Look at what I've been taking care of! - Dendroboard
Dendroboard

Go Back   Dendroboard > Miscellaneous > The Lounge
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read Advertise

Support Our Sponsors
No Threads to Display.

facebook

Like Tree5Likes

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 06:38 PM
M_Rybecky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 401
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Look at what I've been taking care of!




I named her Mini Mouse!!! Shes a raccoon... duh, lol. I think shes about 5 weeks old!
My dads friend found her in a gutter they moved her undera tree, they thought she might have fallen out. The next day (saturday) they came back and she was still there. I've been feeding her witha baby bottle, soooo cute!

Only problem is that if they are raised at "pets" you can release them. Raccoons cant really be demsticated either...
I called a Wild Life/Livestock rescue and they told me that it is illegal to rescue raccoons and that if oyu find one your supposed to have it put to sleep. If they were to get cought taking care of her in their license would be taken away!

Does anyone else find this worng? They made this law casue raccoons are a "nuisance" and they blame it on rabies even tho there hasnt beeen any problems with it here in over 3 years! They were here first... and now they are practicly trying to stop them from living here
__________________
Megan
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 06:47 PM
divingne1's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canton, GA
Posts: 2,209
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Make her a pen outside so she can still see nature and then when she is old enough to fend for herself, leave the pen open so she can come and go as she pleases. If someone questions you on it, just say it was an old dog pen or something like that and this racoon has started using it as it's home.

Oh yeah, when she grows up, she will be able to snap your fingers in half with one bite.
__________________
Candy
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 06:57 PM
M_Rybecky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 401
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Thats a pretty good idea! I found someone who will taker her! Hes taken in a few babies and hes has had great sucess letting them back into the wild.
__________________
Megan
 
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 07:01 PM
MonarchzMan's Avatar
TWI/ASN
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,363
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 20
Thanked 214 Times in 97 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

I'd say kill it. It might sound mean, but raccoons are doing absolutely fine without the additional help of headstarting them. Raccoons have caused the decline of many herp species in the US and IMO, their populations need to be signficantly reduced or else we'll likely see the extinctions of a number of species because of this animals.

Put it to sleep and save countless baby turtles.
__________________
-JP

Oophaga pumilio Researcher - 1 New Morph So Far

http://monarchzman.deviantart.com/gallery/
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 07:21 PM
M_Rybecky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 401
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Not trying to be mean but thats a terrible thing to say, lol. It would be like saying lets kill you because you use paper and inorder to get paper we have to destroy forests. Or lets kill me casue i consume meat and its killing animals.

Its not like they werent supposed to be here in the first place... Its natraul for them to eat frogs. Personally i dont have many frogs near me, i live by the beach. But even if i did i wouldnt kill an innocent baby raccoon to prevent it from eating frogs. Its nature and we have disturbed it, not them. And in the process we have made these innocent animals look bad.
tinclover likes this.
__________________
Megan
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 07:22 PM
Marinarawr's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cushing ME
Posts: 1,027
Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

When I was about 14 we found a mother raccoon and 4 kits living inside the roof of my aunt's cabin. We tried to capture the mother in a "have-a-heart" trap and then collect the kits but instead she took one of them and "sacrificed" the rest. So we collected the 3 that had been left behind, bottle fed them and spent a few hours "oooing" and "awwing" over how cute they were and then we took them to the wildlife rehabilitator.

I have heard of people making raccoons their pets but I just don't see it being practical. I think you made the right decision to enjoy the little one for a bit and then turn it over to someone with experience. Not that you couldn't have cared for the kit on your own... but I doubt you'd enjoy coming home to find your little masked bundle of joy ravaging your frog tanks for a snack .

You're right though... super cute .
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 07:42 PM
MonarchzMan's Avatar
TWI/ASN
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,363
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 20
Thanked 214 Times in 97 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Rybecky View Post
Not trying to be mean but thats a terrible thing to say, lol. It would be like saying lets kill you because you use paper and inorder to get paper we have to destroy forests. Or lets kill me casue i consume meat and its killing animals.

