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Old 05-06-2015, 01:32 AM
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Default Dart frogs in room with marijuana

First off, I hope this isn't against the rules or anything...

I am in Colorado, and as you may know, weed is legal here. So, being the guy I am, I toke up pretty often in my office. That is also where my dart frogs are, and I was just wondering if it is okay?

My frogs are about 15 feet away from my chair, which is where I smoke. I don't want to harm them or anything
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Old 05-06-2015, 01:41 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

I guess it depends how well their tank is ventilated and if you can ever see any smoke going in there... if it is leaching in, I can't imagine it's very good for them though.

I thought one of the benefits of legalization was being able to chill out on the porch and smoke anyway.
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Old 05-06-2015, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

They will be fine. Dont blow the smoke directly into the tank.
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Last edited by readygrown; 05-06-2015 at 02:35 AM.
 
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Old 05-06-2015, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

My frog room is my basement, which is also my music room. I host practice for an 8 person reggae band at least once a week. I would say your safe man.
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Old 05-06-2015, 03:07 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

If you notice it in the tanks at all they will have issues with it but as long as you make an effort to keep it out of the tanks they should be fine. If you have fans on the outside of your tanks blowing fresh air in through vents like i do make sure they are off.
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Old 05-06-2015, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

If you notice the frogs listening to reggae and eating more than normal, i would say stop.
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Old 05-06-2015, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

You may have to feed them more though!!!Haha!!
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Old 05-06-2015, 04:15 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Considering how permeable amphibian skins are - I wouldn't advise it.

s
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Old 05-06-2015, 05:06 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Some alternatives are vaporizing or ingesting. The latter of course doesn't affect the frogs (directly, anyway). I don't know about smoke, but from 15 feet if the vapor even gets there, it won't enter a tank like smoke might.

Another thing is to place a fan near where you smoke/vape that's situated so that everything blows away from the tanks.
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Old 05-06-2015, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

It may end up curing a disease they have. It is medicine. Antimicrobial, antifungal, antibiotic, anti inflammatory, neuroprotectant, apatite enhancer. Try blowing smoke into the tank if your frogs aren't eating well, it worked for me(not the frogs).
I don't even think that amphibians have cb receptors to be affected by it. Dolphins, dogs and other mammals do but I haven't heard anything about amphibians. I'd say, from experience, there isn't anything to worry about. Although I do recommend vaping and medibles rather than smoking.
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Old 05-06-2015, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

I'd say keep going, they are enjoying it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by readygrown View Post
If you notice the frogs listening to reggae and eating more than normal, i would say stop.
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Old 05-06-2015, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
It may end up curing a disease they have. It is medicine. Antimicrobial, antifungal, antibiotic, anti inflammatory, neuroprotectant, apatite enhancer. Try blowing smoke into the tank if your frogs aren't eating well, it worked for me(not the frogs).
What. Where are you getting this idea from? Just because it can be good for people in certain scenarios, doesn't mean it's good for frogs -- especially if you take dosage into account.

"Lower" vertebrates all the way down to tunicates have cannabinoid receptors, so I'm confident frogs have them as well. Also cannabis is a well known insect repellent/pesticide, so that should bring up some flags -- just as I imagine most people would be concerned with nicotine and tobacco smoke with their frogs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Considering how permeable amphibian skins are - I wouldn't advise it.

s
I think this is the most prudent way to go. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 05-06-2015, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Hypostatic and Scott--thanks for being the adults in the room...

Q: Would filling the room with plants act as an absorber, the way it does with tobacco? I know for myself, when I was a smoker that all the houseplants did absorb much of the toxins. (Although, I usually smoked outside.)
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Old 05-06-2015, 04:05 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

With all joking aside, in my experience only, ive kept frogs in the same room ive smoked in for years. Smoke does tend to rise...ive never seen any ill affects of smoking on my frogs and ive bred, sold, traded and given away many. I admit, I dont smoke a whole lot and i never blow it towards the tanks. I usually smoke in areas with good air movement. Ive also never read of or heard of any scientific publications on the matter, so there is a possibility that it may be harmful.
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Old 05-06-2015, 04:28 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

I built a little mechanism using a servo, arduino, a co2 sensor and some legos that seals the vents in the tank depending on co2 levels back when I was living at school to deal with smoke from a hookah. Its a bit overboard but I had servos laying around and I really wanted to use them for something.
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Old 05-06-2015, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by readygrown View Post
If you notice the frogs listening to reggae and eating more than normal, i would say stop.
Yeah, I've seen this happen before. I discovered the issue when I started to find Bob Marley CDs and empty dorito bags in the enclosure.

