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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2007, 09:53 PM
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Default Trouble in Burma

As some of you may know I traveled to Burma a few years ago . My experience there was nothing but amazing . The people there ARE the most friendly anywhere I have ever traveled to . In a country where most all walk hand and hand (even guys ) it's hard but not to feel love on a much higher level experienced here in the states . Really made me take look inwards and have a new look on love for others .
On the flip side ...........all live in constraint fear of speaking their minds and hearts or opinions of a oppressive military force who will kill them or imprison them and family for life if they just speak of anything they can interpret as defiant .
Please take a moment to reflect on the freedoms we have here and sometimes take for granted , be grateful that our military force is not out to kill us but for our beliefs or lack of . And pray for love and peace for all who don't .
The last time Burma had a little uprising the military forces killed , more like murdered at least 2,000 peaceful monks and students . Not to undermined what China did at Tiananmen Square , but what the Burmese military did makes that look like a tea party !
And it looks like they are now on the verge of history repeating itself !

Darren
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:10 PM
 
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Sad to hear. And great point. Alot of us do take what we have for granted. But throughout history, Americans have worked very hard to have what we have. Alot of other countries just dont try as hard, or dont have the capability to put forth the effort needed to change their country.
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Old 09-29-2007, 02:45 PM
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Good point, thank you for your thoughts. Who would hurt a Buddhist monk??!! One of the few religions that hasn't tried to hurt or force itself on anyone.
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Old 09-29-2007, 09:38 PM
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Darren, it's so good to hear an American expressing empathy and appreciation for another culture. For the most part we are entirely self-focused and close-minded.

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Americans have worked very hard to have what we have. Alot of other countries just dont try as hard, or dont have the capability to put forth the effort needed to change their country.
I really can't agree with this statement. America has evolved so far from the ideals that it was based on, and short of the brave souls that volunteer for military service (not that I agree with everything that our military is sent to accomplish) the average American does relatively little to maintain freedoms or to affect social change. And how can you blame a society for not having the arms/manpower to revolt against an unjust political system?
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Old 09-29-2007, 11:01 PM
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And how can you blame a society for not having the arms/manpower to revolt against an unjust political system?
Not to mention they DONT want violence. Non-violent protest takes a LOT more effort in my opinion.
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Old 09-30-2007, 03:45 AM
 
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Quote:
the average American does relatively little to maintain freedoms or to affect social change.
Unfortunately we have become a nation of sheep, I fear. Unwilling to take personal responsibility, and gladly relinquishing our most basic freedoms for the security of sucking on the government teat. Heck, many of us have already forgotten that we are a nation at war, too preoccupied with our video games and reality television, while our enemies both foreign and domestic plot their next move.

In Myanmar we are witnessing the stirrings of an oppressed people who have said "enough is enough" after 40 years of military rule. I pray God grant them the courage to persevere. And give our nation the courage to do likewise, lest we also become consigned as merely wards of the state, content with Hillary style health care, and pacified by the redistribution of wealth.

George
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Old 09-30-2007, 04:27 AM
 
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I agree with Nugular. And I'm a social scientist, so I know what I'm talking about. Most countries are too lazy to make their own freedom. Burma needs more hippies, not monks. Although usually skinny, hippies do acid and are harder to take down.

On a side note I'm a big fan of Burmese boxing. Actually I'm a big fan of any martial art that is based on reality and not assumptions/myths. Men hold hands in a lot of other countries, especially in countries where its not socially acceptable to show affection towards women. But its just so weird looking!

But on a serious note, its really interesting that the abuses are being captured by sattelites. No longer can human rights abuses be so easily covered up I guess.
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Who would hurt a Buddhist monk??!! One of the few religions that hasn't tried to hurt or force itself on anyone.
Civil disobedience is still disobedience. It's always easy to side with the Monks because they're "peaceful", but truth be told, you don't have to be wielding a gun to piss the government off and be in the way of a 30 mph tank.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skronkykong
I agree with Nugular. And I'm a social scientist, so I know what I'm talking about. Most countries are too lazy to make their own freedom.
An interesting hypothesis. As one who is always looking for additional data, perhaps you would be so kind as to direct me towards scientific articles containing data that support this contention, perhaps even ones authored by yourself.

The history of the world, even in recent times would seem to contradict this statement. Examples being the struggle in South Africa, ouster of the British in India, the Palestinian-Israeli conflict (both sides), the Vietnamese resistance to French and American occupation, resistance to Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe, the wave of democracies that swept South America replacing military governments, and yes even Burma. There are many more examples, some with fast clock speeds and others measured over decades. Oftentimes one bad form of government is replaced by another and yet as time goes by, they too will fail.

I've often wondered how many Americans today would be willing to brave guns and tanks, armed only with their courage and sense of right, in order to fight for their freedom. The civil rights movement did in the 60s but that seems like an era from ancient history in the context of today's America.