Its not like they werent supposed to be here in the first place... Its natraul for them to eat frogs. Personally i dont have many frogs near me, i live by the beach. But even if i did i wouldnt kill an innocent baby raccoon to prevent it from eating frogs. Its nature and we have disturbed it, not them. And in the process we have made these innocent animals look bad.
It's about management. We've altered their habitat such that raccoons can survive and thrive and other species are having trouble. Are you suggesting that we leave it as is and let all of those other species suffer and go extinct? Turtle populations are crashing here in the US largely because of those raccoons.

Raccoons should be managed just like anything else. Without management, you see the problems that we have now. If the population is controlled as it would be before we arrived, we would not see the massive declines happening because of raccoons.

Not only that, but by hand raising it, you're going to get it humanized. It may not get domesticated, but it will forever associate humans with food, and when you release it, it will hang around houses and root through garbage and try to break into houses to get the food inside. Raccoons are smart, and they're determined when they know where a food source is.

If we were to let things happen without management, many species would go extinct. Managing raccoons is of vital importance to help protect a number of other species (turtles, frogs, toads, birds, etc). Yes, they're supposed to eat these animals, and when things are balanced, these animals can handle that pressure, but when raccoon populations explode because of human habitation and some convoluted protection because they're "cute and fuzzy", those populations cannot handle it, and will crash, as we're seeing now.
__________________
-JP

Oophaga pumilio Researcher - 1 New Morph So Far

http://monarchzman.deviantart.com/gallery/
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 07:46 PM
atlfrog's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: ATL, GA, USA
Posts: 876
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

That's awesome. It's too bad most times when they grow older they should be released immediately. They can become quite vicious. But it's nice to see someone with a heart and willing to do this. Thanks for sharing.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 08:15 PM
M_Rybecky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 401
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

No i'm not saying we should leave it as is but we shouldnt kill innocent animals! There would be no point in killing her, its not going to stop the other thousands of raccoons from eating frogs and turtles so it would be completely point less to just kill her off like that. Its cruel. We have made raccoons this way, we are the invaders, and its our fault. Nothing gives us the right to just kill them as we get the chance to. Maybe if we didnt build on every inch of land there would be more habitat for all the animals to thrive. But think about it... That house you're living in probably could have been the home of a bunch of trees where raccoons could have lived. And on the ground there could have been a pond where turtles and frogs and fish could have lived. Maybe a fox burrow, or maybe even a bear. But its not because yuo invaded thrie space. By kicking them out and taking over you have forced such animals to dig threw your garbage for food because their natural food supplies can no longer live where your house is and get used to humans because that what they see everyday.
__________________
Megan
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 08:17 PM
M_Rybecky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 401
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by atlfrog View Post
That's awesome. It's too bad most times when they grow older they should be released immediately. They can become quite vicious. But it's nice to see someone with a heart and willing to do this. Thanks for sharing.
I know! It sucks. My dads friend had one when i was younger. He was so much fun till he hit about a year old! I have found her a "raccoon rehab" Where she will be able to be released into the wild and survive!
__________________
Megan
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 08:32 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 47
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Fish and wildlife told you its illegal to rescue them? Is this because of rabies scare or are they ravaging local wildlife? Also does the person you're giving it to know that its illegal to rescue these animals? Just trying to understand the situation.

-Lucas
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 08:34 PM
M_Rybecky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 401
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

There has been no probelem with rabies in my area in over 3 years. They were supposed to lift the law but have not. The person i'm giving her to lives out of state where it is legal to help them. He is coming to pick her up tomorrow.
__________________
Megan
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 08:35 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,018
Thanks: 3
Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Without a proper medical checkout it is very dangerous to release an animal back to the wild. It may have built up an immunity to a disease and carry it to the other wild animals. As cute as it is and as honorable your intentions are, it is not in the best interest of the wild animals for you to try and save this one. It is all about natural selection and for what ever the reason he was selected not to make it.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 08:38 PM
M_Rybecky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 401
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Well there are people who save them and she was given a chance so i'm not going to just kill her. Thank you for your concern.
__________________
Megan
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 08:40 PM
MonarchzMan's Avatar
TWI/ASN
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,363
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 20
Thanked 214 Times in 97 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Rybecky View Post
No i'm not saying we should leave it as is but we shouldnt kill innocent animals! There would be no point in killing her, its not going to stop the other thousands of raccoons from eating frogs and turtles so it would be completely point less to just kill her off like that. Its cruel. We have made raccoons this way, we are the invaders, and its our fault. Nothing gives us the right to just kill them as we get the chance to. Maybe if we didnt build on every inch of land there would be more habitat for all the animals to thrive. But think about it... That house you're living in probably could have been the home of a bunch of trees where raccoons could have lived. And on the ground there could have been a pond where turtles and frogs and fish could have lived. Maybe a fox burrow, or maybe even a bear. But its not because yuo invaded thrie space. By kicking them out and taking over you have forced such animals to dig threw your garbage for food because their natural food supplies can no longer live where your house is and get used to humans because that what they see everyday.
If we're not to leave it as is and we're not to kill animals to control them, then how are we to manage populations? Birth control? That didn't work in deer. Sterilize them? Not really working for lamprey. Remove habitat? Raccoons are adaptable and can live anywhere.

