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Old 10-31-2015, 04:33 AM
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Default treating snake mites around dart frogs

Any experience with treating snake mites around frogs?

I took in a snake which has them. Rather not use provent a mite...though snakes are I seperate room from frogs and this new arrival in yet another area.
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Old 10-31-2015, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

The only product I've used for snake mites is provent-a-mite so I can't really offer any alternatives, but I've got to say it worked very well and I keep a can for emergencies. Dart frogs are likely sensitive to the permethrin, but I didn't have observe any issues with my leucs and imitators I had in an adjacent room. As long as your careful in your application, it shouldn't be too risky to use. Another thing to keep in mind is that insecticides could wipe out your feeders if they accidently get exposed (or transfer them to the frogs), so stay aware of more than just the frogs themselves.

Good luck with clearing those mites!

John
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Old 11-25-2015, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

I ended up soaking this snake in water with dawn dish soap for several sessions. Kept it on paper towel. Snake shed out and I immediately discarded old shed.

I think I got rid of the mites...their were only a few luckily.
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Old 12-15-2015, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

In the future, take the new bedding outside or to a room and close the vents. Treat the bedding with the mite spray and allow to dry overnight. Change the old bedding for the new bedding. The benefit of this is as the mites hatch and/or migrate back into the snake cages, the treated bedding will then prevent a reestablishment of the infection. Just work the snakes after the frogs and your bug cultures until you get the problem under control. Using treated bedding is also a good method for new reptile acquisitions to keep the mites from getting a foothold.

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Old 12-17-2015, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

Ed: That sounds much safer than traditional methods of treatment!


I have done a lot of research and anecdotal evidence suggests the potential for mites being controlled in naturalistic(so called bioactive) enclosures. Of course one could use predatory mites but I have come across several anecdotes of snake mites vanishing without the use of predatory mites. Perhaps isopods or springtails outcompete or simply eat the resting stages/eggs.
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Old 12-18-2015, 03:40 AM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

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Originally Posted by Dendrobait View Post
I have come across several anecdotes of snake mites vanishing without the use of predatory mites. Perhaps isopods or springtails outcompete or simply eat the resting stages/eggs.
Its the method I use to treat incoming reptiles to prevent infestation and I do have insects and amphibians in the same areas as my reptiles. Its very safe if done that way.

I'm highly suspicious of the claims for elimination by isopods and springtails. First off the mites feed exclusively on reptile blood so there isn't any competition for food. Second, springtails aren't mite predators (otherwise we wouldn't have to worry about them infesting springtail cultures). Third, while isopods will predate on mites it is unlikely that they will reduce the numbers sufficiently to eliminate the mites as the mites can and do inhabit locations that aren't accessible to the isopods (such as under scales, between the eye socket and the scales and so forth. The mites will lay their eggs in any tight crevice or location and this does include the body of the snake (again under scales and so forth). The addition of isopods to springtail cultures for examples don't eliminate those mites, there is a reduction in the mite population but in most cases the mites persist at reduced levels.

I'm not going to say it is impossible but I'm highly suspicious as the claim doesn't fit into what we know.

Now there is good evidence that some predatory mite species will work (example http://www.ap-pi.com/medias/telecharger/239) but I don't think those mites are available on this side of the Ocean as they would have to be evaluated by the USDA before being open for purchase.

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Old 12-22-2015, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

Fascinating Ed. That is interesting Hypoaspis was found to be ineffective-I have read anecdotal reports of them being effective against snake mites. Perhaps they eat the egg stage.

I have to wonder how they are able to mass produce this species...I'd assume it has to be a facultative predator of the snake mite otherwise you'd have a problem on your hands with feeding them continually!
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Old 12-23-2015, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

Here's a better article.
http://clinvet-auteuil.com/IMG/pdf/S...13_-_copie.pdf

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Old 01-01-2016, 06:30 AM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

A light Olive Oil coating has been effectivefor me, just went throught this with a Lygodactylus that had blood mites.
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Old 01-01-2016, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

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Originally Posted by TheCoop View Post
A light Olive Oil coating has been effectivefor me, just went throught this with a Lygodactylus that had blood mites.
Those are generally chigger larvae which often makes them very easy to treat unlike the snake mites as they have to mature before they can begin to lay eggs.

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Old 03-05-2016, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed View Post
In the future, take the new bedding outside or to a room and close the vents. Treat the bedding with the mite spray and allow to dry overnight. Change the old bedding for the new bedding. The benefit of this is as the mites hatch and/or migrate back into the snake cages, the treated bedding will then prevent a reestablishment of the infection. Just work the snakes after the frogs and your bug cultures until you get the problem under control. Using treated bedding is also a good method for new reptile acquisitions to keep the mites from getting a foothold.

Some comments

Ed
Two Questions:

1) While this makes sense, I am curious: Don't pyrethrin and permethrin based formulas decompose fairly quickly, rendering them inert? I ask because this is the line the NYC DOH tells us whenever they spray for West Nile (No need to cover your fish pond, empty pet water dishes, or kiddie pools, etc.)

2) How long do snake mites live with no host? I ask because I was wondering, if the herp is removed form the enclosure and the enclosure is then treated, would the hatching larvae die of starvation with without a host? Or can they remain in"stasis" until a host is reintroduced?
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Old 03-06-2016, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: treating snake mites around dart frogs

Photodecomposition is fairly quick and in the concentrations used for mosquito control isn't sufficient to cause problems in mammals or birds. The liver is able to rapidly break it down and excrete it from the tissues (and it takes a lot to reach a toxic level).

It isn't really mobile in the environment as it binds tightly to soil particles and is subsequently broken down by microbes usually within 30 days. In the case of dry cage materials that are stored out of the sun its going to have a better persistence in the substrate hence the recommendation on the label to retreat after 30 days.

The problem with the mites is that they are very mobile. This is one of the problems in controlling them as some can go on "walkabout" in the building only to return to the enclosure after a significant period of time.

I don't have any data for life span unfed as nymphs but I would suspect it to be longer than we would want it to be.

some comments

Ed
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