Bill
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:15 PM
 
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Bill,

I am willing to pick up arms and defend my rights. I will not stand for our rights being stripped away.

Dane,

You forgot to quote the part about "Throughout History.......etc....." Therefore making my statement correct. Dont just take the parts you want to hear. Ya, now Americans take alot for granted and dont do much to help us keep the freedoms we have. But many of us do work hard and vote and follow politics closely so we can act when needed. So dont come down on my statement, for it is TRUE.
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Old 10-01-2007, 05:35 PM
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Nugg,

It's not a question of Americans being willing to take up arms. Very few countries have the dubious distinction of possessing enough guns to arm every man, woman and child and so they are oftentimes faced with nonviolent protest as their most effective weapon. Fairly powerless in the short run but powerful in the long run.

When I see criticism from Americans about lazy foreigners unwilling to 'fight' for their freedom, I ask the question as to how many Americans would brave armed troops with only their courage...no guns, no weapons...just force of will. Precious few I suspect.

Bill
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Old 10-01-2007, 06:45 PM
 
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Bill,

I see. I misunderstood you. Fully agree with you there. My first statement left that out. My apologies. It would be very hard to defend your rights without physical power to back it up. You can't fight bombs and guns with knifes and swords. Your post has definately changed my view there. I see your point and that not alot of other countries can afford to overthrow their dictator or whatever gov. they have. Let alone find enough guns to make a difference.
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:26 PM
 
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To elmoisfive: I don't really like reading and facts, ect. Most of my data comes from the gut. I think in the long run my gut is more powerful than my brain. Now that I am no longer an adolescent I've noticed it growing over time. This size incresae compels me to respect its authority.
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skronkykong
To elmoisfive: I don't really like reading and facts, ect. Most of my data comes from the gut. I think in the long run my gut is more powerful than my brain. Now that I am no longer an adolescent I've noticed it growing over time. This size incresae compels me to respect its authority.
As long as you remember your gut is close to your a$$ you'll do just fine :twisted:

Bill
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
You forgot to quote the part about "Throughout History.......etc....." Therefore making my statement correct. Dont just take the parts you want to hear.
Sorry, I took your statement to mean "Throughout History (from conception to the present)..." And excepting the revolutionary war and the war of 1812, America hasn't fought many wars to directly preserve national independence. I do consider Pearl Harbor to have been a direct threat to America, and a reasonable instigation for our public participation in WWII, but a number of the conflicts that we have been involved in could be considered Imperialistic. Of course there was the civil war, but I doubt you want to include internal conflicts. If so, you may want to also take Manifest Destiny into account. And do keep in mind that the US is a relatively young nation.
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Old 10-02-2007, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
I ask the question as to how many Americans would brave armed troops with only their courage...no guns, no weapons...just force of will. Precious few I suspect.
Truer words never spoken, my friend. I hate seeing people always boasting American pride when they form their opinion of the country they live in on that country's media. Travel a bit. You might see America doesn't have the freedoms you all think it does. Try Czechoslovakia, for instance. Might open your eyes :shock:

As for the Manifest Destiny, I hope you weren't defending it. It's a buzz word historians invented to justify the US' capitalistic roots and greed in history -- the prospect that we have a God given right to conquest everything in the West is just as ludicrous as considering "some" of what the US has done as "imperialistic". Look up Halliburton. It's happening TODAY. And a guy who shot someone in the face with a shotgun is still getting checks from them. It's our VP.

But, I still don't understand where you got the idea that other countries "dont try as hard" nuggular.
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
As for the Manifest Destiny, I hope you weren't defending it.
I hoped it would have been clear that I was inserting it as a period of shame in American history. I consider it a rediculous ideology. Some would argue that it coincides with Darwinian evolution, though..."We conquer because we can."
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Old 10-02-2007, 07:47 AM
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Okay good. I misread it then. Jumped to the conclusion because I haven't heard the word since highschool.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:54 AM
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Chany's has like 10million in stock with Halliburton. Emperialistic businesses and business practices only work when there are proper checks and balances to keep them honest, fair, and accountable. It's very convinient that a big corp like Halliburton snuggles so close in bed to the only power strong enough to stop corruption.

Governments should allow capitalistic freedom and free market trade but protect the people from gross missuse of social economic powers. People live so much better when allowed to persue life without restriction from harsh governments.