Don't get me wrong, killing animals sucks. I don't like it and don't want to do it, but understanding that management of populations can mean culling animals is something I've come to accept. The loss of one live means saving many, and that in my mind, is far more important. Not only for other species but for raccoons as well. Overpopulation leads to sick, emaciated animals that don't have the quality of life they should have. And don't think that I'm biased. I'd happily go to the Everglades to help control the Burmese Python problem there or to California to control the bullfrog populations there.

What you suggest is known as the Tragedy of the Commons. You're right in that if you were to protect that one animal, it wouldn't make much of a difference, if it was JUST that one animal. But how many people do you think have the same mentality that you do? If 100 people have the same mentality, then you all of the sudden are making more of an impact. You also underestimate how much damage a single raccoon can do over the course of its life. Raccoons are doing just dandy and there is very little that could be done to make their populations decline to a threatened state.

Managing a population is not cruel. Killing an animal is not cruel (not in the method suggested). What's cruel is to let a KNOWN problem continue. What's cruel is to be okay with the EXTINCTION and EXTIRPATION of species. That's cruel.

Now, in regards to my house. First, I live in an apartment complex, so I am supporting congregating people to smaller areas so that they don't sprawl out and take up more space. But for the sake of argument, let's refer to my parents' house. It takes up space (but they don't live in a mansion, and it takes up an area that would not remove significant amounts of habitat), but we're rather eco-friendly. Most of our property is wooded. We plant native plants in gardens, put up bird houses, and encourage amphibian and reptile habitation. We don't use pesticides so as not to contaminate areas. So while you may be right about some people, you're not right about me.
__________________
-JP

Oophaga pumilio Researcher - 1 New Morph So Far

http://monarchzman.deviantart.com/gallery/
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 09:01 PM
M_Rybecky's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 401
Thanks: 11
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

I am in no way supporting EXTINCTION and EXTIRPATION. I am supporting the fact that everything should be given a chance. By killing things its supporting EXTINCTION and EXTIRPATION. She is not going to be killed, sorry. You can go in your back yard and shoot some if you really feel that raccoons should die... personally i wouldnt recomend it.
The house thing was an example... making a point.

I dont believe that we should just kill things. There are other animals that eat frogs and turtles why cant we kill them to. We should try to prevent extinction because all of it is happening because of us but killing other animals isnt going to solve anything. It was just create more of a problem.

I would appreciate if you didnt post in this thread anymore. I like saving animals i have done it many times and will continue to. What you say or try to argue wont make me change my mind or make me look like a bad person no matter how many bad rep points you give me.
__________________
Megan
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 09:07 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,018
Thanks: 3
Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Rybecky View Post
Well there are people who save them and she was given a chance so i'm not going to just kill her. Thank you for your concern.
I didn't mean it like that, sorry. I do not think I could kill it either. There has to be an alternative captive placement rather then releasing it back to the wild??
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 09:14 PM
Geckoguy's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 484
Thanks: 5
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

