as this stuff.
Not really Nate.....

I may not agree with an aspect of husbandry that someone promotes but I'll defend their right to at least be able to post it and argue it's merits ect.

Mixing and Hybrids is, at least, germane to dart frog keeping. Not sayin' it's right.

But


Religion is.....not
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Old 09-14-2010, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

Anyone who knows me on here knows that I'm a huge proponent of personal freedom. Probably much more than a vast majority of people in the United States. If you aren't hurting another person against their will you should be able to do whatever you want within reason. Consenting adults should be able to do drugs, have sex, worship snakes, and whatever else they want as long as it doesn't affect my freedom to do as I please.

The freedom of/from religion is an amazing right we have here and no matter what my feelings on the subject are I would never take that away. However I do expect someone to back up claims they are making with logic and reason. If they cannot then it's my right to have a dissenting opinion. And yes when I explain my position and someone is mimicking a brick wall I get frustrated.

I'm also not here to coddle anyone. If that's what you need I would suggest you stay off the internet, or at the very least stick to talking with people of like opinions. If you think I was being out of line you have no idea what kind of people are out there. That discussion was tame compared to what I've seen. Regardless for inflammatory posts I've made during the discussion I'm willing to apologize and say live and let live.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermfly View Post
It would be great if the lounge topics didn't show up in the NEW POSTS area.
This is something we mods have discussed before and we're taking another look at. There are some other ideas as well that we're considering. There are many things to consider and balance.

In the mean time, the key here is to just ignore the threads you're not interested in. Simple as that. Making it easier to do that is secondary to the real issue. Those who can't simply ignore them, and choose to pick fights, maybe with the hope we'll continue to lock down these threads, aren't fooling anyone and will be dealt with.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

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Making it easier to do that is secondary to the real issue. Those who can't simply ignore them, and choose to pick fights, maybe with the hope we'll continue to lock down these threads, aren't fooling anyone and will be dealt with.
What if we think that the OP is one picking the fight ?

Hopefully they can be "delt with" as well.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

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What if we think that the OP is one picking the fight ?

Hopefully they can be "delt with" as well.
Not picking a fight, just trying to save the heathens...
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

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Not picking a fight, just trying to save the heathens...
Yep

Cortez saved a whole lot of Mayans too.
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

IMO, attention seeking posts are better left alone. If you give the seeker the attention they crave, they continue to post. If they don't get their fix, they move on to more responsive grounds.

ymmv
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

Can't we have an 18+ lounge that doesn't require moderation. It can be tucked away somewhere and only physical threats reported. It sure sounds like it would be a lot of fun to watch.
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

I just dont understand it...im am a pagan...not once in any post have I ever fealt the need to discuss my religion. This is a frog forum. If I want to talk religion I will join a religeous forum...same with cars, motorcycles, fitness ect.

If a particular individuals posts are ALL about a subject not related to the forum then that person is no better than a spammer and might as well be trying to sell us Viagra or cialis...my 2c
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Old 09-15-2010, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: The feel of the lounge lately

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Can't we have an 18+ lounge that doesn't require moderation. It can be tucked away somewhere and only physical threats reported. It sure sounds like it would be a lot of fun to watch.
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