Joking aside, I would probably make sure the room is well ventilated. Place a fan near the tanks to blow the smoke away too.

Amphibians have pretty permiable skin, but as long as the smoke isn't reaching the enclosure too much I'd think you would be ok.
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Old 05-06-2015, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

The dosage of a frog in the room is nill so "dosage" wouldn't be a concern
. MJ is NOT and insecticide, although nicotine is. Please do not equate the 2 as one causes cancer and one can put certain forms into remission. there is no comparison between nicotine and cannabinoids.
I should've expected the peanut gallery to chime in but as I've said, I've never had any problems with smoking MJ in the same room with frogs.
MJ is one of the most harmless substances known to man. You can overdose easier on water, aspirin, chocolate, caffeine and you can not overdosse on MJ. No scare tactics needed here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypostatic View Post
What. Where are you getting this idea from? Just because it can be good for people in certain scenarios, doesn't mean it's good for frogs -- especially if you take dosage into account.

"Lower" vertebrates all the way down to tunicates have cannabinoid receptors, so I'm confident frogs have them as well. Also cannabis is a well known insect repellent/pesticide, so that should bring up some flags -- just as I imagine most people would be concerned with nicotine and tobacco smoke with their frogs.



I think this is the most prudent way to go. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 05-06-2015, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Please. Rubbish.

Smoke is an irritant.

MJ smoke irritates my lungs in the same way that tobacco smoke does.

Amphibians have permeable skins - it's the same as our lungs.

Do it if you want to - it's NOT good for them. It may not harm them, but unless someone is doing a 20 year study first, don't try to convince me otherwise.

s
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... No scare tactics needed here.
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Old 05-06-2015, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Being overly concerned equals adult?
Just because someone has no experience with something and opts for the "safer" perspective(with no proof it's safer and not beneficial) doesn't equal adult.
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Originally Posted by Groundhog View Post
Hypostatic and Scott--thanks for being the adults in the room...

Q: Would filling the room with plants act as an absorber, the way it does with tobacco? I know for myself, when I was a smoker that all the houseplants did absorb much of the toxins. (Although, I usually smoked outside.)
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Old 05-06-2015, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Yet they prescribe it as an antiinflamatory for asthmatics. No one is trying to convince U of anything, that would be pointless. Unless you have a 20 year study saying it's harmful, I'd not be so proclamative.
It's not cigarette smoke. The studies I have seen has shown better lung function in people who smoke 10 joints a day. The man recieveing gov't MJ showed over 100% oxygen saturation in his blood and NO pulmonary problems. Really you should do your research instead of believing the government lies. They have a patent on the neuroprotective properties and leave it in schedule 1 with NO medical use. Open your eyes. Your claim thaat ALL smoke is an irritant is your faulty premise.
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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Please. Rubbish.

Smoke is an irritant.

MJ smoke irritates my lungs in the same way that tobacco smoke does.

Amphibians have permeable skins - it's the same as our lungs.

Do it if you want to - it's NOT good for them. It may not harm them, but unless someone is doing a 20 year study first, don't try to convince me otherwise.

s

Last edited by Roadrunner; 05-06-2015 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 05-06-2015, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

I'm not saying that the MJ is harmful.

I'm saying that the smoke that comes along with it is harmful (and you'll note that I talked about the smoke above, not MJ).

There IS a difference.

For the record, not that it's been asked, but I'm all for legal MJ.

s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
Yet they prescribe it as an antiinflamatory for asthmatics. No one is trying to convince U of anything, that would be pointless. Unless you have a 20 year study saying it's harmful, I'd not be so proclamative.
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Last edited by Scott; 05-06-2015 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 05-06-2015, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

How do I know it's an irritant?