I went to high school with people who rescued 3 babies from a dead mother that was hit by a car in front of thier home and they kept them their entire lives. They were not agressive and basically like house cats. She had her high school senior photo taken with all 3! So I say if you want to keep them as pets do it there is no need for the senseless killing.
__________________
"UNLESS someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not." -Seuss-
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 09:30 PM
MonarchzMan's Avatar
TWI/ASN
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,363
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 20
Thanked 214 Times in 97 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Rybecky View Post
I am in no way supporting EXTINCTION and EXTIRPATION. I am supporting the fact that everything should be given a chance. By killing things its supporting EXTINCTION and EXTIRPATION. She is not going to be killed, sorry. You can go in your back yard and shoot some if you really feel that raccoons should die... personally i wouldnt recomend it.
In nature, animal populations are in balance with one another. Animals kill and eat one another all the time. In normal situations, these populations are kept in balance. As prey populations drop, predator populations drop. As prey populations increase, predator populations increase. This is the normal order of things. What has happened in the case of raccoons is that they're adaptable, and they capitalize on our own food (whether it be scraps or domesticated animals), and then also prey on animals that they would normally prey on. As a result, raccoon populations are increasing, which is putting more pressure on prey populations, which are declining. Killing of an overpopulated species is not supporting extinction and extirpation. Doing in excess is, and I'm not suggesting that.

Quote:
I dont believe that we should just kill things. There are other animals that eat frogs and turtles why cant we kill them to. We should try to prevent extinction because all of it is happening because of us but killing other animals isnt going to solve anything. It was just create more of a problem.
It's not "just killing things." That implies that there is no purpose to doing so. There is purpose to euthanizing a raccoon: reduce intraspecific competition, reduce pressure on prey species, reduce risk of disease transfer (raccoons can carry other diseases, not just rabies), so on and so forth. The other species that eat frogs and turtles are not overpopulated. Raccoons are. Again, don't get me wrong, I'm for eradicating bullfrogs in the Western US which are causing declines of species there.

How will controlling raccoon populations cause more problems? And again, I ask, how are we to control species, such as raccoons, if we are not to kill them?

Quote:
I would appreciate if you didnt post in this thread anymore. I like saving animals i have done it many times and will continue to. What you say or try to argue wont make me change my mind or make me look like a bad person no matter how many bad rep points you give me.
I like saving animals, too. But one needs to understand that more harm is caused by saving some animals (such as raccoons). It's like rehabbing an invasive species for re-release. It makes no sense to do so as it will ONLY cause problems for native species, just like with rehabbing a raccoon.

It's for the best for the animal, for the species, and for the ecosystem. This way, you get to ensure that it dies humanely. If you release it, it will likely get shot, trapped, or run over which can lead to a long, excruciating death.
__________________
-JP

Oophaga pumilio Researcher - 1 New Morph So Far

http://monarchzman.deviantart.com/gallery/
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 10:16 PM
afterdark's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chatham-Kent
Posts: 1,047
Thanks: 49
Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Rybecky View Post
I am in no way supporting EXTINCTION and EXTIRPATION. I am supporting the fact that everything should be given a chance. By killing things its supporting EXTINCTION and EXTIRPATION. She is not going to be killed, sorry. You can go in your back yard and shoot some if you really feel that raccoons should die... personally i wouldnt recomend it.
The house thing was an example... making a point.

I dont believe that we should just kill things. There are other animals that eat frogs and turtles why cant we kill them to. We should try to prevent extinction because all of it is happening because of us but killing other animals isnt going to solve anything. It was just create more of a problem.

I would appreciate if you didnt post in this thread anymore. I like saving animals i have done it many times and will continue to. What you say or try to argue wont make me change my mind or make me look like a bad person no matter how many bad rep points you give me.
Just because you do not agree with JP, does not make him wrong. He has just as much right to his opinion that the raccoon should be euthanized as you to yours that it should get to live a long and happy life. There is no reason for your rudeness and to ask him not to post in the thread - are you really that upset by his opinion?

My .02 - I agree with JP. While the raccoon you found may be cute and cuddly - it is still a raccoon. They are a problem in nearly every state, province and county in NA. The simple fact is there are too many of them. JP has clearly stated the reasons for their over-population - mainly access to human food.

No one is suggesting that you go start killing raccoons at random. Also, no one asked you to step in and interfere with the natural process that probably would have seen this raccoon die of starvation or be eaten by a predator. However, since you have chosen to get involved and post on a public forum, I think it's only reasonable that you be informed about the predator/prey imbalance that you are perpetuating by caring for the raccoon.

Understand that while you are helping the individual animal, you are certainly not doing any favours for your local ecosystem - particularly amphibians - which as a member of this site you should have a vested interest in.