I hope our government doesn't continue down the socialist path where people want stability and security over freedom, prosperity and religion.
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Old 10-02-2007, 01:07 PM
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Who care's about burma we have Paris Hilton.
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Old 10-02-2007, 06:46 PM
 
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Yeah Britney just had her kids taken away! And for what? You know, I'm a social scientist and its event like this that make me start wondering about our freedom. If America was truely free how could the government take away Britney's kids? And for what? Shaving her head? Well I'm sorry government, but its called FREEDOM. You can't take away a citizen's children just because you don't like her haircut (or lack of one). Damn governments always poking its head where it doesn't belong. Like even in churches! How the hell do they think they have the right to tell me I can't handle whatever serpents I want to in my own church?! I'm an adult. I can make my own decisions without the government's help thank you very much.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:01 PM
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okay, the government did on a good thing on there part for taking britney's kids away. Number one, it wasnt because of her haircut, but because she snorts lines of cocaine in front of her children, she pops antidepressants like its her job, shes never home with them because shes always out partying in LA, she has been in and out of rehab a ridiculous amount of times, and yeah, the list goes on. How would you feel if you had a mom who snorts cocaine right in front of you and just doesnt care at all about your safety or health? Yeah Britney hired someone to take care of that, but the body guard even quit after seeing how much she abused her children. So THANK GOD someone took her kids away from her. She's absolute white trash and deserved every bit of it. Her kids definitely deserve a better life than that. Maybe when she straightens out a bit, she can somehow get them back, but at the moment they are better off somewhere else. And wow that was really really off topic.
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Old 10-02-2007, 08:42 PM
 
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I don't know. I just think its not the government's job to be taking children away from their parents. They should just let the market work it out.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
It's a buzz word historians invented to justify the US' capitalistic roots and greed in history
VERY VERY few historians try to justify manifest destiny as anything but what you said....nor did they "invent" the term. "Manifest Destiny" was a contemporary ideology, and its used by most (Ive never had any professors nor met any historians who truly believed in it) as simply a label. Its not a buzz word.... Its like referring to the "gilded age" or the "pax romana", neither being what they are named.
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:51 PM
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I shouldn't have said historians. Contemporaries is more like it. You're right.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/buzzword

It almost sounds like what you said, "Its like referring to the "gilded age" or the "pax romana", neither being what they are named." Calling something what it isn't. BS pretty much. That's what I was after. An excuse for having more territory and power and what-have-you.

Shronkykong -- stop calling yourself a social scientist. Makes yourself look bad for thinking her kids were taken away over a haircut.
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:24 PM
 
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My title is up to me! Freedom! America! Bed, Bath, and Beyond!
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Old 10-03-2007, 09:08 PM
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I just thought I'd chime in with a few of my thoughts.

I think it's ironic how we say that soldiers are out there "preserving the American way of life" or "protecting our freedom" and that nonsense. Even if Al Qaeda could launch an attack on US soil a few times a month, they wouldn't be able to take away our "freedom," and the only change to our way of life would be an increase in fear. I say it's ironic, because we constantly attribute these tasks to soldiers fighting in foreign areas, when the real men and women these tasks should be attributed are the police, who are unfortunately necessary in maintaining law and order.

Coming back to Burma, I think it's kind of crazy how we can justify sending men and women to die in Iraq, when there really wasn't any threat or legitimate reason to invade on the pretense of "spreading democracy," despite the fact that the populace just wasn't ready for democracy. And then, when we've got serious human rights violations in Burma (or the active genocide in various parts of the world), from where the population is actively protesting an unjust government and is greatly in favor of democracy, and we don't even consider sending troops to help.

As for the issues with Britney, while REALLY off topic, it's the role of the government to protect its citizens. In this case, it's not the right of the government to take away Britney's children, but instead, to take Britney's children away from a harmful situation. And while I haven't been following the story (why the hell anyone would cover (and watch) this is beyond me, it's not my business and it has no place on the news, esp. in this capacity), aren't the children going to their father? It's common practice to take children from unfit parents; unfortunately, it doesn't happen nearly as often as it should.
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Old 10-04-2007, 01:47 AM
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Im also sorry I helped lead this off topic.

I agree with you Peter, but its all economic. Burmas anti-"democratic" policies are "overseen" by the fact that the junta is actively exporting the regions resources, especially the natural gas. Were they not so willing to do business, Im sure the world would be much more likely intervene...

And I will never say Sadam was a good leader, but there were/are so many places in the world (BURMA, Darfur, Somalia, to name a few) that need INTERNATIONAL help far more than Iraq did (though it needs it now).

Just my opinion.
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Old 10-04-2007, 04:10 AM
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Peter, I'd hate to have portrayed myself as one of those celebrity gossip zealots, because I'm not. But the Britney thing is difficult to ignore considering it's in the news more often than the good news from Iraq (giving the impression nothing GOOD happens there). Don't act like you don't know -- when the whole Paris thing in jail went down, it was dominating the news more than big things to happen in Iraq, including a major job shift in the line of command over the Marine forces in the middle east occupation. I didn't want to know about it, but even Fox News (it's not news...) was talking about Paris more than how great conservatives are.

As someone who used to pleasure himself to a young, successful Britney, I was just crushed she became the spokesperson for White Trash and everything Hollywood. But that's okay. I have shifted my attention to a Hayden Panatierre, who has good prospects methinks :lol: :lol: It's the only reason I watch Heroes anyways, haha.
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