I'd know. I have plenty of friends who smoke MJ.

You'll not convince me it isn't an irritant. Smoke IS an irritant. Maybe some less than others.

Frogs skins are permeable - and they're a whole lot smaller than we are.

It can't be good for them.

s
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Old 05-06-2015, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Concentrated MJ smoke causes a reaction. It's an expectorant. The concentration of smoke that your frogs would be subject to IS NOT AN IRRITANT. The solution to pollution is dilution.

Again, not an IRRITANT. It irritates nothing.

Yes some more than others and MJ is near the bottom, IF it makes the list, I'd imagine with lungwort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
How do I know it's an irritant?

I'd know. I have plenty of friends who smoke MJ.

You'll not convince me it isn't an irritant. Smoke IS an irritant. Maybe some less than others.

Frogs skins are permeable - and they're a whole lot smaller than we are.

It can't be good for them.

s
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Old 05-06-2015, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Wait, did you think I was serious about blowing it into the tank? Maybe I should've added smileys or something. I meant it helped MY stomach problems, not the frogs. was still talking about smoking in the same room, not blowing it into the tank. I forget that sarcasm doesn't go well over the internet. Agai, I WAS NOT talking about blowing smoke directly into the tank. I was talking about how it helped MY ailment. Don't blow smoke into the tanks!

Sorry if there was confusion.

On another note there are numerous reports of dogs being cured of ailments(tumors, stomach problems, etc.) from med MJ also.
edit: and they weren't cured from anything by blowing smoke in their face, it was medible and topical. You know what I'm just going to stay off the internet forums. I can't get my point across in type and since I have no more social anxiety I might as well keep my interaction to real people(face to face).
Enjoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hypostatic View Post
What. Where are you getting this idea from? Just because it can be good for people in certain scenarios, doesn't mean it's good for frogs -- especially if you take dosage into account.

"Lower" vertebrates all the way down to tunicates have cannabinoid receptors, so I'm confident frogs have them as well. Also cannabis is a well known insect repellent/pesticide, so that should bring up some flags -- just as I imagine most people would be concerned with nicotine and tobacco smoke with their frogs.



I think this is the most prudent way to go. Better safe than sorry.

Last edited by Roadrunner; 05-06-2015 at 07:39 PM.
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Old 05-06-2015, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Smoke in the frog room has been an issue for me in the past and I still don't have windows that open in that area. I tend to keep the tanks well sealed and don't do a lot of work in them while it is smoky in the room. I use a table fan to disperse the cloud normally.
That aside I don't think pot is much if a problem and I'm much more concerned with my wife's occasional cigarette smoking in that same room but I can't get her to quit. I have had frogs in that room since '08 without observable problems.
Seal, ventilate and circulate.

Remember most of these frogs are from Latin America so spend a little extra for the good stuff.
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
Yet they prescribe it as an antiinflamatory for asthmatics. No one is trying to convince U of anything, that would be pointless. Unless you have a 20 year study saying it's harmful, I'd not be so proclamative.
It's not cigarette smoke. The studies I have seen has shown better lung function in people who smoke 10 joints a day. The man recieveing gov't MJ showed over 100% oxygen saturation in his blood and NO pulmonary problems. Really you should do your research instead of believing the government lies. They have a patent on the neuroprotective properties and leave it in schedule 1 with NO medical use. Open your eyes. Your claim thaat ALL smoke is an irritant is your faulty premise.
Nobody is arguing for or against marijuana here.. The simple question is, "is it safe in a frog room" .. Watch a couple youtube videos of Dumb***es that blow smoke on frogs to smoke em out and see what happens and you will see that it is not a good idea.

Don't let the smoke get in the tanks is the only advice anyone here can give, short of don't smoke in the same room.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Don't blow smoke on your frogs is the best anyone can do here. I smoked for 15 years with my frogs, while working, while relaxing, etc. as that's the only place I could smoke. 15 years of smoking around frogs and not one problem. Smoking around thousands of frogs. 15 years.

Don't let the frog police ruin your enjoying a joint while watching or working with your frogs. It won't harm them. From experience. Lots and lots of experience.