It's surprising to me that someone who should be interested in conservation and supporting healthy eco-systems is so defensive and close-minded.
__________________
Mike
-- Google is nifty. Please use it BEFORE getting a pet. --
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 10:37 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 326
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

I think that the baby raccoon should have been left in the wild and let nature take its course. In the wild if animals fall from the nest its part of life. Now since you intervened and took it into captivity, i am not sure if you could release it. I absolutely disagree about killing an innocent baby raccoon even if it is killing turtles. Its part of the circle of life, and its simply higher up in the food chain. It is humans fault for allowing the raccoon populations to explode and causing them to behave in the way that they do, by clawing through trash and such because we are the real invasive species, cutting down forests and building new condominiums and shopping malls, and polluting the world making the whole environment out of sync. The raccoon should be released into the wild. If it were a bird that fell from its nest im sure it would be give a shoe box and nursed to health, but because an innocent animal is considered a "pest" it should not be killed.
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Dedicated Supporter
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 5,114
Thanks: 175
Thanked 203 Times in 150 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchzMan View Post
I'd say kill it. It might sound mean, but raccoons are doing absolutely fine without the additional help of headstarting them. Raccoons have caused the decline of many herp species in the US and IMO, their populations need to be signficantly reduced or else we'll likely see the extinctions of a number of species because of this animals.

Put it to sleep and save countless baby turtles.
I respect your opinion-I may not agree with it, but I respect it and your right to post it here.
But I have to ask you, could you really kill that baby animal?

John
__________________
John
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 11:12 PM
MonarchzMan's Avatar
TWI/ASN
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,363
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 20
Thanked 214 Times in 97 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-prime View Post
I think that the baby raccoon should have been left in the wild and let nature take its course. In the wild if animals fall from the nest its part of life. Now since you intervened and took it into captivity, i am not sure if you could release it. I absolutely disagree about killing an innocent baby raccoon even if it is killing turtles. Its part of the circle of life, and its simply higher up in the food chain. It is humans fault for allowing the raccoon populations to explode and causing them to behave in the way that they do, by clawing through trash and such because we are the real invasive species, cutting down forests and building new condominiums and shopping malls, and polluting the world making the whole environment out of sync. The raccoon should be released into the wild. If it were a bird that fell from its nest im sure it would be give a shoe box and nursed to health, but because an innocent animal is considered a "pest" it should not be killed.
What conveys innocence? Youth? Inability to defend itself? Cuteness? Innocence is a human feature. It involves moral right. Animals do not have morals. Humans do. Let's say that you found a python that just ate your dog. Would you consider it innocent? That python did not eat your dog maliciously, to get back at you. It was just doing what it's programmed to do. This raccoon is incapable of innocence.

Would you equally be against killing of zebra mussels that are so pervasive here in the Great Lakes (they're an invasive species, BTW)?

Quote:
I respect your opinion-I may not agree with it, but I respect it and your right to post it here.
But I have to ask you, could you really kill that baby animal?

John
What's the difference from killing an adult? Either way one would be taking a life.
__________________
-JP

Oophaga pumilio Researcher - 1 New Morph So Far

http://monarchzman.deviantart.com/gallery/
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 11:15 PM
Dedicated Supporter
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 5,114
Thanks: 175
Thanked 203 Times in 150 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchzMan View Post
What conveys innocence? Youth? Inability to defend itself? Cuteness? Innocence is a human feature. It involves moral right. Animals do not have morals. Humans do. Let's say that you found a python that just ate your dog. Would you consider it innocent? That python did not eat your dog maliciously, to get back at you. It was just doing what it's programmed to do. This raccoon is incapable of innocence.

Would you equally be against killing of zebra mussels that are so pervasive here in the Great Lakes (they're an invasive species, BTW)?



What's the difference from killing an adult? Either way one would be taking a life.
You didn`t answer my question.

