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-   -   theloderma (https://www.dendroboard.com/forum/lounge/3006-theloderma.html)

Ryan 11-18-2004 10:37 AM

theloderma
 
Anyone know where i could find a caresheet on theloderma frogs? I seen them for sale on kingsnake way over my pricerange, but hopefully they will start to come down over time. Just amazing looking frogs!

Thanks
Ryan

11-18-2004 11:14 AM

That price did drop-- dramatically. They used to be over $400 each, and in very limited numbers. They're very easy to keep from what I've seen. Where I've seen them set up they had 1/3 of the tank water with an overflow, the other 2/3 land with gravel and a moss substrate. Just a few cork bark pieces for cover and that's about it. I forget the size crickets they were feeding, but they were nearly full size.
j

Derek Benson 11-18-2004 11:23 AM

I heard they were extremely hard to breed as well. Maybe someone found out how and now everyone knows. I think I'll wait though, still a lot of money for a frog.

Ben E 11-20-2004 03:57 PM

they are really very easy to breed....kinda like fire bellied toads....Im not really that impressed with them, but i think they need to be set up more naturalistically to be appreciated...i heard they live in moss covered spring seepage crevices....not quite the half water/cork bark/cynderblock set up....but oddly enough that is all that is needed to breed them easily. Ben

Ryan 11-20-2004 04:00 PM

Thanks for all the info. I see that their are people offering tads for 50, but dont have the money right now, and am worried about shipping tads along with acclimating them to new water.

Ryan

AJ 11-20-2004 05:24 PM

I am definitely very happy to see that they are being bred in numbers now. I've been in love with Theloderma frogs since I read about Ryboltovsky's success in collecting and breeding them, and never thought that the price would drop down like it has. I'll have to get some when the weather warms up...

So what ever happened to those giant Polypedates that Hank Molt was advertising?

andersonii85 11-20-2004 05:25 PM

I wouldn't purchase any as I heard that they were illegally brought into this country. They are an endangered species in the wild- Appendix II CITES I believe. Cool looking frogs though. They were feeding them 1/2" crickets.

$50/tad sounds like a gamble to me.

Justin

Derek Benson 11-20-2004 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ
So what ever happened to those giant Polypedates that Hank Molt was advertising?

P. dennysi?

AJ 11-20-2004 07:42 PM

Derek, it's a frog that looks identical to dennysi but is much larger. Here's a link to a picture... http://www.private.peterlink.ru/rybo...tes%20demo.jpg They came in along with the Theloderma. Whether they were illegally imported or if they were bought from the Russian breeder, I don't know.

Michael Shrom 11-21-2004 08:30 PM

When talking about smuggling I'd say they are in the same case as many dart frogs. Some come in legally and some might be smuggled. Why post things like "I think they came in illegally ... I think they are CITES II. Why not check out your guesses and post them as facts. I was interested in salamanders that some guys "Thought" were cites restricted. I checked the CITES site and they aren't. I purchased the legal salamanders.

I know of at least 2 reputable breeders breeding Theloderma. The first time I saw these frogs posted they were over 400.00 each. Now they are down to 125.00 for a froglet and 50.00 for a tadpole. They are hardy and easily kept. I'd say that's an accomplishment and not something to be second guessed and naysayed.

Michael Shrom 11-21-2004 08:52 PM

I checked the CITES site. Theloderma are not CITES listed.

Derek Benson 11-21-2004 10:59 PM

Yes, I remember those tree frogs, they were brought in with the Thelodermas, like you said, a number of years ago.

Mike, I'm with you, I think it's awesome that these frogs have been bred with some success and are now that much cheaper. Terrarium Under ground offers $100 per froglet, that's 4 times less than originally for WC adults.

andersonii85 11-22-2004 11:05 AM

Sheesh. Sorry guys. I cannot vouch for all species of Theloderma, but I know of at least one that was listed as Endangered in Vietnam. They have been proposed for CITES recently. This species is one of the few that have been smuggled in over the years- to Europe. Whether or not we are getting the CB's of their offspring or not I have no clue. I will get back to you with the species on that. BTW- I found out about this from a friend who lives in Vietnam that works for the WCC.

I never doubted that breeding these frogs was an accomplishment and I am greatly saddened that someone would take such a hardline tone with me. I am just trying to get people to think about these animals from a different perspective and not just some material object that we can have our way with.

I would have posted "facts" but am busy and work hard and have not had time to fact check every statement I make.

Best,

Justin

Michael Shrom 11-22-2004 06:17 PM

I didn't want to seem harsh. They are proposed for CITES. They are endangered because of habitat loss. Some scientists say they might be lost from the wild. Some came in legally. Some were smuggled in. Some recommend captive breeding to "save" this frog. It sounds a lot like the dart frogs we keep.

It's a fine line considering yourself a conservationist and advocating keeping animals as pets or specimens. I think Theloderma can be kept in captivity without comprimising my values. I can even rationalize keeping an animal that might vanish from the wild and has the potential to thrive in captivity. I am making the assumption that the main pressure on the wild populations are habitat loss and polution and not collecting for research and the pet trade.

watkinsg 09-23-2006 01:27 AM

CITES
 
CITES is actually hard to get for a species. I've submitted a proposal in the past. One must prove not only that a species is declining in the wild (regardless of its status legally in that country) but also that the TRADE is causing, or contributing, to it... AND it actually does help if the home country for the species has no protection for it. If the home country has it listed and controls trade in it, then CITES proposals are often withdrawn or shot down. If one cannot prove that there is a significant trade (which is hard to do with taxa that are not CITES listed as the import documentation isn't always as detailed) then it may be shot down. And if the trade in the species is not harming the wild, then it will be rejected. If international trade in wood is causing a frog to decline, CITES is irrelevant. Only in that case if the TREE was declining might CITES be relevant as the trade in the tree was causing the tree to decline. In other words, habitat loss isn't likely to be enough to kick in CITES for a species.

All that said, Dendrobates are CITES II and are still imported from the wild. Isn't that ironic?

bluedart 09-23-2006 04:12 AM

Terrarium Underground has Viatnamese Mossy Frogs (Theloderma corticale) for 35 each, CB. They might be a good start for you.


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