If you have to worry about pandering to the dumbass' that would think it's cool to get your frog stoned, then this site and frogging(and the world) has failed miserably.

And this is exactly why I won't write on this site anymore. can't say one thing, that you have more experience than anyone with, without getting called juvinile or asked for a 20 year study.

Last edited by Roadrunner; 05-06-2015 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner
The dosage of a frog in the room is nill so "dosage" wouldn't be a concern
. MJ is NOT and insecticide, although nicotine is. Please do not equate the 2 as one causes cancer and one can put certain forms into remission. there is no comparison between nicotine and cannabinoids.
You are sorely misinformed. There is a history of using cannabis as both a companion plant, and using the plant extract as an insect repellent/pesticide:
Cannabis as repellent and pesticide

You can even buy "organic" and "natural" insect repellents made from hemp:
Hemp Love – Organic Inset Repellent 2oz | eBay

A quick scientific literature search will back up this claim:
Cookies Required - CAB Direct
http://omicsgroup.org/journals/effic...bd.1000122.pdf
Determination of Pesticide Residues in Cannabis Smoke

Many pesticides, in fact, work by affecting the cannabinoid system, which is where cannabis acts on:
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf101747r

From the first scientific paper I posted:
"Laboratory studies carried out with the essential oil of an indigenous plant, Cannabis sativa to evaluate its mosquito larvicidal properties revealed that the oil could induce 100.0% mortality at concentrations of 0.06, 0.1, 0.12 and 0.2 ml/litre of water in the larvae of Culex tritaeniorhynchus, Anopheles stephensi, Aedes aegypti and C. quinquefasciatus respectively."

This is why I mentioned dosage, because it's very important in determining whether or not something will be harmful. EVERY SINGLE DRUG/MEDICINE IS A POISON, and it's their concentration/dosage that can make them good or bad for you. For example, the pain relief Neosporin can be great for people, but it will kill your frogs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
Yet they prescribe it as an antiinflamatory for asthmatics. No one is trying to convince U of anything, that would be pointless. Unless you have a 20 year study saying it's harmful, I'd not be so proclamative.
It's not cigarette smoke. The studies I have seen has shown better lung function in people who smoke 10 joints a day. The man recieveing gov't MJ showed over 100% oxygen saturation in his blood and NO pulmonary problems. Really you should do your research instead of believing the government lies. They have a patent on the neuroprotective properties and leave it in schedule 1 with NO medical use. Open your eyes. Your claim thaat ALL smoke is an irritant is your faulty premise.
Again, you are really misinformed. Smoke is smoke is smoke. From a scientific literature search, it seems like cannabis smoke is at least as bad if not WORSE than tobacco smoke (I mean, you're just burning leaves in both cases):

http://www.thoracic.org.au/imagesdb/...itionpaper.pdf
"Studies have demonstrated that, even after limited exposure to cannabis smoke, airway inflammation develops.8–11"
"Analysis of the constituents of mainstream cannabis andtobacco smoke reveals that both the gaseous and the particulate phases contain a range of harmful chemicals. Although the pharmacologically active ingredients (nicotine and cannabinoids) differ, the ‘tar content’, including carcinogens such as vinyl chloride, dimethyl- and methyl-ethylnitrosamine, benzathracene and benzpyrene, is comparable for both types of smoke.6"
"Features consistent with chronic bronchitis including oedema, vascular hyperplasia, inflammatory cell infiltration and goblet cell hyperplasia occurred. These changes were comparable to those that occurred with tobacco smoke"
"Cannabis smoke is also mutagenic.12,13 There have been case reports that heavy cannabis use is associated with cancer of the tongue and lung.14,15 "