John
__________________
John
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 11:19 PM
MonarchzMan's Avatar
TWI/ASN
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,363
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 20
Thanked 214 Times in 97 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Yes, I could. I regularly cull chicks in my chicken flock. I would have no difficult euthanizing a baby raccoon. I guess I thought that my response made that clear. As I would have no probably killing an adult, I would not have difficult killing a baby since either way I'd be taking a life.
__________________
-JP

Oophaga pumilio Researcher - 1 New Morph So Far

http://monarchzman.deviantart.com/gallery/
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 11:27 PM
Dedicated Supporter
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 5,114
Thanks: 175
Thanked 203 Times in 150 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchzMan View Post
Yes, I could. I regularly cull chicks in my chicken flock. I would have no difficult euthanizing a baby raccoon. I guess I thought that my response made that clear. As I would have no probably killing an adult, I would not have difficult killing a baby since either way I'd be taking a life.
Dude... relax.
Forgive me if didn`t read your response correctly.
Had I known you were such a big bad killing machine I would have chosen my words more carefully.

John
__________________
John
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 11:49 PM
MonarchzMan's Avatar
TWI/ASN
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,363
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 20
Thanked 214 Times in 97 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

I'm not upset or anything. Sorry if I came across as that. I'm by no means a killing machine. In fact, I hate doing it and avoid doing it if I can avoid it. I don't hunt or anything like that. I fish, but only practice catch and release.

It's just that I have come to realize that there are times when killing should be done. I don't hunt and don't like it, but I understand its use in wildlife management, so I can understand its use. Without hunting, for example, our wildlife populations and possibly livestock would be in a lot of trouble. It's the same with this. This is one of those times where it's necessary.
__________________
-JP

Oophaga pumilio Researcher - 1 New Morph So Far

http://monarchzman.deviantart.com/gallery/
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2009, 11:54 PM
Dedicated Supporter
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 5,114
Thanks: 175
Thanked 203 Times in 150 Posts
Smile Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchzMan View Post
I'm not upset or anything. Sorry if I came across as that. I'm by no means a killing machine. In fact, I hate doing it and avoid doing it if I can avoid it. I don't hunt or anything like that. I fish, but only practice catch and release.

It's just that I have come to realize that there are times when killing should be done. I don't hunt and don't like it, but I understand its use in wildlife management, so I can understand its use. Without hunting, for example, our wildlife populations and possibly livestock would be in a lot of trouble. It's the same with this. This is one of those times where it's necessary.
No harm done, my friend.
Just 2 people sharing an opinion.

John
__________________
John
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 01:40 PM
zBrinks's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 6,110
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 44
Thanked 333 Times in 212 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!


http://passionweiss.com/wp-content/u...1/fesshead.jpg

Davy Crockett killed raccoons (hence his hat).
Who doesn't want to be like Davy Crockett?

Humans enabled the raccoon population to grow exponentially and endanger other species to the point of potential extinction/extirpation. We have the responsibility to do our part to reverse the process. In this case, it's my opinion that it should be humanely euthanized.
__________________
Zach Brinks
www.JoshsFrogs.com
Same day shipping 1(800)691-8178
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 04:17 PM
afterdark's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chatham-Kent
Posts: 1,047
Thanks: 49
Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zBrinks View Post
Davy Crockett killed raccoons (hence his hat).
Who doesn't want to be like Davy Crockett?

Humans enabled the raccoon population to grow exponentially and endanger other species to the point of potential extinction/extirpation. We have the responsibility to do our part to reverse the process. In this case, it's my opinion that it should be humanely euthanized.
Thanks for being brave and reasonable and posting your opinion here Zach. Though I should warn you - it's very likely you will get negative feedback.

Someone, and I'm going to assume it's the OP until I find out otherwise, left me a very RUDE and INAPPROPRIATE negative rep. This included cursing me out because after all "It's just a freakin' raccoon". I would like to ask the person who left this comment to step up and take responsibility for your actions. There is no need to make comments like that in response to me posting what is a very valid opinion!

If a mod or Kyle sees this, I would like the negative rep removed from my profile as I don't feel it is in the spirit of the system.
__________________
Mike
-- Google is nifty. Please use it BEFORE getting a pet. --
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 05:14 PM
MonarchzMan's Avatar
TWI/ASN
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oxford, MS
Posts: 3,363
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 20
Thanked 214 Times in 97 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Yea, I've gotten some negative rep too (none terribly inappropriate, just.. cocky, I guess the word would be). It's a public forum, and if people want "oh it's so cute and cuddly," I'd suggest going to a forum of that mentality. Many people here are conservation-minded and realize the problems raccoons cause with the local fauna.

I'm not really worried about it. More people agree with what I say than disagree with it
__________________
-JP

Oophaga pumilio Researcher - 1 New Morph So Far

http://monarchzman.deviantart.com/gallery/
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 05:14 PM
Marinarawr's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cushing ME
Posts: 1,027
Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

With so many people supporting raccoon population control you'd think that there would be fewer restrictions on trapping them... In Maine you're only legally allowed to trap raccoon for two months in the winter (generally Nov-Dec). Just as some example of other state laws concerning raccoon harvesting (all dates are approximate since they're subject to change annually):
*Connecticut - Jan-March & Nov-Dec
*Michigan - Oct-Jan
*Georgia - "Raccoons may not be trapped in Carroll, Fulton, Dekalb, Gwinnett, Barrow, Jackson, Madison and Elbert counties or any county lying north of these counties. Trapping of raccoons is allowed in any of the counties south of the above listed counties from Dec. 1 - Feb. 29"
*California - "Raccoon may be taken from July 1 through March 31 in the following area: All of Imperial County and those portions of Riverside and San Bernardino counties lying south and east of the following line: Beginning at the intersection of Highway 86 with the north boundary of Imperial County; north along Highway 86 to the intersection with Interstate 10; east along Interstate 10 to its intersection with the Cottonwood Springs Road in Section 9, T6S, R11E, S.B.B.M.; north along the Cottonwood Springs Road and the Mecca Dale Road to Amboy; east along Highway 66 to the intersection with Highway 95; north along Highway 95 to the California-Nevada state line. November 16 through March 31 in the balance of the state. No limit."
*Kansas - Nov-Feb No limit
*Pennsylvania - could not find a season or lack thereof pertaining to raccoons

Personally I am pro trapping of furbearers. There does need to be regulation based on population but I think that for the most part we're quite strict with such laws. I guess I'm just trying to say that I support those of you who are thinking of the big picture and spreading the word about invasive/overpopulated species. My one piece of advice is to voice those complaints to your state fish and wildlife department so that the voice of reason can be heard over the voices of animal rights activists that pay biologists to make these species that are starving each other out and spreading disease sound ever so "threatened".

Take care all!
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 05:28 PM
afterdark's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chatham-Kent
Posts: 1,047
Thanks: 49
Thanked 29 Times in 14 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Wow - some people.

From my profile - another cowardly negative rep leaving user:
"If you speak out in a controversial topic be prepared for possible negative feedback. If it is not alright for you to receive negative feedback then you should not have the right to hand it out."

I hand out negative rep based on posts I see that are A) giving out improper or inaccurate husbandry info or B) unnecessarily rude or abusive. I DO NOT give out negative rep because I do not agree with someone's opinion. From my understanding, that is not what the rep system is to be used for.

In addition to that, the recent post I received a ding for (http://www.dendroboard.com/forum/lou...tml#post356554) was not about the negative rep itself. It was the RUDE comment attached that I have a problem with.

I guess there are some folks who would rather cuddle with their teddy bears then have a mature discussion about a conservation related issue.
__________________
Mike
-- Google is nifty. Please use it BEFORE getting a pet. --
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 06:07 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,018
Thanks: 3
Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinarawr View Post
There does need to be regulation based on population but I think that for the most part we're quite strict with such laws. I guess I'm just trying to say that I support those of you who are thinking of the big picture and spreading the word about invasive/overpopulated species. My one piece of advice is to voice those complaints to your state fish and wildlife department so that the voice of reason can be heard over the voices of animal rights activists that pay biologists to make these species that are starving each other out and spreading disease sound ever so "threatened".

Take care all!

Human = most invasive/overpopulated species

Let the culling begin

Good thing we are at the top of the food chain and can make the decision as to what lives and what dies.
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 06:17 PM
AzureFrog's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ohio
Posts: 388
Thanks: 66
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellyman View Post
Human = most invasive/overpopulated species

Let the culling begin

Good thing we are at the top of the food chain and can make the decision as to what lives and what dies.