Adverse effects of cannabis and cannabinoids.
"The smoke from a cannabis joint or pipe contains the same constituents (apart from nicotine) as tobacco smoke, including bronchial irritants, tumour initiators (mutagens), tumour promotors and carcinogens. The tar from cannabis smoke also contains greater concentrations of benzanthracenes and benzpyrenes, both of which are carcinogens, than the tar in tobacco smoke. 62 103 Furthermore, smoking a cannabis cigarette results in a threefold greater increase in the amount of tar inhaled, and retention in the respiratory tract of one-third more tar, than smoking a tobacco cigarette. 143 Chronic cannabis smoking is associated with bronchitis, emphysema and squamous metaplasia (a pre-cancerous change) of the tracheobronchial epithelium. These changes are more frequent in those who have only smoked cannabis than in those who have only smoked tobacco. 50"
"It is estimated that 3–4 cannabis cigarettes daily are equivalent to 20 or more tobacco cigarettes per day in terms of the incidence of acute and chronic bronchitis and damage to the bronchial epithelium.143"
"There have been several case reports which strongly suggest a link between cannabis smoking and cancer of the aerodigestive tract (oropharynx and tongue, nasal and sinus epithelium and larynx). 51 101"
"Cannabis is antiandrogenic and cannabinoids, including THC, bind to androgen receptors.44 Chronic cannabis smoking appears to be associated with decreased sperm counts, decreased sperm motility and abnormal sperm morphology in animals and humans. 44 87 10"
"A retrospective study of 204 case-control pairs found a 10-fold increased risk of developing non-lymphoblastic leukaemia in the offspring of mothers who had taken marijuana during or just before pregnancy. This was followed by two other studies suggesting an increased risk of rhabdomyosarcoma and astrocytoma in the children of mothers who had used cannabis during pregnancy.51"


In short, cannabis smoke is AT LEAST as potentially dangerous/harmful as tobacco smoke. Frogs are very sensitive to chemicals in general, but also in the air since they "breathe" through their skin. If you want to be careful about your frogs' health and well-being, do not expose them to smoke of any kind.

You can smoke all you want, but don't claim that it CAN'T cause any health issues. The body of evidence is overwhelming in that it CAN.

Last edited by hypostatic; 05-06-2015 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:39 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Frog Police?

That is SO amusing and SO paranoid Aaron.

s
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... Don't let the frog police ruin your enjoying a joint while watching or working with your frogs. It won't harm them. From experience. Lots and lots of experience.
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Old 05-06-2015, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
Don't blow smoke on your frogs is the best anyone can do here. I smoked for 15 years with my frogs, while working, while relaxing, etc. as that's the only place I could smoke. 15 years of smoking around frogs and not one problem. Smoking around thousands of frogs. 15 years.

Don't let the frog police ruin your enjoying a joint while watching or working with your frogs. It won't harm them. From experience. Lots and lots of experience.

If you have to worry about pandering to the dumbass' that would think it's cool to get your frog stoned, then this site and frogging(and the world) has failed miserably.

And this is exactly why I won't write on this site anymore. can't say one thing, that you have more experience than anyone with, without getting called juvinile or asked for a 20 year study.
Before calling out the frog police, maybe you could read what I just posted. I JUST said the best advice to give and the simple answer would be to just be careful and not let it get in your tank.

Calm down dude. Maybe you should roll a j.
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Old 05-06-2015, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Frog Police?

That is SO amusing and SO paranoid Aaron.

s
I see what you did there.

You're such a bully Scott! How DARE you disagree!

Anytime someone disagrees with Aaron, he plays the victim. Not very mellow for a self professed toker.

Roll a J, smoke a bowl, eat a brownie bro....
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2015, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Aaron, ask your barber wether smoke and MJ are bad for frogs, that will settle this....
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Old 05-07-2015, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Also, for what it's worth... any doctor in the country writing prescriptions for medical marijuana will tell you not to smoke it. There's other ways to get where you're going that are healthier, which would indicate that smoke does have its downsides.
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Now you are mixing things and also putting out levels which are NOT going to be reached via smoking a joint in a room.

Now are we talking insect repellants or insecticides? They are very different. And insecticides don't necessarily hurt your frogs.

No MJ is NON- TOXIC. Look it up.

Now are we talking cannabinoids or terpenes. MJ has a long list of different terpenes some of which are present in each plant but not all of them in any plant. Limonene is an insect repellant and is found in SOME cannabis. Shoot, THC isn't even in ALL cannabis. So you'd have to be more specific than MJ is an insecticide. While it may be true for some it's not true for all or I'd wish you'd come and tell the insects around my outdoor plants because they don't listen.
So no, I'm not misinformed, you aren't very specific.
And don't believe everything you read on the internet. Have you ever TRIED using hemp oil as an insect repellant? First off, it doesn't work, second it's probably just hemp oil as a delivery and not for repellant properties.