Thanks Jellyman, I was thinking the same thing! We are the most invasive species, how many other species have WE driven to extinction.
tinclover likes this.
__________________
Peace
Shawn Marie
*Azureus *Vittatus *Auratus *Anthonyi *1.0 Gray Tabby *0.2 Whippet
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 06:35 PM
zBrinks's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 6,110
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: 44
Thanked 333 Times in 212 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

I'm pretty surprised that negative rep is even handed out in the lounge. I figured the rep system was aimed towards knowledge of the forum topic, aka dart frogs, their care, and habitat construction.

But what do I know :P
__________________
Zach Brinks
www.JoshsFrogs.com
Same day shipping 1(800)691-8178
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 07:15 PM
RecycledAgain's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 244
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

[QUOTE=zBrinks;356509]
http://passionweiss.com/wp-content/u...1/fesshead.jpg

Davy Crockett killed raccoons (hence his hat).
Who doesn't want to be like Davy Crockett?

What ? Lol Thats Fess Parker Played Daniel Boone on Tv....Not Davy Crockett..

Sorry wanted to lighten the mood..

Dan
__________________
1.1.3 D. Azureus
1.1.1 D. Leucomelas
1.3.4 D. Imitator
0.1.0 D. Cit Tinctorius
0.1.0 Cat
2.0.0 Kids
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 07:47 PM
Marinarawr's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cushing ME
Posts: 1,027
Thanks: 6
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellyman View Post
Human = most invasive/overpopulated species

Let the culling begin

Good thing we are at the top of the food chain and can make the decision as to what lives and what dies.
I can't believe that you pulled my post over any of the others . I'm just trying to get trappers some love .
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 08:22 PM
MonkeyFrogMan28's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 178
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchzMan View Post
It's about management. We've altered their habitat such that raccoons can survive and thrive and other species are having trouble. Are you suggesting that we leave it as is and let all of those other species suffer and go extinct? Turtle populations are crashing here in the US largely because of those raccoons.

Raccoons should be managed just like anything else. Without management, you see the problems that we have now. If the population is controlled as it would be before we arrived, we would not see the massive declines happening because of raccoons.

Not only that, but by hand raising it, you're going to get it humanized. It may not get domesticated, but it will forever associate humans with food, and when you release it, it will hang around houses and root through garbage and try to break into houses to get the food inside. Raccoons are smart, and they're determined when they know where a food source is.

If we were to let things happen without management, many species would go extinct. Managing raccoons is of vital importance to help protect a number of other species (turtles, frogs, toads, birds, etc). Yes, they're supposed to eat these animals, and when things are balanced, these animals can handle that pressure, but when raccoon populations explode because of human habitation and some convoluted protection because they're "cute and fuzzy", those populations cannot handle it, and will crash, as we're seeing now.


Killing it is wrong. How come racoons can be a labled as a "nusense" but there are hundreds of cats and dogs that are wild causing more problems than racoons. Exspeacially cats which are the #1 invaive animal. Racoons get labled as BAD too much. I would personally raise it out out of the goodness of my heart. Contact a zoo and see if they would like to adopt it. Humans are always trying to "manage" all animals and sometimes that causes more problems than good. Killing it will not solve any problems. If you want to solve the population problem then a large scale of killings would have to occur. Just killing one racoon is pointless and doesnt solve anything. It would be stupid to kill one animal and justify killing it by saying your managing its populations. Its not up to you to manage its populations. its up to the state and state officials. If racoons were that big of a deal like you make it sound, then the state or government would step in and set up programs to keep thier populations down. The death of one animal doesnt solve the problem......
tinclover likes this.
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2009, 08:33 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,018
Thanks: 3
Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts
Default Re: Look at what I've been taking care of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marinarawr View Post
I can't believe that you pulled my post over any of the others . I'm just trying to get trappers some love .
I thought your post was great. It actually had factual information rather then just opinion. I just found it funny that one could interchange the word raccon with human so easliy and the paragraph would still make sense

I also had a coon skin hat as a kid growing up in the northeast.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Froglet morphing size - parental care vs. external care rozdaboff General Discussion 7 07-30-2006 07:55 AM
taking care of D. reticulatus eggs General Discussion 0 04-10-2006 04:00 PM
Taking care of leucomelas eggs? Beginner Discussion 2 04-30-2005 09:25 AM
Anyone use these in taking care of Tadpoles? General Discussion 10 01-03-2005 08:29 PM
FF are taking over. addam4208283 General Discussion 24 12-10-2004 06:36 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.