And when you pull out bunk gov't studies designed to show bad results, I stop the argument. Read about the truth from studies in other countries. Better lung function reduced inflamation and higher oxygen in the blood is the result.
If you think smoke is smoke is smoke I have some poison ivy, plastic and ricine to add to your bowl. And I don't think I have time if there is anything I missed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypostatic View Post
You are sorely misinformed. There is a history of using cannabis as both a companion plant, and using the plant extract as an insect repellent/pesticide:
Cannabis as repellent and pesticide

You can even buy "organic" and "natural" insect repellents made from hemp:
Hemp Love – Organic Inset Repellent 2oz | eBay

A quick scientific literature search will back up this claim:
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http://omicsgroup.org/journals/effic...bd.1000122.pdf
Determination of Pesticide Residues in Cannabis Smoke

Many pesticides, in fact, work by affecting the cannabinoid system, which is where cannabis acts on:
An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf101747r

From the first scientific paper I posted:
"Laboratory studies carried out with the essential oil of an indigenous plant, Cannabis sativa to evaluate its mosquito larvicidal properties revealed that the oil could induce 100.0% mortality at concentrations of 0.06, 0.1, 0.12 and 0.2 ml/litre of water in the larvae of Culex tritaeniorhynchus, Anopheles stephensi, Aedes aegypti and C. quinquefasciatus respectively."

This is why I mentioned dosage, because it's very important in determining whether or not something will be harmful. EVERY SINGLE DRUG/MEDICINE IS A POISON, and it's their concentration/dosage that can make them good or bad for you. For example, the pain relief Neosporin can be great for people, but it will kill your frogs.



Again, you are really misinformed. Smoke is smoke is smoke. From a scientific literature search, it seems like cannabis smoke is at least as bad if not WORSE than tobacco smoke (I mean, you're just burning leaves in both cases):

http://www.thoracic.org.au/imagesdb/...itionpaper.pdf
"Studies have demonstrated that, even after limited exposure to cannabis smoke, airway inflammation develops.8–11"
"Analysis of the constituents of mainstream cannabis andtobacco smoke reveals that both the gaseous and the particulate phases contain a range of harmful chemicals. Although the pharmacologically active ingredients (nicotine and cannabinoids) differ, the ‘tar content’, including carcinogens such as vinyl chloride, dimethyl- and methyl-ethylnitrosamine, benzathracene and benzpyrene, is comparable for both types of smoke.6"
"Features consistent with chronic bronchitis including oedema, vascular hyperplasia, inflammatory cell infiltration and goblet cell hyperplasia occurred. These changes were comparable to those that occurred with tobacco smoke"
"Cannabis smoke is also mutagenic.12,13 There have been case reports that heavy cannabis use is associated with cancer of the tongue and lung.14,15 "

Adverse effects of cannabis and cannabinoids.
"The smoke from a cannabis joint or pipe contains the same constituents (apart from nicotine) as tobacco smoke, including bronchial irritants, tumour initiators (mutagens), tumour promotors and carcinogens. The tar from cannabis smoke also contains greater concentrations of benzanthracenes and benzpyrenes, both of which are carcinogens, than the tar in tobacco smoke. 62 103 Furthermore, smoking a cannabis cigarette results in a threefold greater increase in the amount of tar inhaled, and retention in the respiratory tract of one-third more tar, than smoking a tobacco cigarette. 143 Chronic cannabis smoking is associated with bronchitis, emphysema and squamous metaplasia (a pre-cancerous change) of the tracheobronchial epithelium. These changes are more frequent in those who have only smoked cannabis than in those who have only smoked tobacco. 50"
"It is estimated that 3–4 cannabis cigarettes daily are equivalent to 20 or more tobacco cigarettes per day in terms of the incidence of acute and chronic bronchitis and damage to the bronchial epithelium.143"
"There have been several case reports which strongly suggest a link between cannabis smoking and cancer of the aerodigestive tract (oropharynx and tongue, nasal and sinus epithelium and larynx). 51 101"
"Cannabis is antiandrogenic and cannabinoids, including THC, bind to androgen receptors.44 Chronic cannabis smoking appears to be associated with decreased sperm counts, decreased sperm motility and abnormal sperm morphology in animals and humans. 44 87 10"
"A retrospective study of 204 case-control pairs found a 10-fold increased risk of developing non-lymphoblastic leukaemia in the offspring of mothers who had taken marijuana during or just before pregnancy. This was followed by two other studies suggesting an increased risk of rhabdomyosarcoma and astrocytoma in the children of mothers who had used cannabis during pregnancy.51"


In short, cannabis smoke is AT LEAST as potentially dangerous/harmful as tobacco smoke. Frogs are very sensitive to chemicals in general, but also in the air since they "breathe" through their skin. If you want to be careful about your frogs' health and well-being, do not expose them to smoke of any kind.

You can smoke all you want, but don't claim that it CAN'T cause any health issues. The body of evidence is overwhelming in that it CAN.
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Paranoid? Because I'm being called juvinile for not erring on the side of caution like the "adults"?
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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
Frog Police?

That is SO amusing and SO paranoid Aaron.

s
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2015, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Those same drs. are the ones who knew there was a paper in the 30's on how MJ could make medicines cheaper, more effective and safer than any pharamceuticals? Most won't write a recommendation or even think it works. Are those the ones I'm supposed to take the advice of?

I'd agree there are better ways but each has it's advantage and disadvantage. Smoking releases terpenes and medicines that vaping doesn't. Medibles take hours to work and become stronger and last longer when processed thru the liver turning THC in to 11deoxy thc somethingorother. Smoking is quiker, more of a spike and you get all the meds that aren't destroyed it hits hard and stops pain quick. Vaping can leave CBD behind leading to a more paranoid racey experience. ETC, ETC, ETC.
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Originally Posted by Mavpa View Post
Also, for what it's worth... any doctor in the country writing prescriptions for medical marijuana will tell you not to smoke it. There's other ways to get where you're going that are healthier, which would indicate that smoke does have its downsides.
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Old 05-07-2015, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

I already know the answer, I may tell him or her about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZookeeperDoug View Post
Aaron, ask your barber wether smoke and MJ are bad for frogs, that will settle this....
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2015, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadrunner View Post
Those same drs. are the ones who knew there was a paper in the 30's on how MJ could make medicines cheaper, more effective and safer than any pharamceuticals? Most won't write a recommendation or even think it works. Are those the ones I'm supposed to take the advice of?

I'd agree there are better ways but each has it's advantage and disadvantage. Smoking releases terpenes and medicines that vaping doesn't. Medibles take hours to work and become stronger and last longer when processed thru the liver turning THC in to 11deoxy thc somethingorother. Smoking is quiker, more of a spike and you get all the meds that aren't destroyed it hits hard and stops pain quick. Vaping can leave CBD behind leading to a more paranoid racey experience. ETC, ETC, ETC.
It's hardly relevant to reference a paper from the 30's .. I'm not arguing with you, I agree with lots that you're saying but lots of times original research is considered out of date after about 15 to 20 Years.. 80 years is a little out of date
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2015, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

Ya, I never played well with others.
You'll eventually find out all your preconceived notions about pot smokers aren't true.

I'm not saying I'm being victimized(or could care less if I am as I don't see some guy bitching at me making me a vicitm), just pointing out a truth about this board. A bunch of people who fear things they can't "prove" or don't have experience with. Everyone here knows everything so why bother.

And where am I playing victim? And how did it come to this? Did I offend you?

See completely worthless to come here. Nothing but a clique protecting it's views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZookeeperDoug View Post
I see what you did there.

You're such a bully Scott! How DARE you disagree!

Anytime someone disagrees with Aaron, he plays the victim. Not very mellow for a self professed toker.

Roll a J, smoke a bowl, eat a brownie bro....
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2015, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Dart frogs in room with marijuana

If i missed anybody, don't feel left out. I only have so much time for, what seems to be, a bunch of people who like to point out I don't know what I'm talking about, juvinile, mad because I mention something to my barber?, and calling me for playing the victim card?
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